How Much of Pay Raise after PE Certification?

[rppearso]

I am only posting this for people that might stumble upon this thread. I know most of you are licensed so you understand these laws perfectly well:
All the drawings and calculations you do (at least in every state I am familiar with) need to have at the minimum a stamp on them. States differ somewhat, but say you make a preliminary drawing for review, strictly following the rules means you add your stamp, but it would not need to be signed and dated. And really this is a good thing for us licensed engineers, the more a stamp becomes the standard for every design and drawing the better it is to have a license. It effectively raises the bar on engineering work and mostly I agree with it.

However, all record drawings would need a stamp and signature/date.

BUT, if you did not do the design work on a drawing you do not need to stamp it, in fact most states have laws that specifically forbid you to stamp any work that isn't your own. So if you refuse to stamp something you did not do, I can't see the State Board trying to take away your license.

I have never seen anywhere in the statues that requires you to stamp drawings that you worked on (just because I work on a drawing does not mean im ready to stamp it when a project manager says so, I may need time which = a huge fatty raise before the drawings can go forward or someone else can stamp them), I worked on all kinds of drawings as an EIT and obvously I never stamped them. Also the need for more stamping is only good if the stamping engineers are in very short supply and are getting HUGE fatty near 200k wages for it, otherwise its just a liability you are taking on for free so your company can rake it in.

I have never heard of someone loosing there licence for NOT stamping something, I have heard of people loosing there licence FOR stamping something that was unsafe/incorrect/etc. The stamp is there to protect public safety so no stamp no construction no public saftey at risk but more important its leverage over your employer (as long as stamping engineers are more rigourusly required by states AND in short supply).

I would like to hear more about people loosing there licence for NOT stamping something irregardless if they worked on it or not. I will also contact my state board becuase thats a pretty heavy statement.

 

[roadwreck]

Also the need for more stamping is only good if the stamping engineers are in very short supply...

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you assert the need for a shortage of licensed engineers in order to drive up their value. Since there are so many of us already out there I assume you are proposing to eliminate as many PE's as you can. Should I fear for my life?

hmy:

 

[Dexman PE]

Playing devils advocate here:

Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

I can understand not stamping anything if the work you do is under the supervision of another PE who then stamps it (such as the PM or OM). Everyone in my office is licensed, but only about half actually do the stamping (typically the PM or the office manager who stamp only what they supervise). In fact, 4 of us haven't stamped a thing in our careers. We also don't have anyone dedicated as the "stamper" of the office. Don't get me wrong, we are compensated for having our license, but we are NEVER forced to use it.

 

[Dark Knight]

Playing devils advocate here:Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

Why would a licensed engineer refuse to sign a work he did?

 

[Dexman PE]

Playing devils advocate here:Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

Why would a licensed engineer refuse to sign a work he did?

That appears to be rppearso's point above. He's stating that he may refuse to stamp drawings if the employer won't give him a "fatty raise."

 

[Dark Knight]

That appears to be rppearso's point above. He's stating that he may refuse to stamp drawings if the employer won't give him a "fatty raise."

rlyflag:

That is a classic example of someone lucky to have a job in this economy.

For some reason I remember the words of our fearless leader...You can be a PE and still be an...(fill the blank).

 

[rppearso]

Playing devils advocate here:
Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

I can understand not stamping anything if the work you do is under the supervision of another PE who then stamps it (such as the PM or OM). Everyone in my office is licensed, but only about half actually do the stamping (typically the PM or the office manager who stamp only what they supervise). In fact, 4 of us haven't stamped a thing in our careers. We also don't have anyone dedicated as the "stamper" of the office. Don't get me wrong, we are compensated for having our license, but we are NEVER forced to use it.

I see your point, and I had a job offer a few months ago that I turned down because they wanted me to stamp something that another project team had done and was post PHA, I said no way, obvoiusly he did not hire me (the pay was not even close to what I needed to be a "stamper" anyways) and then he hired a non PE and had someone else stamp the drawings, I was kind of glad I was a PE and did not take that job becuase it was like amature hour/3 ring circus there.

Now regarding drawings that I worked on, on the front end of a project I would let them know that I will not be the stamping engineer (unless the compensation is to my liking) and I can work on drawings but someone else needs to stamp. If they dont like that then they dont have to have me on the project and over time I will see how much this PE is really working for me and I may even take it off my resume and work as an EIT since im being paid the same anyways and I wont be faced with dilemas that can get me fired. The whole idea of going through the rigor of getting your engineering degree and a PE is to make money, I did not go to school and test for charity lol so we will see how it goes.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Playing devils advocate here:Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

Why would a licensed engineer refuse to sign a work he did?

1) No fatty raise (aka the rpearso disorder)

2) The engineer has multiple personalities and some other personality did the design. it would be unethical to stamp another personality's work, since it isn't yours.

 

[rppearso]

That appears to be rppearso's point above. He's stating that he may refuse to stamp drawings if the employer won't give him a "fatty raise."

rlyflag:

That is a classic example of someone lucky to have a job in this economy.

For some reason I remember the words of our fearless leader...You can be a PE and still be an...(fill the blank).

Who is the fearless leader and what is the fill in the blank. Like d*ck head or something. I dont buy into that lucky to have a job bit thats a scare tactic for companies to skim more of your bill rate off the top. I did not spend 10 years getting my PE to be "lucky to have a job" I did it to make fatty money. I have been on contracting web sites and there is money to be made out there, granted this economy can force you to work overseas for a few years (if your american company whats to treat you like a 3rd world immigrant lol) but the money is out there, dont let anyone fool you.

 

[Ble_PE]

I don't know how you came across this belief that getting your PE was going to get you fatty money, but it is flawed. I was told multiple times throughout college that if I wanted to get rich, don't major in engineering. It's the truth. Engineers are well paid, but we are never going to get rich off of our salaries and the sooner you accept that, the more you'll start enjoying life. You just seem like a whiny little bitch if you ask me, but I digress.

 

[Dexman PE]

I've made this point before: Your pay rate is all about what you bring to the company. You may be a certified ______, but what value does that have for your employer? A PE does have a certain base-line value to it, but what YOU do with your PE gives it the real value.

My first employer actually discouraged it's engineers from getting their PE's. This was for several reasons:

A - we did very little design work so there was no need for them

B - they didn't want to pay the additional costs for professional liability insurance

C - they didn't want to have to give any raises for things not used/needed

D - a PE typically indicated that the employee is on the verge of leaving because of the previous 3 reasons

If you tell them you're going to work as an EIT, they will pay you as one. Don't get mad at them if YOU refuse to be proactive and show what added value you have. They know what the PE is worth, they just want to see what YOU are worth once you get your PE. If you have a PE, but they don't need one, you may not be paid accordingly. I have seen this multiple times, hence the stereotype: change jobs to get a raise. This is more because the new company needs what you have, whereas your old company didn't.

Look at the people who did get raises after getting their PE. What else changed between them and the company? The ones who got the biggest raises took on more responsibility than just the PE. They became project managers (what I did); they became team leaders; they essentially provided more "value" to the company.

 

[Dark Knight]

Who is the fearless leader and what is the fill in the blank. Like d*ck head or something. I dont buy into that lucky to have a job bit thats a scare tactic for companies to skim more of your bill rate off the top. I did not spend 10 years getting my PE to be "lucky to have a job" I did it to make fatty money. I have been on contracting web sites and there is money to be made out there, granted this economy can force you to work overseas for a few years (if your american company whats to treat you like a 3rd world immigrant lol) but the money is out there, dont let anyone fool you.

If you became an engineer because the fatty money...sorry dude. Flash News...Somebody tricked you. But it is your right to keep trying.

Now, from a mere mortal, you have issues. You believe that because you are a PE you deserve the world and that is just wrong. The PE did not make anybody smarter, even if you felt that the day after getting the results. You are the same that applied and took the test. Period. Going around your office with an attitude because you passed a test is, excuse my Spanish, stupid and gives engineers a bad reputation. Unfortunately you are not alone. There are many like you.

Another thing; You use the term 3rd World inmigrant in a derogatory form. Who the heck do you think you are? Again...you have issues.

Quit behaving as a 4th grade kid and start behaving like an engineer, if you really are one. Looks like you know where the money is. Shut up and go after it.

Last but not least...Who is our fearless leader? Find it

What word fills the blank? When I took English 101 I was taught that after the "an" comes a vocal (yes...a,e,i,o,u). Looks like you, Mr. Fatty Money Super Engineer, do not know that. To let you know, I would use the world idiot, but somebody else may use the world ass-hole. Chances are.

 

[MechGuy]

Also the need for more stamping is only good if the stamping engineers are in very short supply and are getting HUGE fatty near 200k wages for it

What world are you living in? I don't know of any engineers with your experience making $200K. I don't know of any engineers with 20 years experience making $200K (as an engineer). I don't even think the head of my business unit or President of my division is making $200K. So what makes you think you deserve that kind of money with your limited experience (and obvious lack of a brain), just because you're a PE?

I think you're lucky to be working somewhere other than Wal-Mart my friend. I think you may even have a hard time with that profession.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Watch out for the

 

[picusld]

Playing devils advocate here:Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

Why would a licensed engineer refuse to sign a work he did?

I can speak to this from the Land Development side and a situation that I have run into...In PA, Landscape Architects have gained significant traction as to what they can stamp. Some companies allow an LA to stamp a Land Development record plan and be the responsible party for the plan while the engineer's role is to certify that the plan meets stormwater requirements.

As an example, a project that I worked on involved a building addition, new parking lot, and new storm water facilities. I did the stormwater design, but had no role in the site layout and grading. There are items on the plan that I would not want to defend if something were to happen but since I am not the responsible party, it is my obligation to bring up my objections. In the end, it is the design proffessional (in this case an LA) responsible for the plan to stand by what he has put on paper.

For most record plans that I have seen, the engineer's signature block is just a place where the engineer signs and seals.

In this case, though, there are clearly areas on the site that could be defined as "traffic engineering" involving signage and striping. Since my objections were ignored, I obviously would not want to be the only PE stamp on a record plan involving something that could be assumed to be my work.

My compromise is to have a disclaimer on the plan stating that I was only responsible for the stormwater design so that if anything does happen regarding the plan layout, I can minimize my liability in the future.

If the LA refuses to put this note on the plan... Then I won't stamp

 

[rppearso]

I've made this point before: Your pay rate is all about what you bring to the company. You may be a certified ______, but what value does that have for your employer? A PE does have a certain base-line value to it, but what YOU do with your PE gives it the real value.
My first employer actually discouraged it's engineers from getting their PE's. This was for several reasons:

A - we did very little design work so there was no need for them

B - they didn't want to pay the additional costs for professional liability insurance

C - they didn't want to have to give any raises for things not used/needed

D - a PE typically indicated that the employee is on the verge of leaving because of the previous 3 reasons

If you tell them you're going to work as an EIT, they will pay you as one. Don't get mad at them if YOU refuse to be proactive and show what added value you have. They know what the PE is worth, they just want to see what YOU are worth once you get your PE. If you have a PE, but they don't need one, you may not be paid accordingly. I have seen this multiple times, hence the stereotype: change jobs to get a raise. This is more because the new company needs what you have, whereas your old company didn't.

Look at the people who did get raises after getting their PE. What else changed between them and the company? The ones who got the biggest raises took on more responsibility than just the PE. They became project managers (what I did); they became team leaders; they essentially provided more "value" to the company.

Yes I agree, if there is no expectation of stamping and I can work as an EIT then I dont have a problem but if there are expectations of even being in responsible charge or having to sign anything (not nessicarily just stamping) then I am no longer working as an EIT but as a PE. I know of several engineers that are making either close to 200k or more than 200k, I think it depends on the disipline of engineer, the industry and the area. I am surprised that none of you have contracting offices in your area that are giving out 83% of bill rate, unless of course the raw bill rate is much lower in the lower 48.

 

[rppearso]

I don't know how you came across this belief that getting your PE was going to get you fatty money, but it is flawed. I was told multiple times throughout college that if I wanted to get rich, don't major in engineering. It's the truth. Engineers are well paid, but we are never going to get rich off of our salaries and the sooner you accept that, the more you'll start enjoying life. You just seem like a whiny little bitch if you ask me, but I digress.

Im actually not whiny I just like to blow off some steam from time to time.

 

[Ble_PE]

^Your "time to time" has been pretty much constantly since you joined last July. That's being whiny in my book.

But we all know I'm just :deadhorse:

 

[rppearso]

Playing devils advocate here:Why would an employer keep a licensed engineer on staff who refuses to stamp his own work? You designed it, right? Why would you not stamp your own work?

Why would a licensed engineer refuse to sign a work he did?

I can speak to this from the Land Development side and a situation that I have run into...In PA, Landscape Architects have gained significant traction as to what they can stamp. Some companies allow an LA to stamp a Land Development record plan and be the responsible party for the plan while the engineer's role is to certify that the plan meets stormwater requirements.

As an example, a project that I worked on involved a building addition, new parking lot, and new storm water facilities. I did the stormwater design, but had no role in the site layout and grading. There are items on the plan that I would not want to defend if something were to happen but since I am not the responsible party, it is my obligation to bring up my objections. In the end, it is the design proffessional (in this case an LA) responsible for the plan to stand by what he has put on paper.

For most record plans that I have seen, the engineer's signature block is just a place where the engineer signs and seals.

In this case, though, there are clearly areas on the site that could be defined as "traffic engineering" involving signage and striping. Since my objections were ignored, I obviously would not want to be the only PE stamp on a record plan involving something that could be assumed to be my work.

My compromise is to have a disclaimer on the plan stating that I was only responsible for the stormwater design so that if anything does happen regarding the plan layout, I can minimize my liability in the future.

If the LA refuses to put this note on the plan... Then I won't stamp

I have done similar things as an EIT for the PE I was working under regarding pipeline surge analysis which was done by a 3rd party contractor but the surge valves and closure times had to show up on our drawings so we had to put thoes disclaimers on there and then the PE stamped them (the PE that is making over 200k). It was not that we agreed or disagreed but the calcs behind there software was propriatary so we could not validate anything so the PE could not stamp it. They agreed and the drawings went forward.

 

[FLBuff PE]

I have done similar things as an EIT for the PE I was working under regarding pipeline surge analysis which was done by a 3rd party contractor but the surge valves and closure times had to show up on our drawings so we had to put thoes disclaimers on there and then the PE stamped them (the PE that is making over 200k). It was not that we agreed or disagreed but the calcs behind there software was propriatary so we could not validate anything so the PE could not stamp it. They agreed and the drawings went forward.

Should be 'their'