Need help - Engineering judgement for most near answers for PE Exam

[vijay6666]

I failed twice PE exam and this time very close for Transportation depth, I realized my weakness, that I am not making the right choice in picking the answer.

I knew the solutions but did not make the right choice in answers, it costed me again this time. Trying again for 3rd time.

Can someone, please explain me when to use the closest to the calculated value, and when to go for the larger value option with some example for Transportation depth

 

[johnnyusma08]

I just passed the civil construction and this is how I interpreted it: you should pick the answer that is about right, so if you calculated an answer to be say 4215 psi, and the choices were a) 2500 psi b) 3000 psi c) 4000 psi or d) 4750 psi you would pick c) 4000 psi because that is roughly what you calculated. In addition, there are some questions where the answer is nearly exact, so it might be calculated to 4 or 5 significant figures. Even then you will probably only get very close to that number because of rounding differences.

Let me caveat by also saying that when you finally arrive at an answer, if done correctly there should really be no question which one to pick. So I do not think you problem is that you are arriving at the right answer and picking the wrong choice. NCEES is really tricky in that they know exactly the mistakes people make and will tailor their answers to those mistakes. Maybe you forgot to convert a unit or didn't account for pump efficiency factor, or something along those lines, and you arrive at one of the choices but it was completely wrong. I found that I often made these types of mistakes during my practice exams and would think that I smoked the practice exam, but then ended up with a 50%.

A trick that I use to avoid these types of careless mistakes is to try and rework the problems by attempting to make some of the mistakes the test wants me to make and see if I arrive at some of the other choices. By doing this, I can verify that the one I picked is truly correct. However, I only recommend doing this if you have EXTRA TIME.

 

[JMT]

vijay, I think I understand your question. I just took the PE - Transportation for the first time, and passed. I put an insane number of hours into studying since I did the PE and two California Specific Exams at once but I found that the NCEES Transportation sample questions and 6-minute solutions to be the biggest help out of anything out there. 'Johnny' gives some good information above but I think your problem has to do with when to use what equation or min/max distance for questions. I found that by solving the problems in these two books and comprehending the solutions were (was?) enough for me. In my opinion you need to fully understand why the equations are used in the Greenbook (and HCM) and which one governs, this isn't something that someone can explain in one example; I believe you need to read it and understand it. PTATOHED can probably give his opinions on the subject. I have already given my review manuals and reference material to a coworker so I can't show you a specific example. PTATOHED's guidance (along with other people here) helped me to pass the exam in one shot!

If you were to write a specific transportation question I could explain to you what answer I would pick, and why...

 

[Mark Leyner]

The PPI folks have some good advice in the introduction sections to most of their publications. I'll quote a part of this info from the SERM section (which is attributed to NCEES), "What does 'most nearly' really mean?",

"You should use good engineering judgment when selecting your choice of answer. For example, if the question asks you to calculate an electrical current or determine the load on a beam, you should literally select the answer option that is most nearly what you calculated, regardless of whether it is more or less than your calculated value. However, if the question asks you to select a fuse or circuit breaker to protect against a calculated current or to size a beam to carry a load, you should select the answer option that will safely carry the current or load. Typically, this requires selecting a value that is closest to, but larger than, the current or load."

It's a subtle point, but I believe that the examination is structured to evaluate your engineering judgment. In general, I would summarize that paragraph by the following principle - select the nearest answer when computing demand, select the nearest conservative answer when computing capacity. Caveat - principles have exceptions. Good luck!

 

[vijay6666]

Thanks to all for valuable adivise. I really appreciate your input.

 

[ptatohed]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Thanks JMT for the kind words! Much appreciated. And congrats on passing my friend! ) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]vijay, while I don't think that not knowing what "most nearly" means, is the reason you did not pass three times, I'll try to help with my interpretation of 'most nearly'. In a nutshell, pick from the four answer options the numeric value closest to your calculation. The exception to this is when the answer you are seeking is dependent on certain constraints, knowns or generally accepted assumptions.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Example. What is the depth of the open channel? You calculate 3.1’. Answer choices are 2.0’, 3.0’, 4.0, 5.0’. In this case, selecting 3.0’ is ‘most nearly’ the correct answer.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Example. What pipe size should you use in your proposed design? You calculate 13.2”. Answer choices are 8”, 12”, 18” and 24”. In this case, you’d select 18”. Yes, numerically, 13.2” is closer to 12” than 18” but, using common sense, you know that your flow will not fit in a 12” pipe. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Does that help?[/SIZE]

 

[vijay6666]

Thanks Ptatohed, this helps, quick question for Transportation geometrical design questions, if superelevation is asked

Example: calculated value 2.3 , Answer choices 2, 3, 4, 5., I am selecting 2. Am I right, or since it is design we should always pick largest of the calculated value.

Please advise

 

[johnnyusma08]

If the question is asking what is the required super elevation grade for this curve I would select 2 in this example because it is most nearly right; especially since super elevation can also have a maximum value.

 

[kcjoepa]

I agree with the description of "most nearly" given by ptatohed. I passed the exam on my 2nd attempt. On my 2nd attempt, I was much more keen to what "most nearly" meant but also feel that I had a much better guessing strategy when it came to picking an answer.

My experience was that there were several problems where I was making a complete guess (a total shot in the dark) where I could not rule out any answer(s) as being incorrect or any answer(s) as being probably correct. I'm not talking about a 50:50 between two answers, I'm talking about not having any idea which answer to choose or not choose out of the four.

1st attempt

Guessed the same letter for all complete guesses

Failed

2nd attempt

Passed

 

[JMT]

I am always amazed when I read things like post #9 on this website, and I truely, 'most nearly', hope you never practice civil engineering in California. I would think that post was a joke except you have never posted before. I certainty know I don't guess in business; and I would never 'Distributed the letters chosen for complete guesses so that I finished the exam with 10 of each letter in the AM and PM'. But, to each their own, somehow you are now a licensed civil engineer! Congratulations kcjoepa! I hope you never practice SE in California, because I don't want to be in one of your building that you guessed on!

I am curious, how many questions did you have where you fully had NO CLUE on the question(s) and couldn't eliminate at least one of the answers? 'My experience was that there were several problems where I was making a complete guess (a total shot in the dark) where I could not rule out any answer(s) as being incorrect or any answer(s) as being probably correct. I'm not talking about a 50:50 between two answers, I'm talking about not having any idea which answer to choose or not choose out of the four.' Are you talking one to two, or seven to nine? How was it so many that you were able to distribute the answers to 10 answers of each letter (A through D)? And how did you even pass?

I am, for once, glad California has two additional tests; even though I have to wait forever to get those results!

 

[kcjoepa]

If NCEES wanted to discourage guessing, they would penalize it like other standardized tests do. Congratulations to you for not having any questions on the exam you had to guess on. I don't recall the exact number of problems I had to guess on but obviously if it were too many, I would not have passed.

 

[PSU09Vet]

I wouldn't think it's as unscientific as an equal number of the same letter spread throughout the exam. If you can deduce which answers are not even related to the question (say if they're asking for volume and one or two answers are in units of area) or if it looks like one or two answers are a factor of 10 or 100 too high or low from what a value probably should be, that's one thing. I would agree, I'd hope that kind of pure guessing wasn't applied to more than 10 questions out of all 80, for your sake and ours. Regardless, congrats on passing. I would just never gamble that much on an exam that is this expensive and time consuming to prepare for.

 

[solomonb]

The real answer to the problem is to know the material inside and out. Then, there is no reason to guess! It is easier to learn the material; NCEES provides the elements of examination on their web site-- knowing what the problem category is, what the weighting of the category is and that each question should take about 6 min each to solve gives you the material you need to successfully take the examination without much, if any, guessing.

The hard part of this is that you have to study to pass the PE examination. However, the bulk of the questions are at the Junior/Senior college level-- after all, they are testing to identify the "minimally competent" engineer. My academic colleagues tell me that this is the C- student.

 

[Wesson9]

^Utter nonsense

 

[JMT]

Sounds right. If the cut score is in the 65%-70% range that would be a D to C- grade on a test.

 

[peguy]

I don't know where to post the new topic, so I just post it here. I failed PE- Transportation this time. I think there were too many theory questions that I didn't know the answers even I opened all the reference books. After the exam, I have still been looking for the answers but I could not find them.

One more thing, my percentages of Traffic Safety and WR-Environment were low. How to improve to pass next time. Please help.

 

[ptatohed]

I don't know where to post the new topic, so I just post it here. I failed PE- Transportation this time. I think there were too many theory questions that I didn't know the answers even I opened all the reference books. After the exam, I have still been looking for the answers but I could not find them.

One more thing, my percentages of Traffic Safety and WR-Environment were low. How to improve to pass next time. Please help.

Three words of helpful advice: Study, Study and Study.

 

[PSU09Vet]

The real answer to the problem is to know the material inside and out. Then, there is no reason to guess! It is easier to learn the material; NCEES provides the elements of examination on their web site-- knowing what the problem category is, what the weighting of the category is and that each question should take about 6 min each to solve gives you the material you need to successfully take the examination without much, if any, guessing.

The hard part of this is that you have to study to pass the PE examination. However, the bulk of the questions are at the Junior/Senior college level-- after all, they are testing to identify the "minimally competent" engineer. My academic colleagues tell me that this is the C- student.

^Utter nonsense

Rubbish! oking: :B

It highlights my point that unless we remain in the academic world after earning our Bachelor's Degrees, we don't do nearly the amount of design calculations we ever did in college, we deal more in regulations, standards and practical "how to make it work" solutions. And knowledge is a use-it-or-lose-it element for the most part. We use spreadsheets and programs that have all the calculations built into them, so IMHO we lose some of the theoretical background unless we're forced to build the spreadsheets or programs ourselves and understand all the calculations from start to finish.

Bottom line - like has been said a million times - study study study. Practice going to your references and understanding the sections and variables is key.