Is this your pet peeve too?

[Dexman PE PMP]

The job titles don't bother me as much as the fact that people tend to work outside of their training/expertise. We have an inspector from a local municipality that has changed the design multiple times (drainage, roadway, etc) because he "prefers" something contradictory to the city standards or city-approved construction drawings. He's tried to change asphalt thickness, inlet types/sizes, storm pipe connections, reinforcing steel layouts, and many many more things. He's never been anything more than an inspector, never been to engineering school, let alone get licensed to practice engineering. The problem with all of it is the fact that the city staff (who ARE PE's) will back up the inspector's "wish list" (which are always more expensive, but it doesn't matter to them because the city isn't paying for it).

The latest issue was the subgrade prep for a surface street. The geotech report and stamped construction drawings called for a 1' rip and recompaction of the subgrade, but the inspector insisted on a 3' overex with a structural fill. The contractor built the road as shown in the city approved plans (1' rip), but now the city is refusing to accept the work because the inspector wanted a 3' overex (meanwhile, they are enjoying benefitial occupancy for said roadway).

 

[CivilConstruction]

Yea the whole "the field inspector has final say" rule these cities have is criminal. Even city approval stamps have language that defer to that - but your stamp is on it...they'll take no responsibility for changes they force down your throat. Pick a local contractor that isn't going to piss the inspector off.......

 

[Exception Collection]

I work on a project where the GC has a guy with the title "Field Structural Engineer". 20something years old and didn't even go to college. If i pass this Oct PE exam and add those letters after my name it still won't look as cool as this guy's faux title.

In every state I know the rules of, he's violating the law. "Structural Engineer" is a legally restricted term; unless he has an SE, he can't use it.

Oregon restricts the usage of the term "Engineer". I have a Washington license, but not an Oregon one - and when I worked in Oregon I wasn't allowed to use the title, so my official job title was "Project Manager" rather than "Project Engineer". I wasn't even allowed to put "PE" after my initials on documents unless they were for use in WA - though I was able to put "(name), P.E. (WA) in my e-mails. I might be a bit retentive when it comes to laws and rules, though; I ran all of that by OSBEELS.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my discussion with them is why they specifically added an exemption to the rules that allows people with out-of-state licenses to use PE as long as they clearly identify that it's out of state. I'm pretty sure the rule wasn't there when I got my license back in 2009.

 

[dcarnley]

Really like the post and it pisses me off also because I am an EIT waiting for more PE results from the October exam. I am always having to tell people who are out my field how the process works for Engineering. Every time I tell them I am an Engineer Intern they immediately look at me as a non-professional. Then in many other cases I have people who claim they have a friend or family who is an engineer and they are nothing more but a technician, but they view that person as being higher up on the professional which is not true. As an EIT, this is how I have handle it. Currently, my business card says "Transportation Design" with "EI" right after my name. If I pass the exam, I plan on adding "Transportation/Roadway/Highway Project Engineer" and obviously "PE" after my name. If for some reason I can't pass the exam over time, I plan removing the "EI" from the business card and change my title to "Roadway Designer".

 

[CivilConstruction]

@ Exception Collection

We only police engineers when using the term (which is why you couldn't use it in a diff state) because the penalties are set up to punish the practicing engineers. Non-engineers have no enforcement vehicle and thus are not policed.

Just like US law, you are punished worse 'if you know better' while the thugs just spend the night.

 

[Exception Collection]

Really like the post and it pisses me off also because I am an EIT waiting for more PE results from the October exam. I am always having to tell people who are out my field how the process works for Engineering. Every time I tell them I am an Engineer Intern they immediately look at me as a non-professional. Then in many other cases I have people who claim they have a friend or family who is an engineer and they are nothing more but a technician, but they view that person as being higher up on the professional which is not true. As an EIT, this is how I have handle it. Currently, my business card says "Transportation Design" with "EI" right after my name. If I pass the exam, I plan on adding "Transportation/Roadway/Highway Project Engineer" and obviously "PE" after my name. If for some reason I can't pass the exam over time, I plan removing the "EI" from the business card and change my title to "Roadway Designer".

Makes sense. I think that's probably why most people don't use "Engineering Intern" in their titles.

@ Exception Collection

We only police engineers when using the term (which is why you couldn't use it in a diff state) because the penalties are set up to punish the practicing engineers. Non-engineers have no enforcement vehicle and thus are not policed.

Just like US law, you are punished worse 'if you know better' while the thugs just spend the night.

I know, it just seems ridiculous when you see unlicensed "Engineers" working for contractors.

 

[SCarolinaNiki PE]

I have had many rants on this topic. It urks me to no end how people get away with it. Whenever someone uses the term loosely in titles on tv, my husband gives me one of those sideways glances to see if I'm going comment or not. He isn't in engineering, but I have set him straight one who is and who is not an Engineer.

Really like the post and it pisses me off also because I am an EIT waiting for more PE results from the October exam. I am always having to tell people who are out my field how the process works for Engineering. Every time I tell them I am an Engineer Intern they immediately look at me as a non-professional. Then in many other cases I have people who claim they have a friend or family who is an engineer and they are nothing more but a technician, but they view that person as being higher up on the professional which is not true. As an EIT, this is how I have handle it. Currently, my business card says "Transportation Design" with "EI" right after my name. If I pass the exam, I plan on adding "Transportation/Roadway/Highway Project Engineer" and obviously "PE" after my name. If for some reason I can't pass the exam over time, I plan removing the "EI" from the business card and change my title to "Roadway Designer".

After I passed the FE and found out I would be getting new business cards, I called and talked to HR directly. I made sure that my bisness cards would retian my title of Controls Designer and that they would only be adding the EI to my name. I was not going to be using the company standard of "Engineering Intern". Unless you know the profession, it just sounds so second rate.

 

[HornTootinEE]

SO, we all hate the use of "engineer" for non-engineers. How do we fix it? Are any of you involved at NCEES, your state boards, etc? I'm asking because I want to know-how to we as a profession take the first step to fixing this? Report all known offenders? Get on our state board to push NCEES model law harder? How do we start?

 

[Dark Knight]

NCEES does not care. All they care about is the exam fee twice a year and they are making a ton of money on that.

 

[ptatohed]

They are aware and they apparently do care. Did you see my Post #2?

 

[CivilConstruction]

I heard that Microsoft tried to name a program XXX Architect but the AIA pooped on them (and they renamed it engineer....).

Maybe we need to start our own thing outside of NCEES. Architects pass the exam and become 'RA's but you never see that after their name because an organization (AIA) came about and if you join it you use their title instead of RA. They are the Architect police/activist group. If you see someone with 'RA' after their name they are an Architect but dont' pay dues to the AIA. Pretty good that your group gets so powerful that people forget about the old title.

I vote that instead of John Doe, PE we call ourselves John Doe, Jedi Knight

 

[CivilConstruction]

Lets start by everyone sending me 10 bucks

 

[fetzdog121]

if anyone would care I think it would be other professional "engineers" and the state boards. Although its kinda difficult to enforce board rules on non-board members.

 

[hjg7715]

I would frankly be more concerned about incompetent licensed engineers (and I have crossed paths with a few) than I would be of the use of the word "engineer" in describing someone's job title who may not have the same educational or board credentials as most professional engineers. As long as they're not trying to pass themselves off as licensed engineers, I really don't have a problem with it.

 

[ptatohed]

a friend of mine is an Architect, from a family of Architects in NYC. We were in a corner store getting coffee when a woman neither of us knew was commenting on being an Architect (we both now live in the country with a small population). Long and short of the story, she is a "Landscape Architect". I am sure Doctors have similar gripes.

What's wrong with landscape architecture?