PE and Money

[Dark Knight]

Oh...I

Folks, there is no money in the PE. It is how it is and that is the bottom line. If you are doing it for the money you are up for a rude awakening. Saying something different is just a sales pitch.

I respectfully disagree. There is great money to be made in engineering. And the work is very rewarding IMO. It's all about what you think you are worth and convincing your employer of this accordingly. You're only worth what you settle for in getting paid by your employer. Want a higher wage? Then you have to go get it and make it happen! I've more than doubled my salary since I graduated from my undergraduate program. And that did not happen by staying put in my first engineering position.

Oh!!!!! I had double my salary too. But the PE, contrary to what I believed first, had nothing to do with it and with the movements I made.

About the money, the only way it can happen in my line of work is by moonlighting since we have pay ranges where I work. Whatever I do will not go over Y. I have had the chance to do work on the side but it required me to work long hours during the weekends and/or work at home during the week. Am past that threshold when I had the energy to do that. 20k extra a year sounds great but sleeping 4 hours a day is not an option for my 50 y/o body.

From where I see it, an engineering career would be enough to live OK. If you want to become rich, it is not for you.

 

[Ship Wreck PE]

^^ Dang I thought I was rich??

 

[knight1fox3]

Folks, there is no money in the PE. It is how it is and that is the bottom line. If you are doing it for the money you are up for a rude awakening. Saying something different is just a sales pitch.

I respectfully disagree. There is great money to be made in engineering. And the work is very rewarding IMO. It's all about what you think you are worth and convincing your employer of this accordingly. You're only worth what you settle for in getting paid by your employer. Want a higher wage? Then you have to go get it and make it happen! I've more than doubled my salary since I graduated from my undergraduate program. And that did not happen by staying put in my first engineering position.

Oh!!!!! I had double my salary too. But the PE, contrary to what I believed first, had nothing to do with it and with the movements I made.

About the money, the only way it can happen in my line of work is by moonlighting since we have pay ranges where I work. Whatever I do will not go over Y. I have had the chance to do work on the side but it required me to work long hours during the weekends and/or work at home during the week. Am past that threshold when I had the energy to do that. 20k extra a year sounds great but sleeping 4 hours a day is not an option for my 50 y/o body.

From where I see it, an engineering career would be enough to live OK. If you want to become rich, it is not for you.

I'll agree to disagree. And perhaps it's a regional thing because I am in the same line of work as you and can get the high pay grade without working crazy hours or over-time. No weekends required either.

And it also depends largely on your definition of "rich". To me rich is having the ability to purchase anything we want or take a trip whenever we desire and not having any major debt to worry about. I don't need to make millions to be happy. We live in a nice neighborhood with a less than 15-yr old home, drive nice cars (that are paid for), and still have the flexibility to make purchases or do as we please. A lot of this would not have been possible if it weren't for my engineering profession and obtaining my PE license. :thumbs:

 

[cajone5]

Dark Knight -- I think you're misrepresenting a few things.

First, no one said you'd "get rich" as an engineer. That does not mean, however, that you will not have the opportunity to live a comfortable life that is far above average. You can make good money as an engineer. Very good. Comparing it to the top fraction of a percent of people and balking at the fact that it doesn't match up seems silly to me. You can look at ANY profession and come to the same conclusion. However, on average, engineers have the potential to achieve pay that places them in the top 10-20%.

Second, if you think your PE is meaningless in the equation, you're wrong again. It does several things. It demonstrates a level of competence. It allows you to take professional and legal responsibility for your work. It elevates your perceived status and marketability in the industry. On and on. Saying it's worthless is silly. That's similar to the folks that claim it's worthless because "you're the same today (with your PE) as you were yesterday (without your PE) so why do you deserve a raise?"... Seriously? Let's extrapolate that thought... if you're always the same tomorrow as you are today and always the same today as yesterday then do you ever deserve a raise? By that logic, no. But again, it's short sighted and doesn't look at the whole picture.

Finally, on the bashing of the licensing agencies, I can at least sympathize here... they definitely cost a lot more than they're worth. However, I think they're necessary to prevent illegitimate folks from practicing, to ensure folks stay current with their continuing education, to maintain a database of this information, etc. They may arguably be overpaid for these services but they are by no means unnecessary.

As someone with a PE, SE, MS and (in progress) Ph.D. I can assure you I'm intimately familiar with red tape, opportunity cost and relative worth of degrees, licenses, titles and letters after your name. They are oftentimes much more "work" for most people than they are worth, but that does not by any means indicate that they're worthless.

 

[NJmike PE]

wow NJ...even working for the state my salary is higher.

I'm giving them 12 months, well now 9. 12 months to show me that the economy has turned around, that we are getting busy, that we are making money. All things that i have been hearing since the beginning of the year, and more often as of late. At the end of 2014, if I have not received the bonuses promised, or a raise to show me that they value me as an engineer, then buh-bye.

 

[knight1fox3]

^ now you're cooking with peanut oil!!!!

 

[NJmike PE]

^ now you're cooking with peanut oil!!!!

Yumm, peanut oil. Peanut oil =deep fried goodness

 

[NJmike PE]

Oh, and as luck would have it, I ran into an old geotech professor this morning. He is the Senior VP of the geotech dept at his firm and lives in my town. We talked for a few mins and he told me if I was ever interested in making a move, he would have a spot open for me. It would be a nice jump, from a small private consulting firm, to a larger corporate firm.

 

[Krakosky]

Did you run into him at starbucks?

 

[NJmike PE]

no. on my salary, starbucks is out of my price range. Dunkin'

 

[Krakosky]

Dunkin is better anyways.

 

[NJmike PE]

agreed. starbucks always tastes burnt to me

 

[Dark Knight]

Dark Knight -- I think you're misrepresenting a few things.

First, no one said you'd "get rich" as an engineer. That does not mean, however, that you will not have the opportunity to live a comfortable life that is far above average. You can make good money as an engineer. Very good. Comparing it to the top fraction of a percent of people and balking at the fact that it doesn't match up seems silly to me. You can look at ANY profession and come to the same conclusion. However, on average, engineers have the potential to achieve pay that places them in the top 10-20%.

Second, if you think your PE is meaningless in the equation, you're wrong again. It does several things. It demonstrates a level of competence. It allows you to take professional and legal responsibility for your work. It elevates your perceived status and marketability in the industry. On and on. Saying it's worthless is silly. That's similar to the folks that claim it's worthless because "you're the same today (with your PE) as you were yesterday (without your PE) so why do you deserve a raise?"... Seriously? Let's extrapolate that thought... if you're always the same tomorrow as you are today and always the same today as yesterday then do you ever deserve a raise? By that logic, no. But again, it's short sighted and doesn't look at the whole picture.

Finally, on the bashing of the licensing agencies, I can at least sympathize here... they definitely cost a lot more than they're worth. However, I think they're necessary to prevent illegitimate folks from practicing, to ensure folks stay current with their continuing education, to maintain a database of this information, etc. They may arguably be overpaid for these services but they are by no means unnecessary.

As someone with a PE, SE, MS and (in progress) Ph.D. I can assure you I'm intimately familiar with red tape, opportunity cost and relative worth of degrees, licenses, titles and letters after your name. They are oftentimes much more "work" for most people than they are worth, but that does not by any means indicate that they're worthless.

It all depends on how do you look at it and it is obvious that our experiences are different.

I do have a tough time buying the level of competency concept. Once I hear this quote: "You can be a PE and still be an idiot". Hold your horses everybody. Am just quoting and not calling names here. That being said...that quote are very true. Have known PEs that are completely clueless. Have known non PEs that are very competent.

I believe a professional proves himself with his work. Period. But I guess we need a metric, or something, to hold professionals accountable for their work.There comes the PE status for engineers. Of course, and this never fails, this need for the metric then brings someone who turns it into a very profitable business. At the end of the day is all about the money.

 

[YMZ PE]

Oh, and as luck would have it, I ran into an old geotech professor this morning. He is the Senior VP of the geotech dept at his firm and lives in my town. We talked for a few mins and he told me if I was ever interested in making a move, he would have a spot open for me. It would be a nice jump, from a small private consulting firm, to a larger corporate firm.

Nice! I'm biased, but geotech is a great field to get into, and all the better if you're working for a large firm. An added perk is all the jokes you can intelligently make about penetration tests, jacking, skin friction, swelling, oh the places your mind will go.

 

[Lungshen]

NJ mike, make the jump. Seriously.

I worked for a small consulting firm 8-15 over the years for 12 years. Start as EIT at 29k and hit the ceiling at 65k after I have been EOR signing drawing for over 7 years. Oh, no bonus for couple years before I finally decided to left. It wasn't the money that made me left but with the new employer a larger firm of 150+ employees I am making 25% more base salary and the bonus was close to 10% of the gross annual. I would have never make this kind of salary by staying in a small 15 people consulting firm.

The trade off is that larger firm lay people off left and right when losing work. Small firm you have the job security. But I never regret the move and never look back.

 

[NJmike PE]

Oh, and as luck would have it, I ran into an old geotech professor this morning. He is  the Senior VP of the geotech dept at his firm and lives in my town. We talked for a few mins and he told me if I was ever interested in making a move, he would have a spot open for me. It would be a nice jump, from a small private consulting firm, to a larger corporate firm.

 Nice! I'm biased, but geotech is a great field to get into, and all the better if you're working for a large firm. An added perk is all the jokes you can intelligently make about penetration tests, jacking, skin friction, swelling, oh the places your mind will go.

YMZ, even though I'm a drainage guy right now, I've always had aspirations to play in the dirt. While working and going to school, I found it easy to stick with the WR&E field, but I really enjoyed my geotech classes. In fact I found them all to be the easiest for me. I always thought that some day I would make the switch from WR&E to geo. Maybe it's sooner than later.

Besides, who doesn't like a penetration test for a drilled shaft...

NJ mike, make the jump. Seriously.

I worked for a small consulting firm 8-15 over the years for 12 years. Start as EIT at 29k and hit the ceiling at 65k after I have been EOR signing drawing for over 7 years. Oh, no bonus for couple years before I finally decided to left. It wasn't the money that made me left but with the new employer a larger firm of 150+ employees I am making 25% more base salary and the bonus was close to 10% of the gross annual. I would have never make this kind of salary by staying in a small 15 people consulting firm.

The trade off is that larger firm lay people off left and right when losing work. Small firm you have the job security. But I never regret the move and never look back.

I hear you. I'm aware of the perks/downfalls. For now, I'm staying put. I have some financial obligations to this firm, I borrowed money and am in the final year of the payback. Plus, I want to see that the job market is improving. It should only help my chances. However, increases in salaries and bonuses are def eye openers.

 

[YMZ PE]

YMZ, even though I'm a drainage guy right now, I've always had aspirations to play in the dirt. While working and going to school, I found it easy to stick with the WR&E field, but I really enjoyed my geotech classes. In fact I found them all to be the easiest for me. I always thought that some day I would make the switch from WR&E to geo. Maybe it's sooner than later.

That was me when I graduated in 2006. I made the jump after a couple years working in water resources to get my MS in geotech, and I never regretted it. The field experience is so rewarding.

One thing to consider if you decide to pursue the new job is that geotech is a field where you'll be strongly encouraged to get your MS. There's a lot to learn, particularly in seismic hazard analysis, and in fact the few geotechs I've worked with who didn't have graduate degrees were relegated to much less sexy work, doing things like drilling coordination and simple shallow foundation jobs. You might want to ask your professor if he expects you to pursue a grad degree.

 

[NJmike PE]

YMZ, even though I'm a drainage guy right now, I've always had aspirations to play in the dirt. While working and going to school, I found it easy to stick with the WR&E field, but I really enjoyed my geotech classes. In fact I found them all to be the easiest for me. I always thought that some day I would make the switch from WR&E to geo. Maybe it's sooner than later.

 That was me when I graduated in 2006. I made the jump after a couple years working in water resources to get my MS in geotech, and I never regretted it. The field experience is so rewarding.

One thing to consider if you decide to pursue the new job is that geotech is a field where you'll be strongly encouraged to get your MS. There's a lot to learn, particularly in seismic hazard analysis, and in fact the few geotechs I've worked with who didn't have graduate degrees were relegated to much less sexy work, doing things like drilling coordination and simple shallow foundation jobs. You might want to ask your professor if he expects you to pursue a grad degree.

Good to know. I know he got his, and if I remember correctly he encouraged it as well.

 

[Jdsmith PE]

Its been two and a half months since receiving my PE results and I am now at a new firm with a 27% raise. The PE is not meaningless!!!!

 

[NJmike PE]

HFS!!! It's a JDS siting. I thought you had retired from this board.