Resume

[kathyj]

I need some advise from the wonderful engineers here!

Let me explain: My husband is currently waiting for his PE exam results (AGAIN, 4th attempt). He was laid off in Oct 2009 and has not had a single offer for employment since then. Since he bagan his job search 14 months ago, he has only had about 6 in-person interviews and appx 10 phones interviews after sending out close to 2,000 resumes all across the country. The feedback he has received from the very few companies that gave him any were "you're over qualified", "you have earned more money in the past than this job will ever pay" and "PE is required". He has 16 years experience and the last 8 years was as Sr. Project Manager (land development). He has only worked for 2 companies; one for 3 years in Water Resources and the other for 13 years in Land Development. I'm thinking there MUST be something wrong with his resume to only get this few calls. I have thought about getting his resume rewritten by someone that knows the engineering field. What do you think? Would that help? Is there anyone that you would recommend for resume services that won't charge an arm and a leg? Of course he is feeling like he should get into a different line of work!

Thanks for any help/advise you can give and good luck to you all who are waiting for exam results!

 

[Eddierizzle]

From what I've been hearing the job market in GA is terrible for engineers right now especially in Land Development. Has he considered relocating? He might find better luck in TX. We are one of the states that didnt get hit too badly.

 

[kengineer]

Hi KathyJ,

Your husbands situation is nearly identical to mine, same years of expeience, became a PM, waiting to pass the PE, ect. The only difference is that I've been looking since earlier this year and I did more structures management than land. I have a question though, was your husband a Sr PM for an engineering firm or did he work for a contractor, developer, owner's rep? I ask, because it plays a part in my answer.

 

[kathyj]

From what I've been hearing the job market in GA is terrible for engineers right now especially in Land Development. Has he considered relocating? He might find better luck in TX. We are one of the states that didnt get hit too badly.

Yes, and we would relocate anywhere, with or without relocation assistance. He has literally applied in every state in the US, even over seas and the caribbean. Everyday I search the job postings on Indeed, Monster, Career Builders, Jobfox, and anywhere else I can find them. The crazy thing is we send his resume for every kind of job you can think of; not just engineering jobs. The only ones that have ever responded have been in his field of work but again, no offers. He has applied for everything from entry level to management too. A few weeks ago I thought he was going to get an offer after they narrowed the candidates down to 4 but then he wasn't chosen. Never got any feedback from them as to why but we think it was because of the commute. It was about 2 hrs from our house and even though hubby told them that wasn't an issue they brought it up at least 3 times during the interview.

Actually he did get an offer I completely forgot about. A company he worked for in Water Resources does disaster relief for FEMA during hurricanes. He was hired as part of the disaster Cadre but because no hurricanes hit the US he was never activated and deployed. He even got Federal Security Clearance and that hasn't helped either.

 

[kathyj]

Hi KathyJ,
Your husbands situation is nearly identical to mine, same years of expeience, became a PM, waiting to pass the PE, ect. The only difference is that I've been looking since earlier this year and I did more structures management than land. I have a question though, was your husband a Sr PM for an engineering firm or did he work for a contractor, developer, owner's rep? I ask, because it plays a part in my answer.

Bless your heart too!

He worked for a small engineering firm (about 50 employees), he did everything in under the sun except stamping.

 

[YellowJacketEnvE]

I need some advise from the wonderful engineers here!
Let me explain: My husband is currently waiting for his PE exam results (AGAIN, 4th attempt). He was laid off in Oct 2009 and has not had a single offer for employment since then. Since he bagan his job search 14 months ago, he has only had about 6 in-person interviews and appx 10 phones interviews after sending out close to 2,000 resumes all across the country. The feedback he has received from the very few companies that gave him any were "you're over qualified", "you have earned more money in the past than this job will ever pay" and "PE is required". He has 16 years experience and the last 8 years was as Sr. Project Manager (land development). He has only worked for 2 companies; one for 3 years in Water Resources and the other for 13 years in Land Development. I'm thinking there MUST be something wrong with his resume to only get this few calls. I have thought about getting his resume rewritten by someone that knows the engineering field. What do you think? Would that help? Is there anyone that you would recommend for resume services that won't charge an arm and a leg? Of course he is feeling like he should get into a different line of work!

Thanks for any help/advise you can give and good luck to you all who are waiting for exam results!

I'm sorry to hear about your husband's situation. I've been lucky to survive four layoffs at a small firm in Florida, but I have a lot of friends looking for work. The one thing I keep hearing from them is that everyone looks the same to interviewers. A resume tweaked for engineering may be a good way to stand out from the crowd.

As for places to look for work, Florida firms hardly have enough work to go around, and some are still going out of business, so I would avoid looking here... At least around the Tampa, Orlando, Polk County area.

Here's hoping for good news soon.

 

[pmblair]

I dont think its his resume.

Firms are looking for very specific qualifications/ experience right now. I see openings where they want 10 years of transportation bridge design on federal and state projects and a masters in environmental engineering with a P.E , stuff like that.

And because of the economy there are people out there with the exact experience and qualifications that they want..... I have only seen one maybe two opening that actually fit my experience and qualifications exactly......

If you look at the openings completely you can see that they are being super detailed on what they want...

I quit looking and just excepted my 20k under paid job with travel, and loss of my health care plan ;(

The economy is slowly picking up in two three years this wont be an issue.....

 

[kathyj]

I dont think its his resume.
Firms are looking for very specific qualifications/ experience right now. I see openings where they want 10 years of transportation bridge design on federal and state projects and a masters in environmental engineering with a P.E , stuff like that.

And because of the economy there are people out there with the exact experience and qualifications that they want..... I have only seen one maybe two opening that actually fit my experience and qualifications exactly......

If you look at the openings completely you can see that they are being super detailed on what they want...

I quit looking and just excepted my 20k under paid job with travel, and loss of my health care plan ;(

The economy is slowly picking up in two three years this wont be an issue.....

Sorry to hear that about your job pmblair; looks like many engineers are in simular situations. You are absolutely correct about firms being very specific in their search....I see it everyday in job postings.

Our concern is if Land Development doesn't pick, we will be out of money. I'm working 3 jobs and in about 2 months we will have to dig into the 401k. Before he was laid off we knew the company couldn't keep him forever and his pink slip would come sooner or later so we started saving more money (which has been a real blessing) just in case it took several months to find a job. Little did we know that more than a year later he would still be unemployed! I had read to expect 1 month for every 10k you earn to find another job but I promise you, he didn't make $140k /yr! We pray that IF he passes it will increase his odds of getting a job....any job!

 

[Eddierizzle]

I hope your husband passes the PE, I know what it's like to be unemployed so I hope he finds work soon. But definitely have him check in Texas. I'm a second time PE test taker and hopefully God willing will be the last time taking the exam.

 

[ErichB]

This topic has certainly attracted a lot of attention (based on the visitors viewing this topic.) Because not only does it pertain to PE licensure, but it also pertains to a serious issue that hits most of us (if not, all) close to home.

Kathy, I was wondering regarding the companies that have offered him interviews and have said that he was "overqualified" that was it possible to negotiate the salary with them (i.e. a pay cut?) Also, if the old companies your husband has worked for in the past are still around, could he possibly be able to work for those companies, especially as a contractor?

Also, has your husband been doing a lot of networking with other professionals in his field? This board, as well as LinkedIn would be a great start!

I hope my ideas help, as I do wish the best for your husband.

 

[St_Kentucky]

Kathyj, it would not hurt to have the resume redone. It seems that most job openings in KY are geared toward either entry-level recent grads or toward a specialized skill set, but occasionally employers will go in a different direction if they find a candidate they love. Unfortunately, I noticed several unpolished items on the resumes during the last rounds of interviews my office conducted. Needless to say, these things impacted the final hiring decision.

 

[navyasw02]

Have you tried going to a headhunter? Maybe they'll have some ins and be able to both tweak and promote his resume more than he can by himself. Maybe the other problem since he's sent out 2000 resumes as you say, is that he's not tailoring his resume towards the job he's applying for. Sometimes, he may have to water down or even omit things just to get a foot in the door which can be discussed later at an interview.

 

[pmblair]

I dont think its his resume.
Firms are looking for very specific qualifications/ experience right now. I see openings where they want 10 years of transportation bridge design on federal and state projects and a masters in environmental engineering with a P.E , stuff like that.

And because of the economy there are people out there with the exact experience and qualifications that they want..... I have only seen one maybe two opening that actually fit my experience and qualifications exactly......

If you look at the openings completely you can see that they are being super detailed on what they want...

I quit looking and just excepted my 20k under paid job with travel, and loss of my health care plan ;(

The economy is slowly picking up in two three years this wont be an issue.....

Sorry to hear that about your job pmblair; looks like many engineers are in simular situations. You are absolutely correct about firms being very specific in their search....I see it everyday in job postings.

Our concern is if Land Development doesn't pick, we will be out of money. I'm working 3 jobs and in about 2 months we will have to dig into the 401k. Before he was laid off we knew the company couldn't keep him forever and his pink slip would come sooner or later so we started saving more money (which has been a real blessing) just in case it took several months to find a job. Little did we know that more than a year later he would still be unemployed! I had read to expect 1 month for every 10k you earn to find another job but I promise you, he didn't make $140k /yr! We pray that IF he passes it will increase his odds of getting a job....any job!

If he passes, he can freelance on the side. Just one job in the low millions billed hourly or on a percentage can yield significant income.

There is money for people who can sign and seal! If he passes he has to realize he is a CIVIL Engineer not just Land development...

I have started making contacts inside and outside of my usual field, Structural Design consultant. Add have had some very good feedback. Window and door frame design for Miami n.o.a's, light gauge store fronts up north in new york, college baseball stadiums aluminum bleachers.... Most through contractors and manufacturers that dont like the engineers they work with and are willing to toss me small jobs to see how it goes.

 

[nmh0408]

I need some advise from the wonderful engineers here!

Let me explain: My husband is currently waiting for his PE exam results (AGAIN, 4th attempt). He was laid off in Oct 2009 and has not had a single offer for employment since then. Since he bagan his job search 14 months ago, he has only had about 6 in-person interviews and appx 10 phones interviews after sending out close to 2,000 resumes all across the country. The feedback he has received from the very few companies that gave him any were "you're over qualified", "you have earned more money in the past than this job will ever pay" and "PE is required". He has 16 years experience and the last 8 years was as Sr. Project Manager (land development). He has only worked for 2 companies; one for 3 years in Water Resources and the other for 13 years in Land Development. I'm thinking there MUST be something wrong with his resume to only get this few calls. I have thought about getting his resume rewritten by someone that knows the engineering field. What do you think? Would that help? Is there anyone that you would recommend for resume services that won't charge an arm and a leg? Of course he is feeling like he should get into a different line of work!

Thanks for any help/advise you can give and good luck to you all who are waiting for exam results!

[/quo

First of All God Bless You for what you are doing for your husband!

"Resume" is very important. He needs to tailor it to fit the job posting, I would suggest that you rephrase some of the job requirements and insert them in the resume as part of his past experience, provided he can prove this experience during the interview. The idea is that the resume is your key to an interview; you need to make sure your resume passes the HR people to the hiring manager, and the HR people who are usually have NO experience in engineering and they only look for key words to recommend a resume to the hiring manager.

In addition to a good resume as a way of finding a job, networking is VITAL.

 

[kathyj]

This topic has certainly attracted a lot of attention (based on the visitors viewing this topic.) Because not only does it pertain to PE licensure, but it also pertains to a serious issue that hits most of us (if not, all) close to home.
Kathy, I was wondering regarding the companies that have offered him interviews and have said that he was "overqualified" that was it possible to negotiate the salary with them (i.e. a pay cut?) Also, if the old companies your husband has worked for in the past are still around, could he possibly be able to work for those companies, especially as a contractor?

Also, has your husband been doing a lot of networking with other professionals in his field? This board, as well as LinkedIn would be a great start!

I hope my ideas help, as I do wish the best for your husband.

Well the last company to tell him he was over qualified was Racetrac (I hope it's ok to mention the company name) which is a chain of convenience stores/gas stations. He had applied for an engineering position with them and low and behold they called and said that position had been filled but they have a PM position they wanted him to apply for. So, he went online, completed the application, submitted his resume and waited. A few days later, had a brief interview with the HR person (who said they had over 1,000 applicants for the job). She asked about his previous salary which he indicated was $85k but he was more interested in finding a good "fit" for both him and the company rather than worried about salary. About two weeks later she called him and said they had chosen someone else because the starting salary for that position was only about $50k and they prefer someone with 5 to 7 years experience. He told her again that he isn't as concerned about the pay as he is with finding a great company to work for. What I don't understand is WHY DID THEY BOTHER ASKING HIM TO APPLY?!!!! Although $50k isn't near what he would like, it's more than unemployment of $300/week and he would have worked his booty off for that company!

He has worked for just two companies in the past. His first engineering position with company A, worked there for 8 years. He left to work for company B in water resources to gain experience, stayed 3 years then company A wanted him back. Went back to company A for 5 years and was laid off from there. They are still struggling to keep their doors open so no opportunity there. Company B, however, is much larger and they did hire him this summer for their Disaster Cadre to work on FEMA disasters during hurricanes but no hurricanes hit the US and therefore, he was never activated or deployed. He stays in touch with them for other opportunities but nothing has come about so far.

I can't say he does a lot of networking, other than calling and emailing old contacts/friends in engineering. I actually found this board by accident a few months ago and have been on it every day since then . He hasn't had much free time lately; we have a rental house that we have empty and he is having to paint and do repairs to try and get it rented. Before that, he spent months studying 10 to 12 hours a day (for the PE) almost every single day. He does network with a large group of men from our church every week, which is specifically for unemployed & under employed, past & present. And he is a member of Linkedin.

I'm sure many people think I am exaggerating when I say we have sent over 2k resumes, but honestly if I had kept count I would say it's much more than that. I was keeping track of the number sent out up until March which at the time was over 1200, and I finally stopped, thinking why bother? There hasn't been a single day that I haven't sent out at least 3 to 5 resumes since he was laid off. Some days I will send out 20 or 30, just depends on what I can find on the internet. I bet some of the larger firms around here, like URS, CH2M Hill, Parsons, etc. have received his resume 100 times each! Someone suggested tayloring his resume to each job. That's something that we haven't tried yet.

As for a headhunter, haven't had much luck in that area either. He has talked to several but they never follow thru with what they say they will do. He had one last year offer to help for a small fee of only $8,000 (which now we are kicking ourselves wishing we had taken his offer).

Hubby's resume is my biggest concern. If there is anyone on this board who is good with resumes and has a few minutes to read it for a critique (maybe to pass the time while waiting for test results, lol), I would so much appreciate it!! An extra set of eyes can never hurt!

You guys are great and you're giving me some very useful information.

 

[ErichB]

Kathy,

I'm glad to hear that he does have a LinkedIn account. Has he kept his profile up to date often? Also, has he joined up with professional organizations on LinkedIn, such as NSPE (National Society of Professional Engineers) and ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers)? Being involved with those professional organizations would certainly help.

Also, I'm willing to take a look at your husband's resume and offer some suggestions, if no Civil Engineers on this board are willing to volunteer. Of course, you can omit all the personal info out. Just contact me via Private Messaging on this board.

 

[roadsTOrome]

I was laid off around the same time, probably from the same company. Your husbands story and experience sounds familiar. Luckily I found engineering work after 8 months with a local government in Atlanta and I have no PE...yet. Don't give up, he could be hired tomorrow. I have an engineer friend who was hired in Atlanta a few months ago. I also know one of my neighbors who is fresh out of engineering school who just got hired in New Orleans. Things are picking up. Things I think help are

1. A kick ass cover letter tailored for each company you are seeking to work for. Copy and paste stuff from the job posting into the cover letter along with some information that shows you know something about the company.

2. If you dont think your one of the first to submit your resume, dont submit at all. Online applications are a waste of time. Snail Mail or Email the hiring manager at the company directly.

3. Network Network Network! being involved with professional organizations puts you in the face of hiring managers. I know some organizations reduce the cost of luncheons etc. for unemployed members.

 

[kengineer]

Hi KathyJ,
Your husbands situation is nearly identical to mine, same years of expeience, became a PM, waiting to pass the PE, ect. The only difference is that I've been looking since earlier this year and I did more structures management than land. I have a question though, was your husband a Sr PM for an engineering firm or did he work for a contractor, developer, owner's rep? I ask, because it plays a part in my answer.

Bless your heart too!

He worked for a small engineering firm (about 50 employees), he did everything in under the sun except stamping.

It’s good he stayed within the engineering profession. My experience has been a bit different. 3 years ago I began work as a PM with a GC, then as an Owner’s rep. I was a PM for an A&E firm for 5 years and also did structures for 6 years. Despite the fact that I’ve been pursuing a Master’s Degree in Engineering for the last few years, most engineering jobs I apply for, I’m seen as an outcast.

Eng firms I have interviewed with discount my ‘other’ experience despite the fact I coordinated A&E’s, provided field solutions, successfully managed multi-million dollar projects and saved my clients millions of dollars. The eng firms almost see it as a betrayal of the profession. The only question I get is, ”So why do you want to be an engineer again?” The fact is, I never stopped, but that isn’t the perception. Hopefully passing the PE will change that.

I had my resume looked at and tweaked by the resume writers at Ladders.com. Although I think they gave some good advice, it hasn’t helped with this market. In some ways, it makes it sound so polished I get the, “I don’t think we can afford you” response. I changed some of it after 3 months of zero results. Honestly, with some research and avoiding all of the common and cliché resume phrases, it’s possible to get a similar result without the investment.

One company I interviewed with received over 4,000 applications for one job. At that point, it’s a matter of luck rather than what your resume says. I’ve tried calling, e-mailing HR directors, delivering resumes in person (wearing a suit and tie), tweaking resumes and cover letters for different jobs (ie: highlighting I’m a pilot for Airport Design Engineer jobs and my grad course work in the same) following up on leads from business journals and building permit records and everything in between.

I’ve been able to make some money on a short-term contract basis with a few companies which is a bit of a trend right now. I also invested a serious amount of time and effort into the PE this last time since I didn’t study before and haven’t taken it in at least 3 years. I will also graduate with the MSEng Degree in May. In the meantime, I read articles and journals to stay fresh on what’s going on in the industry and look for the bright spots.

I just wanted to share my story to offer a bit of perspective from a different side of things and let you know it probably isn’t him, or his resume. It’s just tough right now with the economy. It sounds like you have been supportive of him and that helps a lot. I often have friends or family think that there must be something wrong with my search, approach, resume, etc. It’s depressing because until this past year, I was never laid off from a job and never had a problem finding a job that I enjoyed.

I think once your husband gets the PE, it should open a lot of doors and make things a bit easier. Some of my engineering friends with PE’s were able to find work relatively quickly, 3 to 6 months. I think with the PE, salary expectations will also be a bit more aligned with his history.

Good luck, and hopefully we all pass the PE this year and move on to better days!

 

[austinsung]

Hi KathyJ,
Your husbands situation is nearly identical to mine, same years of expeience, became a PM, waiting to pass the PE, ect. The only difference is that I've been looking since earlier this year and I did more structures management than land. I have a question though, was your husband a Sr PM for an engineering firm or did he work for a contractor, developer, owner's rep? I ask, because it plays a part in my answer.

Bless your heart too!

He worked for a small engineering firm (about 50 employees), he did everything in under the sun except stamping.

It’s good he stayed within the engineering profession. My experience has been a bit different. 3 years ago I began work as a PM with a GC, then as an Owner’s rep. I was a PM for an A&E firm for 5 years and also did structures for 6 years. Despite the fact that I’ve been pursuing a Master’s Degree in Engineering for the last few years, most engineering jobs I apply for, I’m seen as an outcast.

Eng firms I have interviewed with discount my ‘other’ experience despite the fact I coordinated A&E’s, provided field solutions, successfully managed multi-million dollar projects and saved my clients millions of dollars. The eng firms almost see it as a betrayal of the profession. The only question I get is, ”So why do you want to be an engineer again?” The fact is, I never stopped, but that isn’t the perception. Hopefully passing the PE will change that.

I had my resume looked at and tweaked by the resume writers at Ladders.com. Although I think they gave some good advice, it hasn’t helped with this market. In some ways, it makes it sound so polished I get the, “I don’t think we can afford you” response. I changed some of it after 3 months of zero results. Honestly, with some research and avoiding all of the common and cliché resume phrases, it’s possible to get a similar result without the investment.

One company I interviewed with received over 4,000 applications for one job. At that point, it’s a matter of luck rather than what your resume says. I’ve tried calling, e-mailing HR directors, delivering resumes in person (wearing a suit and tie), tweaking resumes and cover letters for different jobs (ie: highlighting I’m a pilot for Airport Design Engineer jobs and my grad course work in the same) following up on leads from business journals and building permit records and everything in between.

I’ve been able to make some money on a short-term contract basis with a few companies which is a bit of a trend right now. I also invested a serious amount of time and effort into the PE this last time since I didn’t study before and haven’t taken it in at least 3 years. I will also graduate with the MSEng Degree in May. In the meantime, I read articles and journals to stay fresh on what’s going on in the industry and look for the bright spots.

I just wanted to share my story to offer a bit of perspective from a different side of things and let you know it probably isn’t him, or his resume. It’s just tough right now with the economy. It sounds like you have been supportive of him and that helps a lot. I often have friends or family think that there must be something wrong with my search, approach, resume, etc. It’s depressing because until this past year, I was never laid off from a job and never had a problem finding a job that I enjoyed.

I think once your husband gets the PE, it should open a lot of doors and make things a bit easier. Some of my engineering friends with PE’s were able to find work relatively quickly, 3 to 6 months. I think with the PE, salary expectations will also be a bit more aligned with his history.

Good luck, and hopefully we all pass the PE this year and move on to better days!

I really understand your circumstance for now. I was out of market for 14 months until this March. During these harsh time, I keep told myself, the only way can back to the market is licenses. Therefore, I spend 8 hrs a day to prepare PMP for 4 months. Thank God~~~I passed. One month after, I got offer and back to the market again. Therefore, don't give up. I will pray for you.~~Since we have the same background, if you are interesting in pursuit PMP please let me know. I might give you some experiences.

Good Luck, and hope all of engineers here can passed PE exam this time.

 

[kathyj]

We are so anxious about the results!! If hubby doesn't pass this time I have no doubt that he will remain unemployed for another six months. However, if he does pass, I think there is a good chance a job offer will come soon. There is a job opening locally that fits his experience EXACTLY (except the PE requirement) for which he has applied and they told him to let them know if he passes. Maybe an offer if he passes???