October 2019 Post Exam Wait Period - Welcome to the Suck

[squaretaper LIT AF PE]

Without double-checking, I have the total PE test takers listed on the pass-rates NCEES website as 16,062. My MDM exam was $250. Assuming the other exams are also $250, that is $4,015,500 dollars NCEES raked in.

I would like my results please.

We pay $350 in CA. Well, it's $250 for the exam fee and $100 for an "administration" fee.

 

[Will.I.Am PE]

Without double-checking, I have the total PE test takers listed on the pass-rates NCEES website as 16,062. My MDM exam was $250. Assuming the other exams are also $250, that is $4,015,500 dollars NCEES raked in.

I would like my results please.

Did you get a discount?!

My Geotechnical exam was $350. 

 

[RBHeadge PE]

Alright everyone. The control systems cut score meeting hasn't happened yet. That's going to delay the results a little bit. Please give me a few paragraphs to walk you all this process, what it means for the release, and why you should back away from the ledge.

Roughly every five+ years, each exam undergoes a review to determine that the subjects and questions in that disciplines exam matches what is actually happening in the real world. This is standard, and it helps keep the exam relevant to the profession. This process often results in new exam specifications and exam questions.

Further, it needs to be established how the new questions effect the cut score need to be determined. For pencil and paper exams, the exam is offered first to live to PE examinees. Those exams are scored, psychometrics performed, and issues with questions are recorded and passed along for review.

About a month later, a "cut score" or "standards setting" (interchangeable terms) is held. The meeting includes practicing PE's and SMEs in the field. The "membership" at the meeting is reflective of the actual PE community for that discipline. There are a lot (20+?) of engineers involved. It is typically a two day meeting. As I understand it: day one is people taking the exam; day two is self scoring and discussion. My understanding is they examine each question to find any issues, and more importantly, gauge what percentage of PEs in that discipline would get that question correct. Sprinkle in some other psychometrics, and that gives each question its value to the overall cut score.

I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, or mischaracterizing things a little bit, but this should give you a general idea of how it works. Don't ask me for further elaboration because I can't give it.

A few nuggets: The meetings usually abut a weekend, and usually one day is during the weekend. Weekday only meetings have happened too. Also, have you ever tried to get 20+ engineers from all over the country together for a meeting on short notice? it ain't easy.

Got at that? Great!

I'm sure most of you don't care about this level of detail, and are wondering why you should care. Let me explain further:

NCEES releases everything to the States at the same time. They don't do it piecemeal. That means that they need all exams scored and graded, all investigations complete, and all internal processes done before anything leaves the building. That goes for all PE pencil and paper exams, regardless of State, discipline, afternoon session, pass/fail.

There was one new exam in October 2019: Control Systems. For whatever reason, they have not held their cut score meeting yet. The PE results won't release won't take place until after that meeting has arrived at their conclusions. In the past, when cut score meetings are the long pole, the results come out about 1-4ish business days after the cut score meeting adjourns.

We know that the meeting hasn't taken place yet. So lets do this gedanken. Best case scenario, the meeting starts tomorrow, they finish Friday. That means that the results come out Monday or Tuesday. Sucks, but hey it could be worse. Now lets look at the worst case. They need two days plus two travel days; probably won't meet near a major holiday and I don't see it happening in January - so that makes the viable last day of the meeting around Dec 22.  That puts initial release at ~Dec 23/24. Merry Christmas everyone!  If we assume a January meeting, which would be cruel, and we get ~Jan 6/7.

So we get a range of Dec 9-Dec 23/Jan 7. Ouch. My guess is it that won't be that long. I don't think anyone has the appetite to draw it out that long. I would expect most people to know by Christmas.

The only thing I can confidently say right now is: No Earlier Than Dec 9.

It's sucks! I know what it feels like! I've been here. Twice! The first time was in Oct 2013 when Maryland was the last to release - a full THREE WEEKS after the initial release. The following year, October 2014 saw the longest wait for an initial release in the multiple choice era. It was awful and debilitating both times. I get it, its sucks! The name of this thread was not an accident. Sorry. It's not my fault, it's not the fault of anyone else on this website; nor anyone on your State boards, and certainly not the fault of anyone who you might communicate with at NCEES. Please be respectful and professional during this time. Do not take out your feelings on others. I've said this before and I'll say it again, you are taking this test to be a professional, so behave like a professional!

Trust me, it's bad, but in three months, most of you won't care. Roughly half of you will have two new letters after your name. All of you will have a funny story to tell. You can get through this. You all survived and conquered at least four years of engineering school. Most of you have worked for years in the real world and kicked it's ass. You wouldn't have gotten approval to sit for the PE unless you were strong enough to pass it. It's not over, you can get through this. You just gotta hold on a little bit longer! The reward is worth it.

In the meantime, in the interest of your sanity (and the happiness and security of your friends, family and co-workers) try not dwell too much on the exam. Spend time with friends and family, burn off stress at the gym, find a hobby, or better yet spend some time on the game threads; we could really use some new blood in the EB Mafia game.

Finally you really should post in the



We're almost at the record and need your help!

backup material

We discussed some of this on pages 7-8. @Chattaneer wrote up some bullet point takeaways.

• All questions are weighted the same when calculating your exam score.
  
• Each question is weighted differently when calculating the passing score.
  
• After each pencil-and-paper exam administration, every exam undergoes extensive statistical analysis to determine the minimum level of performance required for entry into the profession.
  
• When the analyses and reviews are completed, NCEES changes the answer keys as necessary. The passing score and final correct answers for each exam are then used to score all answer sheets. A percentage of the answer sheets are manually verified, and the results are compared to the machine score to ensure accuracy.
  
• Professional Activities and Knowledge Study (PAKS) is used to develop the exam specification, and according to NCEES: “The results of this online survey will be sued to update specifications for the exam, which is used throughout the United States for licensing purposes.” A survey design meeting precedes the PAKS meeting. The survey is sent to active PEs in that field, and the survey results informs the PAKS meeting.
  
• There is a question bank where questions are pulled to produce exam sessions.
  
• The passing score weight of each question is determined during an in-person meeting (committee and non-committee members in attendance).
  

 

[Aspiring_PE]

Can someone explain the relevancy of this control systems meeting and cutscore stuff? Ive been popping in and out all day and im not following on this one. 

What I gather they mention in the December 2019 News letter this:



You can find the full newsletter here: https://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/December-2019-LEx-web.pdf 

The above is on pg 5 column 1, second paragraph.

They usually put out dates in the newsletters when every meeting will be. However they never listed a meeting date in that newsletter or the October one for the standard-setting studies aka cut score meeting. In my opinion they were referencing in that paragraph the year 2020, probably the April 2020 exam, since they didn't list a meeting date. But I could be wrong. 

 

[TrussMe.Civil]

Alright everyone. The control systems cut score meeting hasn't happened yet. That's going to delay the results a little bit. Please give me a few paragraphs to walk you all this process, what it means for the release, and why you should back away from the ledge.

Roughly every five+ years, each exam undergoes a review to determine that the subjects and questions in that disciplines exam matches what is actually happening in the real world. This is standard, and it helps keep the exam relevant to the profession. This process often results in new exam specifications and exam questions.

Further, it needs to be established how the new questions effect the cut score need to be determined. For pencil and paper exams, the exam is offered first to live to PE examinees. Those exams are scored, psychometrics performed, and issues with questions are recorded and passed along for review.

About a month later, a "cut score" or "standards setting" (interchangeable terms) is held. The meeting includes practicing PE's and SMEs in the field. The "membership" at the meeting is reflective of the actual PE community for that discipline. There are a lot (20+?) of engineers involved. It is typically a two day meeting. As I understand it: day one is people taking the exam; day two is self scoring and discussion. My understanding is they examine each question to find any issues, and more importantly, gauge what percentage of PEs in that discipline would get that question correct. Sprinkle in some other psychometrics, and that gives each question its value to the overall cut score.

I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, or mischaracterizing things a little bit, but this should give you a general idea of how it works. Don't ask me for further elaboration because I can't give it.

A few nuggets: The meetings usually abut a weekend, and usually one day is during the weekend. Weekday only meetings have happened too. Also, have you ever tried to get 20+ engineers from all over the country together for a meeting on short notice? it ain't easy.

Got at that? Great!

I'm sure most of you don't care about this level of detail, and are wondering why you should care. Let me explain further:

NCEES releases everything to the States at the same time. They don't do it piecemeal. That means that they need all exams scored and graded, all investigations complete, and all internal processes done before anything leaves the building. That goes for all PE pencil and paper exams, regardless of State, discipline, afternoon session, pass/fail.

There was one new exam in October 2019: Control Systems. For whatever reason, they have not held their cut score meeting yet. The PE results won't release won't take place until after that meeting has arrived at their conclusions. In the past, when cut score meetings are the long pole, the results come out about 1-4ish business days after the cut score meeting adjourns.

We know that the meeting hasn't taken place yet. So lets do this gedanken. Best case scenario, the meeting starts tomorrow, they finish Friday. That means that the results come out Monday or Tuesday. Sucks, but hey it could be worse. Now lets look at the worst case. They need two days plus two travel days; probably won't meet near a major holiday and I don't see it happening in January - so that makes the viable last day of the meeting around Dec 22.  That puts initial release at ~Dec 23/24. Merry Christmas everyone!  If we assume a January meeting, which would be cruel, and we get ~Jan 6/7.

So we get a range of Dec 9-Dec 23/Jan 7. Ouch. My guess is it that won't be that long. I don't think anyone has the appetite to draw it out that long. I would expect most people to know by Christmas.

The only thing I can confidently say right now is: No Earlier Than Dec 9.

It's sucks! I know what it feels like! I've been here. Twice! The first time was in Oct 2013 when Maryland was the last to release - a full THREE WEEKS after the initial release. The following year, October 2014 saw the longest wait for an initial release in the multiple choice era. It was awful and debilitating both times. I get it, its sucks! The name of this thread was not an accident. Sorry. It's not my fault, it's not the fault of anyone else on this website; nor anyone on your State boards, and certainly not the fault of anyone who you might communicate with at NCEES. Please be respectful and professional during this time. Do not take out your feelings on others. I've said this before and I'll say it again, you are taking this test to be a professional, so behave like a professional!

Trust me, it's bad, but in three months, most of you won't care. Roughly half of you will have two new letters after your name. All of you will have a funny story to tell. You can get through this. You all survived and conquered at least four years of engineering school. Most of you have worked for years in the real world and kicked it's ass. You wouldn't have gotten approval to sit for the PE unless you were strong enough to pass it. It's not over, you can get through this. You just gotta hold on a little bit longer! The reward is worth it.

In the meantime, in the interest of your sanity (and the happiness and security of your friends, family and co-workers) try not dwell too much on the exam. Spend time with friends and family, burn off stress at the gym, find a hobby, or better yet spend some time on the game threads; we could really use some new blood in the EB Mafia game.

Finally you really should post in the



We're almost at the record and need your help!

backup material

We discussed some of this on pages 7-8. @Chattaneer wrote up some bullet point takeaways.

• All questions are weighted the same when calculating your exam score.
  
• Each question is weighted differently when calculating the passing score.
  
• After each pencil-and-paper exam administration, every exam undergoes extensive statistical analysis to determine the minimum level of performance required for entry into the profession.
  
• When the analyses and reviews are completed, NCEES changes the answer keys as necessary. The passing score and final correct answers for each exam are then used to score all answer sheets. A percentage of the answer sheets are manually verified, and the results are compared to the machine score to ensure accuracy.
  
• Professional Activities and Knowledge Study (PAKS) is used to develop the exam specification, and according to NCEES: “The results of this online survey will be sued to update specifications for the exam, which is used throughout the United States for licensing purposes.” A survey design meeting precedes the PAKS meeting. The survey is sent to active PEs in that field, and the survey results informs the PAKS meeting.
  
• There is a question bank where questions are pulled to produce exam sessions.
  
• The passing score weight of each question is determined during an in-person meeting (committee and non-committee members in attendance).
  

is the meeting date ever announced?

 

[RBHeadge PE]

Already done.  I'll report in if I get a response.

thanks

If one person is already doing it, then they should just follow up with an additional question. That way they do not get the same question a billion times.

agreee

Too late. Already sent a bunch of letters via Carrier Pigeon since I assume some of them will go off route... My apologies

This is also an acceptable means of communication

....you Muggle

Send owls if you have them.

I sent 6 letters via Raven as well.

Also acceptable means of communication.

p.s. maesters and engineers are kinds alike

Without double-checking, I have the total PE test takers listed on the pass-rates NCEES website as 16,062. My MDM exam was $250. Assuming the other exams are also $250, that is $4,015,500 dollars NCEES raked in.

I would like my results please.

Dude, don't go there. Just don't.

 

[LaTech033]

Alright everyone. The control systems cut score meeting hasn't happened yet. That's going to delay the results a little bit. Please give me a few paragraphs to walk you all this process, what it means for the release, and why you should back away from the ledge.

Roughly every five+ years, each exam undergoes a review to determine that the subjects and questions in that disciplines exam matches what is actually happening in the real world. This is standard, and it helps keep the exam relevant to the profession. This process often results in new exam specifications and exam questions.

Further, it needs to be established how the new questions effect the cut score need to be determined. For pencil and paper exams, the exam is offered first to live to PE examinees. Those exams are scored, psychometrics performed, and issues with questions are recorded and passed along for review.

About a month later, a "cut score" or "standards setting" (interchangeable terms) is held. The meeting includes practicing PE's and SMEs in the field. The "membership" at the meeting is reflective of the actual PE community for that discipline. There are a lot (20+?) of engineers involved. It is typically a two day meeting. As I understand it: day one is people taking the exam; day two is self scoring and discussion. My understanding is they examine each question to find any issues, and more importantly, gauge what percentage of PEs in that discipline would get that question correct. Sprinkle in some other psychometrics, and that gives each question its value to the overall cut score.

I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, or mischaracterizing things a little bit, but this should give you a general idea of how it works. Don't ask me for further elaboration because I can't give it.

A few nuggets: The meetings usually abut a weekend, and usually one day is during the weekend. Weekday only meetings have happened too. Also, have you ever tried to get 20+ engineers from all over the country together for a meeting on short notice? it ain't easy.

Got at that? Great!

I'm sure most of you don't care about this level of detail, and are wondering why you should care. Let me explain further:

NCEES releases everything to the States at the same time. They don't do it piecemeal. That means that they need all exams scored and graded, all investigations complete, and all internal processes done before anything leaves the building. That goes for all PE pencil and paper exams, regardless of State, discipline, afternoon session, pass/fail.

There was one new exam in October 2019: Control Systems. For whatever reason, they have not held their cut score meeting yet. The PE results won't release won't take place until after that meeting has arrived at their conclusions. In the past, when cut score meetings are the long pole, the results come out about 1-4ish business days after the cut score meeting adjourns.

We know that the meeting hasn't taken place yet. So lets do this gedanken. Best case scenario, the meeting starts tomorrow, they finish Friday. That means that the results come out Monday or Tuesday. Sucks, but hey it could be worse. Now lets look at the worst case. They need two days plus two travel days; probably won't meet near a major holiday and I don't see it happening in January - so that makes the viable last day of the meeting around Dec 22.  That puts initial release at ~Dec 23/24. Merry Christmas everyone!  If we assume a January meeting, which would be cruel, and we get ~Jan 6/7.

So we get a range of Dec 9-Dec 23/Jan 7. Ouch. My guess is it that won't be that long. I don't think anyone has the appetite to draw it out that long. I would expect most people to know by Christmas.

The only thing I can confidently say right now is: No Earlier Than Dec 9.

It's sucks! I know what it feels like! I've been here. Twice! The first time was in Oct 2013 when Maryland was the last to release - a full THREE WEEKS after the initial release. The following year, October 2014 saw the longest wait for an initial release in the multiple choice era. It was awful and debilitating both times. I get it, its sucks! The name of this thread was not an accident. Sorry. It's not my fault, it's not the fault of anyone else on this website; nor anyone on your State boards, and certainly not the fault of anyone who you might communicate with at NCEES. Please be respectful and professional during this time. Do not take out your feelings on others. I've said this before and I'll say it again, you are taking this test to be a professional, so behave like a professional!

Trust me, it's bad, but in three months, most of you won't care. Roughly half of you will have two new letters after your name. All of you will have a funny story to tell. You can get through this. You all survived and conquered at least four years of engineering school. Most of you have worked for years in the real world and kicked it's ass. You wouldn't have gotten approval to sit for the PE unless you were strong enough to pass it. It's not over, you can get through this. You just gotta hold on a little bit longer! The reward is worth it.

In the meantime, in the interest of your sanity (and the happiness and security of your friends, family and co-workers) try not dwell too much on the exam. Spend time with friends and family, burn off stress at the gym, find a hobby, or better yet spend some time on the game threads; we could really use some new blood in the EB Mafia game.

Finally you really should post in the



We're almost at the record and need your help!

backup material

We discussed some of this on pages 7-8. @Chattaneer wrote up some bullet point takeaways.

• All questions are weighted the same when calculating your exam score.
  
• Each question is weighted differently when calculating the passing score.
  
• After each pencil-and-paper exam administration, every exam undergoes extensive statistical analysis to determine the minimum level of performance required for entry into the profession.
  
• When the analyses and reviews are completed, NCEES changes the answer keys as necessary. The passing score and final correct answers for each exam are then used to score all answer sheets. A percentage of the answer sheets are manually verified, and the results are compared to the machine score to ensure accuracy.
  
• Professional Activities and Knowledge Study (PAKS) is used to develop the exam specification, and according to NCEES: “The results of this online survey will be sued to update specifications for the exam, which is used throughout the United States for licensing purposes.” A survey design meeting precedes the PAKS meeting. The survey is sent to active PEs in that field, and the survey results informs the PAKS meeting.
  
• There is a question bank where questions are pulled to produce exam sessions.
  
• The passing score weight of each question is determined during an in-person meeting (committee and non-committee members in attendance).
  

Thank you sir! very helpful.

 "Now we play the waiting game........... Ah, the waiting game sucks." - Homer

 

[VinceJones]

A few nuggets: The meetings usually abut a weekend, and usually one day is during the weekend. Weekday only meetings have happened too. Also, have you ever tried to get 20+ engineers from all over the country together for a meeting on short notice? it ain't easy.

Much appreciated. However it is difficult to understand what short notice you are referring to. I would imagine the board has known about the necessity of this meeting since the beginning of 2019, if not before that.

 

[pse19622]

Well that is unfortunate. Time to go do something else I guess.

 

[RBHeadge PE]

is the meeting date ever announced?

short answer: yes, always

long answer: In the past, the date is usually announced in the NCEES Licensure Exchange Newsletter, the month of or before the meeting. This is the first time I've seen them not announce a date for a cut score meeting relevant to the release of the results.

 

[TwistedLeague]

Live look at NCEES headquarters:

 

Live look at everyone waiting on results:

 

[RBHeadge PE]

Much appreciated. However it is difficult to understand what short notice you are referring to. I would imagine the board has known about the necessity of this meeting since the beginning of 2019, if not before that.

maybe, maybe not? While it all happens under the NCEES umbrella, it the PE exam committees in the relevant engineering society that does most of the scheduling and recruiting PEs/SMEs. Controls systems hasn't done one of these in a while, and there may not be much tribal knowledge of past lessons learned? It's the once/yr exams that tend to hold their cut score meeting later in the process. My guess is that the milestones creep on on them and they try to schedule it all last minute.

 

[enrique_nola]

short answer: yes, always

long answer: In the past, the date is usually announced in the NCEES Licensure Exchange Newsletter, the month of or before the meeting. This is the first time I've seen them not announce a date for a cut score meeting relevant to the release of the results.

Plot twist.  Thanks for the rundown RB.  Most underrated poster in this bih.

 

[Fisherman504]

Did you get a discount?!

My Geotechnical exam was $350. 

Yeah it's $350 in Louisiana.

 

[c0lb]

They need two days plus two travel days; probably won't meet near a major holiday and I don't see it happening in January

Sounds like time to start tracking flight increases to SC

 

[Civileng504]

Just called the number on NCEES website. They said the results will not be posted any time soon and that the wait period is 8-10 weeks 

 

[HopkinsReb P.E.]

Thank you sir! very helpful.

Hey, I almost went to La Tech!  Was going to try to walk onto the baseball team.  Ended up going to Ole Miss instead for scholarship money (not baseball.  Gave up on that) and to add a second degree in public policy.

 

[VinceJones]

maybe, maybe not? While it all happens under the NCEES umbrella, it the PE exam committees in the relevant engineering society that does most of the scheduling and recruiting PEs/SMEs. Controls systems hasn't done one of these in a while, and there may not be much tribal knowledge of past lessons learned? It's the once/yr exams that tend to hold their cut score meeting later in the process. My guess is that the milestones creep on on them and they try to schedule it all last minute.

Thanks for the additional details, it sounds like the folks holding up the ordeal will then be whoever the authority is on handing out the cut score for the Controls PE. Seems like it could be The International Society of Automation, but that's just a guess. Any Controls engineers out there who would have a better guess?

 

[VinceJones]

Thanks for the additional details, it sounds like the folks holding up the ordeal will then be whoever the authority is on handing out the cut score for the Controls PE. Seems like it could be The International Society of Automation, but that's just a guess. Any Controls engineers out there who would have a better guess?

Just confirmed it is indeed ISA:
https://ncees.org/exams/exam-preparation-materials/exam-prep-materials/

 

[Orchid PE]

I'm calling Dec 5th.