**Rant**

[frazil]

WTF?!? I wrote
I'm so pissed. I don't even know how to respond. Here are my options I think:

1. Ignore his suggested changes (unless they actually make sense), and no longer include him in the project.

2. Make his changes and let it go... he's going to retire in a few years anyway

3. Make some changes, include him on the project and talk with him about how his comments made me feel.

I hate option #3. Is there any other option I'm overlooking??

 

[ktulu]

How important is he to the project? Is there someone else that can perform what his duties were going to be? Are you forced to have him on the project?

If you can adequately handle the project without him, I would explore that option. You do not need him "taking over" your project, which would probabaly happen. You're confident in your abilities; go it alone or form your team without him...

ktulu

 

[Guest]

There is a senior manager type in my group that heads up all of the 'work' related tasks. He came into the job three years ago stating, "I am not here to work on projects but to manage people." I am serious - he TOTALLY said that. He takes the same approach in reviewing outgoing correspondence and reviews as the person reviewing your proposal.

Depending on how receptive you think your co-worker/senior engineer can be, I might try out option #3. I would do this ONLY if I thought there was the potential for a positive outcome. Otherwise, I think you are left with simply mollifying the dinosaur until he retires.

Another thought here though, does this person's opinion/review matter? Is he providing these comments/review as a supervisor or simply a peer? If it is a peer-review process and you feel that he has over-criticized the merits of your proposal I would discuss with your supervisor or whomever is going to be responsible for giving the 'green light' to proceed with the project.

I tend to be cautious with approaching managers with style/critique issues on my work because I realize that these are items that are 'personal' choice rather than based on technical merit. I too become enraged because it makes me feel belittled. Most of the time I just don't bother because the issues just aren't important enough to get into a pissing contest. As it stands, I don't have much recourse because this attitude is pervasive up the chain of command, so I have opted to just leave when the time is right.

I think as long as this one person (dinosaur) is the problem, you can find an uncomfortable truce. However, if you find that attitude persists in your workplace, you obviously have bigger issues than one reviewer. You need to consider that as well when deciding the best course of action.

:2cents:

JR

 

[Dark Knight]

WTF?!? I wrote up a short proposal this morning. It's not a big deal. I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but I think it read well and got the message across -- basically saying the work I would do, the timeframe and the cost.
I sent it a co-worker (senior engineer) to look it over. I have no idea why he feels the need to drill it into my head that I'm "new" here and not an expert on anything. I've done several similar projects and I feel pretty confident that I know what I'm doing. Instead of just letting me handle it, he has to completely re-write my proposal (just based on semantics, not technical content), say (in front of others) "what you stated for your objectives was totally vague" (even though his only change was to cut out half of it), and then make several comments insinuating that I shouldn't kid myself into thinking I know anything, "This is a tough project for someone new because you can't just plug numbers into an equation and get an answer". For the record, no one else I work with does this, and a lot of others have issues with this guy.

I'm so pissed. I don't even know how to respond. Here are my options I think:

1. Ignore his suggested changes (unless they actually make sense), and no longer include him in the project.

2. Make his changes and let it go... he's going to retire in a few years anyway

3. Make some changes, include him on the project and talk with him about how his comments made me feel.

I hate option #3. Is there any other option I'm overlooking??

Trust yourself. If you were happy and satisfied with your document to the hell with him and do it the way you want to do it.

There is no need to disrespect you like that. If he is a PE so are you.

It is your project. You don't need him and obviously he needs you to try to feel superior just because he has more experience.

I say, well, I can't really write here what I am thinking but it was something like saying to him: Fudge you!!!!

Sorry for the answer but I have been in your shoes and know how you feel.

 

[frazil]

It is your project. You don't need him and obviously he needs you to try to feel superior just because he has more experience.I say, well, I can't really write here what I am thinking but it was something like saying to him: Fudge you!!!!

Luis, that's exactly what I felt like saying! Instead I vented in here which made me feel better anyway without gaining me a sworn enemy.

Thanks for the replies. I know it's tough to respond to rants like this on here. You don't really know the history or the project, plus you're only hearing one side.

Actually what happened was a client needed help and wrote to a couple people here he knew (Dinosaur included - that's a perfect description). One of the other engineers he wrote to replied and said "Frazil has done similar projects. She is the one who can help you." So I contacted the guy, talked to him about the project, said I'd write up a proposal.

Dinosaur then came into my office and said "So, this is what we need to do..." He doesn't need to work on this project, but he likes his name to go out on everything, and for everyone to know him as the expert. There are several people in our office who refuse to work with him anymore for exactly this reason. The thing is he's a really good engineer. I would like to keep working with him, but sometimes I can hardly stand it. It's getting to a point where I'm going to have to talk to him or else I'm just going to blow up -- and I'm hoping he'll just retire before either of those happens.

 

[Undertaker]

I will "pile drive" him for ya' young lady. Now, seriously, invite him to lunch and buy him ensure. He will get the message. Nah. That wouldn't be good. I have no good advice to give. I am not a diplomatic. You are probably doing the right thing. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Road Guy]

nothing says your a dickhead like exlax in the coffee on the day of a big meeting in the office!

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

You don't really know the history or the project, plus you're only hearing one side.

Yeah, I'm sure his take is that he's a kindly old man trying to mentor younger staff, and you're a cold spirited hotshot upstart who won't listen to anyone.

 

[singlespeed]

nothing says your a dickhead like exlax in the coffee on the day of a big meeting in the office!

I like the way you think lusone:

Frazil

Sounds like you're in a tough spot - hope it all works out for you. And if you do take RG's advice, let me know how that turns out!

 

[frazil]

I like that idea too. He's leaving tomorrow for a 3-day camping trip. I would like something that takes effect at the furthest point from the trailhead.

 

[Fudgey]

Sounds like you're in a tough spot - hope it all works out for you. And if you do take RG's advice, let me know how that turns out!

let me know if you need help retelling the tale!

 

[NCcarguy]

The engineering business is a strange business, There's always two sides to stories like this, but I have found over the years that for the most part, some people HAVE to have some way to maintain their position in the pyramid. Let's face it guys, The ONLY reason I'm even here was to find help on passing the exam.....guess what, I don't have a 4 year degree, and yet, I've gotten closer than many with a degree to passing this test. Some would like to argue my ability to even be able to take the test, but the fact is, I can do most of what a college graduate can do. SO.....What would seperate me, or anyone else from the others, and in many cases, it's just the ability to DIS-AGREE with what others are doing. I'll share a similar story, recently, me and another engineer got into an argument over the minimum depth of a catch basin, I told him that I wanted to use 3.25' which is straight out of the NCDOT standards, well he wanted to use 3.5', and since I'm not yet a PE, we used 3.5'...then just last week, I was doing a "Preliminary" design, and I wanted to use 3.5', just to give myself a little wiggle room in case I needed it....and you can guess what he argued with me about....I HAD to use 3.25'. So once again, he get's his way.....NEITHER time would either solution be right, or wrong....he just wanted to be the one to decide....it's just that simple, the guy is obviously showing that he's still the master, without that, he has NO advantage over you, it's probably something that you will deal with your entire career, you just have to realize the reason, and if it's worth getting upset about.????????

 

[VA_Env_Engr]

Since we're all ranting here, I'd even extend the type of behavior NC pointed out to senior managers and not just engineers. I have had my manager ask me for a "special report" one day, does a complete 180 and says to change the whole f'ing report the next day. And to top it all off, couple of days later asks me why my project was behind schedule. All I can think is WTF? I think I am learning to deal with it (does "Serenity Now" work??), but its easier said than done.

 

[kevo_55]

Being able to let things go and not stooping to the level of dumb ass co-workers is one of the best gifts one could have.

When I was young and full of fire, I argued the hell out of everything. I've learned since then.

Just my $0.02

 

[maryannette]

Well, I might be able to write the book on A@#HOLE bosses and coworkers from a female engineer's point of view. I've been dismissed twice related to my gender. Once because I refused to sign an acceptance of less benefits than the men in the company. The second because the boss's wife didn't like me. Both of these are ancient history. I've been happily married for 27 years, and in those years, I've been accused of more relationship crap than you can imagine. (Good thing my husband trusts me and supports me.) There have been many times when I wanted to kick myself in the butt for not choosing a "female" career, like teaching or nursing, but I'm an engineer. It's a tough road, but it's better than it used to be. My experience is that the ones who give you the most trouble are the ones who feel threatened or insecure. No easy answers. I wish there were. You have to maintain professional conduct, but use every trick in the book. It helps to have quick comebacks. Don't be afraid to put somebody in his (or her) place with professionalism. Make the most of the good relationships. I am currently working with the best group of engineers that I've ever worked with. I'm the only female, but I'm just one of the guys. I've had a lot of nightmares, too, but it's better than it used to be. One word of advice (from Mom): You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. If you get caught up in one-upsmanship, it will bring you down. Let the jerk look like a jerk. Good luck.

 

[frazil]

So to get promoted around here a panel of senior engineers reviews your work and determines whether you're qualified to move up. I go before the panel this Fall, and guess who I just found out is on it?!?

Needless to say, I'm glad I didn't opt for the exlax.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

^ Yes, he might give you a 'crappy' review if that were the case.

 

[TouchDown]

Needless to say, I'm glad I didn't opt for the exlax.

If you don't get promoted - kick him in the JIMMY!!!

 

[Dark Knight]

Needless to say, I'm glad I didn't opt for the exlax.

You will always have that option. For payback or fun will always be an option.

 

[Road Guy]

you know we could probably have a whole sub forum for female issues in the eng world.

I was really really good friends with a female co-worker who left me for her husband and 2 kids and moved to Florida! (yeah that sounds so weird)

And when I say left me, I mean our job, we hung out a lot, we both hated a lot of the same shit at our eng company, hated most of the management, overhead staff, etc,

She knew her shit though, I still call her today to check my numbers on stuff to be honest from time to time.