Hybrid Car Sales Tank...

[wilheldp_PE]

I bought a Mustang GT at the beginning of 2007, and drive it 110 miles per day. A co-worker bought a prius about the same time, he paid about 6000 more for that than I did the Mustang. I get 26mpg driving back and forth to work, and I think he gets about 45. He's also already had $2000 worth of damage to the car, he hit a small dog (sad but true!) he will NEVER cover the extra cost for what he bought, and I'll be honest, in the end I'm driving a cool *** car, and let's face it, he's driving a damn prius!!!!!

With the $6000 difference, his payback period would be 4.6 years with $2/gallon gas.

With the $8000 difference, his payback period would be 6.2 years with $2/gallon gas.

But, when you both bought the cars, gas was closer to $4/gallon.

With the $6000 difference, his payback period would be 2.3 years with $4/gallon gas.

With the $8000 difference, his payback period would be 3.1 years with $4/gallon gas.

At the time, it was probably a pretty good decision, but economic conditions changed, making it a less than ideal investment.

 

[Dleg]

The thing that concerns me about hybrids is the battery bank - I know they have long warranty periods (8 years?) but from what I understand, if you have to replace the battery system, it would run somewhere around $5,000???

And then think about all that lead .... I wonder what a true "cradle to grave" analysis of the environmental harm caused by manufacturing, driving, repairing, and ultimately disposing of a hybrid vehicle would be compared to, say, a conventional fuel efficient vehicle like a Toyota Yaris. My guess is that the hybrid isn't any "better" for the environment, and may in fact turn out to be worse in terms of hazardous wastes generated.

 

[MGX]

The thing that concerns me about hybrids is the battery bank - I know they have long warranty periods (8 years?) but from what I understand, if you have to replace the battery system, it would run somewhere around $5,000???
And then think about all that lead .... I wonder what a true "cradle to grave" analysis of the environmental harm caused by manufacturing, driving, repairing, and ultimately disposing of a hybrid vehicle would be compared to, say, a conventional fuel efficient vehicle like a Toyota Yaris. My guess is that the hybrid isn't any "better" for the environment, and may in fact turn out to be worse in terms of hazardous wastes generated.

As a former wrench-turner I agree and your numbers are accurate. I don't think hybrids are the answer and are a novelty or stop-gap.

I believe that to dramatically increase the fuel economy of cars is to reduce the safety requirements, which no one with political ambitions will do. Economy cars from 15 years ago performed far better than late models. The Honda CRX is a good example, getting better than Prius mileage in the HF trim package 20 plus years ago. Even a small car today weighs as much as my 10 year old Lincoln (3500 lbs), while the CRX tips the scales around 1600 lbs. Reducing weight is key to higher mileage and increasing safety leads to heavier cars.

EDIT: to be fair, fuel economy among mid sized cars and trucks is indeed better today than 20 years ago. I'm only talking about economy cars, if you can even consider any car sold in the US to be an economy car.

 

[Chucktown PE]

The thing that concerns me about hybrids is the battery bank - I know they have long warranty periods (8 years?) but from what I understand, if you have to replace the battery system, it would run somewhere around $5,000???
And then think about all that lead .... I wonder what a true "cradle to grave" analysis of the environmental harm caused by manufacturing, driving, repairing, and ultimately disposing of a hybrid vehicle would be compared to, say, a conventional fuel efficient vehicle like a Toyota Yaris. My guess is that the hybrid isn't any "better" for the environment, and may in fact turn out to be worse in terms of hazardous wastes generated.

Dleg, I read an article on this very topic a year or so ago. The manufacture and disposal of the batteries is incredibly bad for the environment. And you know me, I like to ruffle feathers, so when some of the environuts in my office in ATL started bragging about their eco-savvy purchases and brow beating me for owning/driving a 12 year old SUV, I had to piss on their parade a little bit and quote the article. I'll see if I can find it for you.

 

[TXengrChickPE]

I drove a Geo Metro back in high school. It got ~50 mpg in town... almost never saw a highway, so I don't know what it would've done there. Granted, it was a crappy little two-seater... but it got me to and from school and work. AND, it was dirt-cheap... IIRC - $6500 when we got it, one year old.

Now, hubby drives a Prius that gets ~48 mpg... don't even ask what we paid for it

 

[TXengrChickPE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7958498.stm

 

[snickerd3]

If I can touch the passenger side door while seated (not leaning) in the driver seat, the car is too small.

 

[NCcarguy]

If I can touch the passenger side door while seated (not leaning) in the driver seat, the car is too small.

Words of wisdom!

 

[NCcarguy]

With the $6000 difference, his payback period would be 4.6 years with $2/gallon gas.With the $8000 difference, his payback period would be 6.2 years with $2/gallon gas.

But, when you both bought the cars, gas was closer to $4/gallon.

With the $6000 difference, his payback period would be 2.3 years with $4/gallon gas.

With the $8000 difference, his payback period would be 3.1 years with $4/gallon gas.

At the time, it was probably a pretty good decision, but economic conditions changed, making it a less than ideal investment.

That's all correct, but really....three years of driving at the rate that we are driving to recoup the difference in costs. With those miles, I'm going to guess his Prius is worth MUCH less resale than the Mustang, and if he DOES have a battery problem, then it's junk. If you're making decisions on ALL the parameters, and the actual cost PER mile of driving, I still say that the "Fun Factor" adds a little to what I drive......I don't think it's even that close a comparison.

NOW.....I will say that I've been VERY tempted by an electric car, and I swear I've almost ordered it.....look it up

http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/

 

[roadwreck]

I bought a Mustang GT at the beginning of 2007, and drive it 110 miles per day. I get 26mpg driving back and forth to work

How exactly are you getting 26mpg out of a mustang GT? I'm no expert on Ford Mustangs but in my limited knowledge the GT would mean it's a V8, right?

This site says the fuel economy for a 2007 mustang GT should be between 15 and 23 mpg (if you have a manual). That doesn't mean 26 mpg can't be achieved if you drive economically. But then, that would take all the fun out of your "cool *** car".

I drive a "sensible" 4 door sedan. I can't average 26 mpg for a full tank of gas even when I try. Sure, if I'm on a long road trip and only counting my time on the interstate I can get up close to 30, but you have to stop and start at some point. I have serious doubts that a V8 mustang can achieve 26 mpg on anything but a sedate (limited sampling) highway drive.

 

[MonteBiker]

With the $6000 difference, his payback period would be 4.6 years with $2/gallon gas.With the $8000 difference, his payback period would be 6.2 years with $2/gallon gas.

But, when you both bought the cars, gas was closer to $4/gallon.

With the $6000 difference, his payback period would be 2.3 years with $4/gallon gas.

With the $8000 difference, his payback period would be 3.1 years with $4/gallon gas.

At the time, it was probably a pretty good decision, but economic conditions changed, making it a less than ideal investment.

Good analysis, but did you factor the $1575 hybrid tax credit that the prius owner got for buying the car at the beginning of 2007. Adjust for that and you are looking more at:

With the $4425 difference, his payback period would be 3.4 years with $2/gallon gas.

With the $6425 difference, his payback period would be 4.9 years with $2/gallon gas.

With the $4425 difference, his payback period would be 1.7 years with $4/gallon gas.

With the $6425 difference, his payback period would be 2.5 years with $4/gallon gas.

In all fairness to the Prius driver, the dog accident could have happened to anyone and it is not too hard to do $2000 worth of damage to a SUV or truck...

- A new Prius: MSRP: $22000 - $24270

- A tank full of gasoline: $2-4/gallon

- The chance for me to ride by you on my bicycle (to or from work) - Priceless...

 

[roadwreck]

- The chance for me to ride by you on my bicycle (to or from work) - Priceless...

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Good analysis, but did you factor the $1575 hybrid tax credit that the prius owner got for buying the car at the beginning of 2007. Adjust for that and you are looking more at:
With the $4425 difference, his payback period would be 3.4 years with $2/gallon gas.

With the $6425 difference, his payback period would be 3.7 years with $2/gallon gas.

With the $4425 difference, his payback period would be 1.7 years with $4/gallon gas.

With the $6425 difference, his payback period would be 3.9 years with $4/gallon gas.

In all fairness to the Prius driver, the dog accident could have happened to anyone and it is not too hard to do $2000 worth of damage to a SUV or truck...

- A new Prius: MSRP: $22000 - $24270

- A tank full of gasoline: $2-4/gallon

- The chance for me to ride by you on my bicycle (to or from work) - Priceless...

You screwed something up with the $6425 @ $4/gal. It shouldn't be more than the same scenario with $2 gas.

 

[MonteBiker]

You screwed something up with the $6425 @ $4/gal. It shouldn't be more than the same scenario with $2 gas.

Sure did... Sorry about that. Had just done a quick ratio and must not have back checked my calculator. Did it again and edited the post. Thanks for the catch and the initial savings report. Was just trying to help strengthen your argument.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

NOW.....I will say that I've been VERY tempted by an electric car, and I swear I've almost ordered it.....look it up
http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/

Why? It is based on a Lotus Elise and you can pick them up for far less than $100K.

 

[Supe]

Why? It is based on a Lotus Elise and you can pick them up for far less than $100K.

Wow, did you read the tech specs? For a pretty car, that thing is blisteringly slow.

 

[Katiebug]

I considered buying a Prius, but did the math and found (unsurpisingly) that my paid-for VW New Beetle, despite averaging 25 MPG, is still a far cheaper vehicle to own. Last summer at the peak of the gas prices, I calculated out the cost of a Toyota Yaris sedan and the Honda Fit, and compared with the Prius - I still have the spreadsheet somewhere and I found that gas needed to stay high for the hybrid to be cheaper in the long run. I believe the Yaris sedan was only about $13-14K and a Prius is more like $24K, so the cost of the actual vehicle did play a significant role.

We have been discussing trading in Mr. Bug's '01 Camry for a Yaris sedan or even a gently used 4-door compact (even a Corolla or Civic) once he finds a new job. The Camry is a bit of a bear on gas compared to a slightly smaller vehicle. When we have kids, I'll have a crossover SUV - my commute is shorter (9 miles each way) and I will likely be handling daycare dropoff/pickup. Heavens knows the Bug won't be a sensible family vehicle!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Wow, did you read the tech specs? For a pretty car, that thing is blisteringly slow.

Series 1 does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, series 2 in 4.7 seconds. Plenty dang fast for me.

Katie, the Corolla gets just about the same mileage as the Yaris in the real world, and if you're looking for a sedan, is a better vehicle for the money IMO.

 

[TXengrChickPE]

^ what he said. The Yaris is the *slightly* updated Echo. I drove my Echo for 6 years, and I liked it... but most men (or anyone over 5'7) do NOT fit comfortably in it.

No matter what he gets, once you have kids, you'll want car seats in both vehicles if at all possible. Even if you rarely use them, the few times that you need them will be worth it.

 

[Supe]

So much for gas being cheap. It's sneaking back up on $2/gallon here.