Net Neutrality

[Ble_PE]

And if you don't believe that the Government should regulate the internet a la China, then how can you agree it is okay for big corporations to regulate what websites you visit.  Hold them to the same standard, and they won't do it through Capitalism, there's only a handful of these nearly monopolistic internet providers in most areas.  Otherwise, I just think you guys don't know what you're talking about.  You hear the word "regulation" and you think "that's wrong!", but you can't honestly be as intelligent to have your PE license and also not agree with Net Neutrality.

Here's a tip for ya: Don't insult folk's intelligence when you don't agree with them, especially with your second post. Your first post was constructive (albeit condescending) and had good content and then you had to follow it up with this. 

 

[Road Guy]

I'm thinking about going into the admin control panel and exercising little net neutrality myself

 

[matt267 PE]

but you can't honestly be as intelligent to have your PE license and also not agree with Net Neutrality.

Na, you don't need to be intelligent to have a PE license. 

 

[knight1fox3]

I don't want Comcast to limit my speed while I watch DirectvNOW service because I don't subscribe to Comcast TV.  Do you???

Let's play devil's advocate here for a bit based on what others have posted above that I tend to agree with. Let's say you are being throttled to some extent (with the current mandate being over-turned) with Direct TV NOW, yet your stream isn't impacted enough to become interrupted. Will that really matter to you and/or will you even notice unless you are that closely monitoring your connection speed continuously (via WireShark or equiv.)? Most consumers will not even care/notice so long as they can keep doing what they're doing.

And I also agree, no need for insults in constructive discussions, regardless of whether you agree or not. That's going to earn you a one-way ticket on the ban-hammer train. :thumbs:

 

[Dleg]

De-regulation always works out well. The Free Market is the ultimate answer to everything. 

(then suddenly remembers the 2008 mortgage crisis and subsequent global recession)

 

[Road Guy]

..... im pretty sure there was government / political involvement into that decision as well

& most of that crisis was caused by people buying shit they couldn't afford, and the banks being encouraged to do so.. & the market corrected, try and get a loan lately? HFS Im like a 780 credit score and they still want to see bank statements

 

[Dleg]

Yeah that market correction.... took half of my retirement money and several years to catch back up to where I was. 

 

[Jbone27 PE]

I just think that at the end of the day I am paying the ISP to transfer data from point A to point B. The where and what is my business. 

For comparison sake, how would it be different than if they started charging more for water in your sink than water in your toilet? It's the same product, it takes up the same amount of space in the system and you will be billed on the amount you use but one is more expensive than the other. Is that a fair analogy?

 

[Road Guy]

yep government interference is grand isn't it?

Ill take the 30% return over the last year. A few more years at that rate and I may be able to call it quits...

 

[Ble_PE]

All told, I'm not a big fan of the decision, but I'm not entirely convinced it's going to drastically impact our internet experience. I could be wrong, but at the same time, I have at least two choices for ISPs with Google Fiber coming soon, so they are still going to have to compete. 

 

[Road Guy]

So if I want to fly from Denver to Atlanta should Delta be able to charge people triple to sit in first class and give them a better experience along the way? were all going to the same place? why not charge everyone on the flight the same and give everyone a tablespoon of wine? Not just those schmucks in 1st Class (btw I have only flown 1st class once and it is amazing)

Why can Disney sell "fast passes" and other park perks for people if we all paid the same to get in the park? Even the movie theatres are doing this now, oh premier members can get in line to buy their popcorn ahead of you - & I think all those things are crap and very rarely "participate" in places that operate that way.

IMO the internet is not a utility and Netflix isn't a necessity, its a convenience item. If Netflix, or FB says hey were going to have to charge you $5 bucks extra a month then me and 90% of their customers are going to say no thanks and seek entertainment elsewhere & IF this even happens the market will make a correction..

 

[Flyer_PE]

1.  Corrections are part of the business cycle.  Don't put anything in the market that you think you'll need in the next 5 years.

2.  The housing bubble was the end result of a massive set of moral hazards set up by government interventions in the housing market.  If the banks wouldn't have been allowed to shift the risk on those loans to the tax payer, they wouldn't have made the loans in the first place.  The federal government took it upon itself to boost home ownership among groups of people that couldn't or wouldn't put up the traditional 20% down payment.  With no risk of loss, bad loans were the norm.  Like any  condition that can't go on forever, it didn't.

 

[Flyer_PE]

IMO the internet is not a utility and Netflix isn't a necessity, its a convenience item. If Netflix, or FB says hey were going to have to charge you $5 bucks extra a month then me and 90% of their customers are going to say no thanks and seek entertainment elsewhere & IF this even happens the market will make a correction..

The other possibility is that somebody comes along with a better business model than Netflix (putting Netflix in Blockbuster's shoes).  Net Neutrality was just a way for companies like Netflix and Facebook to use the power of government to isolate themselves from competition from startups.

 

[Jbone27 PE]

So if I want to fly from Denver to Atlanta should Delta be able to charge people triple to sit in first class and give them a better experience along the way? were all going to the same place? why not charge everyone on the flight the same and give everyone a tablespoon of wine? Not just those schmucks in 1st Class (btw I have only flown 1st class once and it is amazing)

Why can Disney sell "fast passes" and other park perks for people if we all paid the same to get in the park? Even the movie theatres are doing this now, oh premier members can get in line to buy their popcorn ahead of you - & I think all those things are crap and very rarely "participate" in places that operate that way.

IMO the internet is not a utility and Netflix isn't a necessity, its a convenience item. If Netflix, or FB says hey were going to have to charge you $5 bucks extra a month then me and 90% of their customers are going to say no thanks and seek entertainment elsewhere & IF this even happens the market will make a correction..

You want to pay more money for faster service. No problem I'm all for that aspect of it.

The part I'm against is:

Me - I'd like to buy some internet please. How much is it?

Them- Well tell us what are you going to do with it and then we'll tell ya. 

Hope I'm not coming off as regulation imposing fool but I just want to buy it and use it at my disposal within the limits of the law. I guess that's were I'm differing as I do think it is utility made to transfer information and nothing more. 

 

[mudpuppy]

Net Neutrality was just a way for companies like Netflix and Facebook to use the power of government to isolate themselves from competition from startups.

Kind of like engineers do with the PE license?

This is fun, we haven't had a good old school EB argument in a long time.

 

[Ble_PE]

Kind of like engineers do with the PE license?

Surely you jest.

 

[FLBuff PE]

1.  Corrections are part of the business cycle.  Don't put anything in the market that you think you'll need in the next 5 years.

2.  The housing bubble was the end result of a massive set of moral hazards set up by government interventions in the housing market.  If the banks wouldn't have been allowed to shift the risk on those loans to the tax payer, they wouldn't have made the loans in the first place.  The federal government took it upon itself to boost home ownership among groups of people that couldn't or wouldn't put up the traditional 20% down payment.  With no risk of loss, bad loans were the norm.  Like any  condition that can't go on forever, it didn't.

So what your saying is the banks should have been regulated not to do this?

 

[mudpuppy]

Surely you jest.

Not jesting, though I am being devil's advocate.  There's quite a few anti-regulation people out there making the argument that engineer licensing is an un-necessary regulation, stifles competition, etc, etc.  Seems to be popping up more and more lately.  NSPE is holding a webinar to discuss these threats to licensing next month:  https://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-institute/live-educational-events/licensure-under-attack

 

[Ble_PE]

Not jesting, though I am being devil's advocate.  There's quite a few anti-regulation people out there making the argument that engineer licensing is an un-necessary regulation, stifles competition, etc, etc.  Seems to be popping up more and more lately.  NSPE is holding a webinar to discuss these threats to licensing next month:  https://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-institute/live-educational-events/licensure-under-attack

To me these are two completely different things, but I see where you're coming from. I'm not against regulation in general and think that it is necessary in certain situations. Like I said, I'm would have preferred that they not end "net neutrality", but I really don't think it's a big deal. I mean, hasn't it only been around a few years anyways? Were things drastically different before they regulated the internet? That's what I don't understand. The internet has effectively been unregulated ever since it became a thing except for the past 3-4 years, but now everyone thinks the shit's going to hit the fan because of this. :dunno:  

 

[Road Guy]

A different take on a similar issue -Google is trying to get into the internet provider business and are finding installing conduit and fiber is expensive - so they have been pitching the idea to local governments (they are doing this to mine currently) to let the local government "share" in the cost of installing the fiber and then in return providing all the tax payers a locked in rate that is supposed to be below the norms "the other guys" charge.  and by share I am sure they want the locals to pay like 90% of the install cost.

I've called BS on this because if Google wants to make it rain via selling fiber (internet / cable) they need to front the cost like "the other guys" did. Sure no one likes "the other guys" but they at least paid there way and didn't double dip by making my taxes pay them to install it plus then make money off the monthly service charge...

& by install it Im referring to putting the conduit and fiber in the ground , on poles, etc..

and of course for old times sakes Google SUCKS!