How Much of Pay Raise after PE Certification?

[cocoloco]

I am not expecting any pay raise from the PE (if I pass it). The government works much differently in how and what ways pay can be increased. And this isnt one of the cases where the rules could be greased. Although there might be a small bonus for it as a performance award or something. But Im not holding my breath for that either. The big reasoning for my getting the PE wasnt for increased pay, but as a differentiating factor for future career progression as there are very few PEs in my line of government work in spite of a high number of job titled engineers.

If you are young, I would consider leaving the government. I have been there, done that... Unless you are willing to go take chances in plkaces like Iraq and Afghanistan, you will never see very much money. You do get performance awards (at least in my case) of up to 1500, which was nice but you have to put up with a lot of inefficient people who just dont care because there is no profit involved or any other incentive for that matter. It seems the Government these days are moving towards Design-Build contracts anyways even in the Corps Of Engineers so many Engineers in the government have NEVER been involved in any type of design... That is why there are so many companies out there greasing their pans with the government's bacon. They just dont know any better. Sorry but it's true.

 

[Jennifer Price]

If you are young, I would consider leaving the government. I have been there, done that... Unless you are willing to go take chances in plkaces like Iraq and Afghanistan, you will never see very much money. You do get performance awards (at least in my case) of up to 1500, which was nice but you have to put up with a lot of inefficient people who just dont care because there is no profit involved or any other incentive for that matter. It seems the Government these days are moving towards Design-Build contracts anyways even in the Corps Of Engineers so many Engineers in the government have NEVER been involved in any type of design... That is why there are so many companies out there greasing their pans with the government's bacon. They just dont know any better. Sorry but it's true.

As a young person who worked for the government, I agree. I did very little "engineering" and a lot of managing consultants. My job was not challenging at all and many days, I was bored out of my mind. I never felt like I had adequate training for what I was doing and unfortunately, my immediate supervisor, who worked his way up through the ranks, was very jealous of young engineers and didn't want to have much to do with me. When I left, I found out that he specifically kept me off a project that I was suppose to work on so that I wouldn't "take his job" (whatever that means).

With that being said, the particular government agency that I worked for gave awesome raises (15 - 20%) for passing the PE (not that I ever would have had to sign and seal anything with what I did). But the money did not interest me enough to keep me at that job - I needed a challenging job - not one where I was a paper pusher.

 

[cocoloco]

As a young person who worked for the government, I agree. I did very little "engineering" and a lot of managing consultants. My job was not challenging at all and many days, I was bored out of my mind. I never felt like I had adequate training for what I was doing and unfortunately, my immediate supervisor, who worked his way up through the ranks, was very jealous of young engineers and didn't want to have much to do with me. When I left, I found out that he specifically kept me off a project that I was suppose to work on so that I wouldn't "take his job" (whatever that means).
With that being said, the particular government agency that I worked for gave awesome raises (15 - 20%) for passing the PE (not that I ever would have had to sign and seal anything with what I did). But the money did not interest me enough to keep me at that job - I needed a challenging job - not one where I was a paper pusher.

Yes, when I quit my job with the Government (Fed) they tried to offer me a GS13, tried to meet with me and my boss telling me that he may be leaving- GET THIS-anywhere from 6 months to 2 YEARS from now and that I could have his job when he was gone. They are running on low now because of bad management during the early 90's where it was hard to get into a government job, they were just not hiring. Now they will pay for it dearly, mostly to large Design (A&E) Firms. They are antiquated, outdated and untrained. The best way to describe them is PENNY WISE_ POUND FOOLISH. Pay 40 grand to a guy to relocate 3 compressors (1 H.P.) but yet cant provide a printer to replace a 15 year old printer (FACT) for an Engineering office.I am not just saying that, it is true from my experience...

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^^^I quit the DoD in late 1995, and you hit the nail on the head.

 

[IlPadrino]

[SIZE=10pt]I respect if you want to flood your blood in beer; this can carry short/long term health consequences. Alcohol is not a priority for me. I prefer to use my money in a more efficient way.[/SIZE]

How about wine, then? They say a glass a day keeps the heart attacks away.

Seriously, you could always donate the money... I wouldn't think even just $2000 is anything to sneeze at. There are also more reasons to licensure than just pay raise.

 

[chaosiscash]

If you are young, I would consider leaving the government. I have been there, done that... Unless you are willing to go take chances in plkaces like Iraq and Afghanistan, you will never see very much money. You do get performance awards (at least in my case) of up to 1500, which was nice but you have to put up with a lot of inefficient people who just dont care because there is no profit involved or any other incentive for that matter. It seems the Government these days are moving towards Design-Build contracts anyways even in the Corps Of Engineers so many Engineers in the government have NEVER been involved in any type of design... That is why there are so many companies out there greasing their pans with the government's bacon. They just dont know any better. Sorry but it's true.

As an employee of a certified pan greaser, I completely agree. If you want government work, there is better money in the consultant side.

 

[IlPadrino]

Regarding Government Service, here's my perspective...

Be sure to recognize that different parts of the government will offer you a different experience. Regarding the military, there's even a big difference between the Army's Corps of Engineers and the Navy's NAVFAC. I think NAVFAC is a great organization to work for (OK... so maybe my perspective is a bit jaded!) and I think most would find it very rewarding. There are *VERY FEW* NAVFAC civil servants working in Iraq (unlike the Corps of Engineers, who own that geographic area), but I can tell you the Navy's Contingency Engineers are doing some great work as reach-back resources.

Also, regarding pay and the civil service, you "old-timers" should read up on NSPS which replaces the General Schedule (GS) pay system for non-bargaining unit employees. Who knows if it will really work as advertised, but the concepts are certainly sound.

There's certainly been a shift towards best-value contracting and design-build construction... but I'm not sure that's had a negative impact on the military engineering profession. I do agree you'll get a lot more "management" experience with government service than "get your hands dirty" engineering experience.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Also, regarding pay and the civil service, you "old-timers" should read up on NSPS which replaces the General Schedule (GS) pay system for non-bargaining unit employees. Who knows if it will really work as advertised, but the concepts are certainly sound.

Buddy of mine works for the AF and said that NSPS is the worst thing he's seen in his career (started in 84). He says the corruption of the system is already in full swing and the troopies all have no faith in it. He said a bunch of older guys are gonna punch out at the end of the year. I'm waiting to see how much of that is talk.

I did look up where I'd be today if I had stayed with the DoD. I'd be making over twice what I make now. Still isn't wrth it to me, if I had to go back to Wormy Robins.

 

[IlPadrino]

Buddy of mine works for the AF and said that NSPS is the worst thing he's seen in his career (started in 84). He says the corruption of the system is already in full swing and the troopies all have no faith in it. He said a bunch of older guys are gonna punch out at the end of the year. I'm waiting to see how much of that is talk.
I did look up where I'd be today if I had stayed with the DoD. I'd be making over twice what I make now. Still isn't wrth it to me, if I had to go back to Wormy Robins.

Yeah... NSPS will only work if management puts in the effort. Regarding corruption, it can't be any worse than the civilian sector where favoritism is sure to get you promoted!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Regarding corruption, it can't be any worse than the civilian sector where favoritism is sure to get you promoted!

It was incompetance that got you promoted when I was there.

 

[cocoloco]

Regarding Government Service, here's my perspective...
Be sure to recognize that different parts of the government will offer you a different experience. Regarding the military, there's even a big difference between the Army's Corps of Engineers and the Navy's NAVFAC. I think NAVFAC is a great organization to work for (OK... so maybe my perspective is a bit jaded!) and I think most would find it very rewarding. There are *VERY FEW* NAVFAC civil servants working in Iraq (unlike the Corps of Engineers, who own that geographic area), but I can tell you the Navy's Contingency Engineers are doing some great work as reach-back resources.

Also, regarding pay and the civil service, you "old-timers" should read up on NSPS which replaces the General Schedule (GS) pay system for non-bargaining unit employees. Who knows if it will really work as advertised, but the concepts are certainly sound.

There's certainly been a shift towards best-value contracting and design-build construction... but I'm not sure that's had a negative impact on the military engineering profession. I do agree you'll get a lot more "management" experience with government service than "get your hands dirty" engineering experience.

I worked for USACE for 6 years and just quit NAVFAC. NAVFAC does not have NSPS yet (at least not the west coast). Some positions within USACE have switched. I do agree with you that it offers some opportunities not found elsewhere though. I can not say I regret it at all. God bless them old folks!

 

[Dleg]

...Make yourself as valuable and indispensable as you can to your office. A good way to do that for young engineers is to become an expert on software (i.e. CAD, Revit, HEC programs, Water modeling) A lot of older PE's don't have the computer skills that a young person will, who probably learned a lot in college. I learned the HEC programs as well as CAD in school.

Another good way to prove your value is to try and be a "mini-expert" in a subject your office frequently does work in. It doesn't have to be super-technical either. Another EIT here got real good at putting together E & SC plans and now he's the go-to-guy for all the E & SC work.

As far as "PE raises" goes, though, don't expect much from a private consulting firm - you'll make the big money when you start bringing IN the big money. OR you become an indespinsable technical guru.

Now THERE's some good advice. Goes for government service as well (especially bringing in new grants, or odd grant sources.)

 

[Guest]

JR

 

[civilsid]

Pay raises can be a funny thing. I worked for a bunch of different companies over the last several years because it seemed the only way to make more was to go work for someone else. Actually, there seems to be a surprising amount of turnover in the industry considering the talent level. I mean, it is like people coming and going at a fast food joint.

BUT... also consider that while I was being all money hungry trying to make as much as possible, my wife actually took a pay cut. She is not an engineer but she has a masters degree in counseling psychology. So, it is definitely not always about the money.

For her, it was all about enjoying her job and monetary reward was almost inconsequential (she took about a $8,000 pay cut to find a job she liked)

My opinion is "Same circus, different tent" so, unless there is something terrible about the work environment, I'm going to go for maximum pay.

 

[MA_PE]

BUT... also consider that while I was being all money hungry trying to make as much as possible, my wife actually took a pay cut. She is not an engineer but she has a masters degree in counseling psychology. So, it is definitely not always about the money.
For her, it was all about enjoying her job and monetary reward was almost inconsequential (she took about a $8,000 pay cut to find a job she liked)

IMHO, quality of life is defined by two quantities, time and money. If you have enough of these two resources to be satified in how you live and what you do, then quality of life is good. If you need to work to cover the bills and it doesn't leave enough time to do what you want, then quality of life diminishes. Similarly, if you have ample free time but no money to do what you want, then quality of life is less than satisfying.

It's great to be able to take a pay cut for a more satisfying and fulfilling job and still cover all the bills that come with life, as well as saving for a future, taking care of dependents, etc. etc.

Money is never a problem if you have enough of it.

 

[civilsid]

I think it was David Lee Roth that said money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a big fuckin' yacht so you can pull right up next to it and party yer ass off. :multiplespotting:

 

[KenC]

OK guys, lets talk REAL $$. I have no PE or EIT. However that said, I bring in 75K here in Colorado in as an electrical designer. The pay is for what I know and can do. I have been in the industry for 30 years now, have a masters license and a contractors license, I QC EVERY P.E. drawings in the shop I work in, even the owners. Become an expert in the NEC, and learn ACADMEP or REVIT, and you will earn top dollar. Lets face it 100% of electricians getting their Journey license (5 years) know more about electrical engineering than anyone just graduating from college. In electrical its all about the code. Become an expert in the NEC and the rest will follow.

All this said, the big money will always be owning your own company and not working for someone else. Been there done that

 

[Dark Knight]

Guess we have another one.

 

[Guest]

KenC --

I am not going to put you down for your viewpoints - we all have a point of view. Engineering is about APPLICATION of knowledge. Learning a code book doesn't even remotely get you in the ball park if you don't have the education behind understanding the mechanics and principles upon which those codes are founded.

I would be weary of trumpeting your - I know more than you position. That is just ignorant.

All this said, the big money will always be owning your own company and not working for someone else. Been there done that

I certainly do not disagree with your logic here.

JR

 

[cement]

I think that there is a certain satisfaction from achieving your PE-ness. but maybe that's just me.