P.E. versus Masters Degree

[IlPadrino]

A PE is required for a job I interviewed for at the DoD.

That's what makes the Civil Engineer Corps and NAVFAC such an interesting organization - you can't be an O-5 in the Civil Engineers Corps without a PE or an RA. NAVFAC brings Real™ Engineers to contingency construction, something you don't usually see with the ACOE.

 

[Freon]

I spent six months on loan to the ACOE during Iraqi Freedom. Our main job was to rebuild the oil infrastructure to pre-war levels. I worked with several civilian PEs, all good people, but they were civil engineers. Buid a dam, contract a runway - they were great. But they were a little lost in the oil patch. The uniformed talent in that organization was a little light on education. We had a total of four uniformed "degreed engineers", and no PEs (It was before I became enlightened)

An important point to remember is that most military engineer units are not staffed with officers who are degreed engineers (Sapper is an exception). Being a PE in those situations can be fun at times! But USN Construction Battalions are staffed with mostly degreed engineers as officers as well as several PEs.

Freon, P.E. and Alumni of the Infantry

 

[Capt Worley PE]

A PE is required for a job I interviewed for at the DoD.

Granted, it was a long time ago, but when I worked at the DoD the emphasis was on the MS. They even paid for me to get mine.

People who got PEs (they were very rare) got laughed at because it didn't get them anywhere with the gov.

Times change and winds shift, I suppose.

 

[kevo_55]

there are a lot things why an indivudal cant be proud of their MS,1. They took an "easy" MS, MBA or without thesis.

2. Their thesis topic is very easy, or their professor had made everything ready for them.

3. They took an MS not inline with their major.

4. Their thesis did not contribute for the good of their profession or dont have new application in real world.

Have a look on how to achieve these two, MS takes a long time and years to achieve, while you can study PE in as short as 6 months.

In principle, I must agree. But.... an MS isn't the end all be all.

My question is if a BS+MS=BS+PE, what happens if you take more PE exams? The MS may take two years and ONE PE exam may take 6 months, but what about three PE exams?

I would argue that if you can take and pass more than one PE exam, you've got more than a masters degree.

Just my :2cents:

 

[Vinsanity]

I remember there was one project that involves a specialist and I was hired to do the job because one of my researches in Graduate studies on Structural Engineering was applicable, and an ordinary PE without this expereince or Graduate studies wont qualify to do the job and my paper was about "Seismic Retrofitting of Reinforced Concrete Members", this involves acual modelling of scaled framed structure and specimens and they were subjected to lateral forces on the beam column joints to cyclic loading, till failure. Measures to design structural members were carefully considered after the outcome of my research and apply it it an actual real world structure.

 

[kevo_55]

^^ That might be true in one case, but can you generate reliability factors for every building you design? Would that be cost effective?

Also, who would seal the cyclic testing report? A PE would still have to seal it. If the ordinary PE who hired you sealed the report himself I would argue that he is practicing outside of his area of expertise.

 

[Vinsanity]

In principle, I must agree. But.... an MS isn't the end all be all.
My question is if a BS+MS=BS+PE, what happens if you take more PE exams? The MS may take two years and ONE PE exam may take 6 months, but what about three PE exams?

I would argue that if you can take and pass more than one PE exam, you've got more than a masters degree.

Just my :2cents:

Actually kevo, I have a PE license in my home country ( written it and pass) and I got it at a very young age of 21 years old, after that I pursue MS and Structural Engineer in my home country.

Now, I'm here in North America and I'm trying to get that US PE and SE License or PhD if I have more time, and this is just an add on to my own achievements and dreams and as a professional, if I could get that then that's fine, if not, no worries for me.

 

[Vinsanity]

^^ That might be true in one case, but can you generate reliability factors for every building you design? Would that be cost effective?
Also, who would seal the cyclic testing report? A PE would still have to seal it. If the ordinary PE who hired you sealed the report himself I would argue that he is practicing outside of his area of expertise.

Yes, and yes. Yes I sealed it, our seal as Structural Engineer back is "DRY SEAL" not rubber stamp with ink. I have designed almost all types of structures there, from Concrete to Timber to trusses to 3-D trusses, DAMS, high rise etc. I have been practicing it for 12 years before moving in North America.

 

[kevo_55]

^^ No worries Vinsanity. If you go for the PE here in the US you'll get it. Be proud of your achievements!

 

[mudpuppy]

My question is if a BS+MS=BS+PE, what happens if you take more PE exams? The MS may take two years and ONE PE exam may take 6 months, but what about three PE exams?
I would argue that if you can take and pass more than one PE exam, you've got more than a masters degree.

Interesting point.

Are you talking about three related exams, (say PE Civil/Structrual, SEI and SEII)? Or three unrelated PE exams (say, PE Civil, PE Electrical and PE Chemical)?

 

[kevo_55]

^^ Well that would be something if one could take and pass the Civil, Electrical, and Chemical PEexams.

... But I was speaking about the PE: Civil, Structural I, and Structural II.

 

[gymrat1279 PE]

I have both my MSCE and PE. I am very proud of them both, I worked hard to get them. I don't think either of them really helped me all that much for work, but the PE did get me a promotion a year earlier so I guess that was more important for work. I work in the electric utility industry. It was a personal goal of mine to get both and I'm very happy I accomplished that goal. I'm now thinking about an MBA... we'll see, the jury is still out right now.

I think I have also inspired other people to get their PE now. One person took it in April and I think 2 or 3 more are taking it either in October or next April.

 

[Geotech.PE]

Here is my story. Sorry, I posted it on Electrical Engineering.

 

[ron1218]

there are a lot things why an indivudal cant be proud of their MS,1. They took an "easy" MS, MBA or without thesis.

2. Their thesis topic is very easy, or their professor had made everything ready for them.

3. They took an MS not inline with their major.

4. Their thesis did not contribute for the good of their profession or dont have new application in real world.

Have a look on how to achieve these two, MS takes a long time and years to achieve, while you can study PE in as short as 6 months.

In principle, I must agree. But.... an MS isn't the end all be all.

My question is if a BS+MS=BS+PE, what happens if you take more PE exams? The MS may take two years and ONE PE exam may take 6 months, but what about three PE exams?

I would argue that if you can take and pass more than one PE exam, you've got more than a masters degree.

Just my :2cents:

Based on my work experienced and working for a major City in US (govt employee), this argument is like "Apples and Oranges"

In order to pass a PE one must have.

1. BS Eng'g degree + 4 years of Professional Eng'g experience = qualify for PE exam.

or

2. Bs Eng'g degree + MS + 3 years of Professional Eng'g experience = qualify for PE Exam.

(Having said MS = 1 year of experience, having said this, it may not be true for R&D because MS weights more. In my job there are even 4 PhD guys who are teaching in the university but they don't get credit for the degree. Now, if they work for R&D or teaching they are valued more).

 

[ipswitch]

I have a Master's and a P.E. and it does give you an edge in specializing. I specialize in the structural design of bridges in NY. I was thinking about qualifying my Master's degree and experience by passing the SE even though I know it's not necessary.

 

[Peele1]

Do both the MS and PE, preferably when your employer will pay for it.

I did my MS as a grad assistant, which paid for the tuition, and then worked for 12 years, and found a boss who liked certifications. They paid for 4 certifications, then the PE. I have two kids now, so, no more time for school, study or certifications, just the continuing education for the certs and license.

If you are single and no kids, then do both, ASAP.

The MS can be done with less intensity - you can do one class at a time. You have to master (to passing at least) ALL of the subjects of the PE to pass.

The MS never expires and never requires additional education or annual fees. The PE does.

 

[DaveW]

In Architecture, the requirement for a Master's Degree is literally, not an issue of prestige or opening doors anymore. It's a set in stone requirement if you want be able to:

1.) Practice in any of the 50 states;

2.) Streamlined reciprocity

That is of course, if you get a Masters Degree that qualifies as a professional degree.

 

[DaveW]

My advice, is that for a P.E., you don't need a Master's Degree, unless you're an academic, or you want to move up a corporate ladder to a managerial position. If you want to run your own firm, you have to become good at running a business along with being competent in your discipline. There is nothing in Academia that will teach you how to run your own firm, unless you go take some business classes, but those courses rarely apply to running a small firm operation.

Most engineers get 4 year degrees, and develope their skills with experience, self study, and continuing education. All three of those are complementary, and you should get a good mix of that afterwards.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

^Engineering licensure is going the same way with the B+30 thing.

 

[DaveW]

^Engineering licensure is going the same way with the B+30 thing.

I'm sorry, could you elaborate on what a B+30 is. My guess is that it is a Bachelors + 30 Credit Hours to a Graduate Degree. Correct?