Hello, another newcomer, advice welcome

[EhmayWuntee P.E.]

Hello everyone, I stumbled across this site and decided to join so I can ask some questions, read advice, and get some feedback.
I apologize if this becomes a lengthy opening post, but I figured I would reach out here and see what previous test takers have to say.

I have to say that things are pretty overwhelming right now since it seems like a ton to cover in a shorter than planned amount of time.
I am planning on taking the PE transportation depth in April 2017 and hope to feel a lot more prepared as the time quickly approaches.

I have been out of school since May 2010 and passed the FE on my first try, I honestly do not recall how I felt about it at all or if I had expectations one way or the other on if I passed prior to getting the results.
Typically I have done pretty well in school and testing so hopefully I can keep that rolling with this time gap in the middle.
My initial concern is that I wasn't able to start my engineering career until 2014 so I had a fairly big lapse of zero experience and non-engineering mindset to let things fall out of memory.
I now am at 3 years of experience, but it is very broad and covers all sorts of projects since I work for a small city so I think the experience isn't as in-depth or repetitive as most would experience.
I feel like I would be most comfortable with transportation though so that is where I am focusing.

It seems like the best approach isn't to expect to know everything and be a master of the field, but instead to know where to look and apply the tools/formulas properly to solve the PE problems, would this be correct?

I must say that the cost of everything has me caught off guard.
I am working on getting the NCEES recommended references and I think my employer is willing to help out and cover the AASHTO books since they could be used at the work place so that will be a big help.
I recently picked up the All-In-One exam guide that I have seen mentioned multiple times and am just now looking at it for the first time.
Unfortunately it still seems to require a good amount of recollection on things because to keep it shortened it just jumps past some explanations or details and I find it hard to follow.
I am hoping more time and practice will clear things up because I am not a big fan of in-depth chapter reading to try and relearn things.

The biggest expense that caught me off guard is the optional review courses offered.
I realize that some likely have a great track record and bring the pass rate up a lot, but it is tough for me to stomach the idea of $1,500+ to cover both AM and PM sessions.
Has the vast majority of people who have bit the bullet and taken these review courses felt that the cost was justified or worthwhile?
Right now I am going to avoid the course due to the expense, but at the same time could see it likely filling in the gaps for me if there is focused lecturing for a bit as it leads into practice problems on each section.
In other words, I do see some value in it and see how it can help, especially for me being out of the scene for a bit, but not at a value of over $1000.

One more thing to add is that yes I will be taking the exam at my 3 year experience mark since my state allows it so it isn't the end of the world if I do not pass the first time, but I have never been one to not want to get things "one-and-done".
I suppose if I do need a 2nd attempt, then I can rethink the paid review course route, but hopefully I can get just enough study hours under my belt to get a passing grade the first time.
With only a few months to prep though, I am not sure I will be able to get past maybe 120 hours of studying which seems to be set up to fail in some degree since I came across a recommendation of 200+ hours as a good goal.

Is there any general advice or materials that you can provide me to help make the most out of my shortened review time so it can be effective and efficient?

Thank you for any feedback you may provide.

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

Welcome to the group. I am also prepping for the April exam, but I will be taking the construction portion. The one part of your post that stuck out to me is not having to be a master of the field and just know where to look up the information. While the test is open book, it is a slippery path if you rely heavily on just searching your references for all the questions instead of trying to master as many of the topic areas as possible before hand. You can tab your books to make it easier to find stuff, but at the same time, you do not want to spend more time during the test searching through books then working on problems. Even if you find the material in the reference books, you will not have much time during the test to try and figure out/learn the topic areas on the fly as the questions pop-up.

Yes, know your references and use them for your advantage, but don't prepare for the test expecting to be able to look up all questions. 

 

[jijir83]

Is there any general advice or materials that you can provide me to help make the most out of my shortened review time so it can be effective and efficient?

It's a daunting task but it's possible if you can put in the time between now and the test. Some people just wing it and pass and some people need 300+ hours of studying. The key is to practice problems using your references. The All-in-One will do just fine for the morning session. Find some OSHA supplement for construction/safety/excavation to go with it. For the afternoon, you'll need your transpo references. The All-in-One will be of little help. It has a good Geotech section but not much else. When I say Geotech, I lump in soil testing, sampling, soil mechanics, seepage, channel flow, wall support, shallow foundation and piles (piles is a little light). Anything else seems pretty thin so the transpo references that you gather really have to cover the topic because All-in-One won't help much for the depth portion of the test.

As far as preparation with the time that you have, if you make it a point to practice 10 problems everyday or a few times per week, then you'll be in good shape. Later on you'll be able to do 20 without too much strain within 2 hours. You have to gather a good number of relevant practice problems and use them with all of your references. By practicing, I mean to go ahead and do the problems. Don't get sucked into doing one problem then figuring out the solution in that same seating. That largely reduces the number of problem exposure that you see. You might get tired or discouraged at the end of 10 problems and decide to continue on the next day. That's ok. But the next time you look at them (or the next day), after solving them, use them as study material. Find out what you did wrong, what you didn't understand properly and find out why that is using your other references and All-in-One. I suggest you start with a few NCEES practice/old exams and Goswami's new practice exams (post 2015). They are easier and seem more representative of test questions. From what I've heard, NCEES old exams are outdated so don't dwell on the types of questions that they've removed from the test plan. But I still found them useful for studying. Goswami's old exams and the ones in his All-in-One practice book will help you learn a lot but they are lengthy, much harder and discouraging. They're better left if you're trying to understand something in more depth but can't figure it out. At least you can attempt those problems then and follow the solution when you're done. If you put in 20-24 hours per week doing the above to start, over the next month, you'll know exactly where you stand and how much ramping up you need to do. The time goes by pretty fast if you break it up between weekdays and weekend. At the end of 12 weeks you'll be close to 300 hours. Personally, I put in a few hours a few nights during the week after work and 12 hours between Saturdays and Sundays. I was studying for other tests so I couldn't do more but I know I did over 200 problems in that timeframe.

Doing problems with your references will help you 1) get started, 2) figure out what references you're missing, 3) tab references efficiently and 4) get you learning various topics without reading the book from cover to cover. As you get further along and feel more confident after doing a bunch of problems, you'll be able to do an exam set to practice and feel much better about them. Whatever you do, don't neglect studying for the morning portion. Your depth score alone will not carry you.

Think of it this way... Preparation for the test is like getting a project in which you have limited background. You look up stuff and do your research before designing or working on it. The more you look by practicing problems, the more familiar you get and the easier it gets. But the key is to see a variety of problems so that come design time you know exactly what the goal is, you know how to do it without much help, and if you don't then you know where to find equations quickly to solve.

Good luck!

 

[EhmayWuntee P.E.]

Welcome to the group. I am also prepping for the April exam, but I will be taking the construction portion. The one part of your post that stuck out to me is not having to be a master of the field and just know where to look up the information. While the test is open book, it is a slippery path if you rely heavily on just searching your references for all the questions instead of trying to master as many of the topic areas as possible before hand. You can tab your books to make it easier to find stuff, but at the same time, you do not want to spend more time during the test searching through books then working on problems. Even if you find the material in the reference books, you will not have much time during the test to try and figure out/learn the topic areas on the fly as the questions pop-up.

Yes, know your references and use them for your advantage, but don't prepare for the test expecting to be able to look up all questions. 

Thank you for the welcome and yes sorry if I didn't explain myself well enough, I suppose I meant it as a bit more in the middle in the sense of not memorizing every equation and thing to the point that you technically don't even need a book, but just enough to know where to turn and how to apply your tools to get the answer.
I agree I don't want to be trying to skim and learn a topic or why they chose one formula over the other, that type of question I just need to skip, come back at the end, and worst case take an educated guess. Hopefully those are slim to none come test day.
Certainly I'd love to need less and less reliance on reference material especially since we are on the clock, but I don't see myself getting to a complete mastery phase without 300+ hours or paying the big money on a review course to help.

Good luck to you in April!

It's a daunting task but it's possible if you can put in the time between now and the test. Some people just wing it and pass and some people need 300+ hours of studying. The key is to practice problems using your references. The All-in-One will do just fine for the morning session. Find some OSHA supplement for construction/safety/excavation to go with it. For the afternoon, you'll need your transpo references. The All-in-One will be of little help. It has a good Geotech section but not much else. When I say Geotech, I lump in soil testing, sampling, soil mechanics, seepage, channel flow, wall support, shallow foundation and piles (piles is a little light). Anything else seems pretty thin so the transpo references that you gather really have to cover the topic because All-in-One won't help much for the depth portion of the test.

As far as preparation with the time that you have, if you make it a point to practice 10 problems everyday or a few times per week, then you'll be in good shape. Later on you'll be able to do 20 without too much strain within 2 hours. You have to gather a good number of relevant practice problems and use them with all of your references. By practicing, I mean to go ahead and do the problems. Don't get sucked into doing one problem then figuring out the solution in that same seating. That largely reduces the number of problem exposure that you see. You might get tired or discouraged at the end of 10 problems and decide to continue on the next day. That's ok. But the next time you look at them (or the next day), after solving them, use them as study material. Find out what you did wrong, what you didn't understand properly and find out why that is using your other references and All-in-One. I suggest you start with a few NCEES practice/old exams and Goswami's new practice exams (post 2015). They are easier and seem more representative of test questions. From what I've heard, NCEES old exams are outdated so don't dwell on the types of questions that they've removed from the test plan. But I still found them useful for studying. Goswami's old exams and the ones in his All-in-One practice book will help you learn a lot but they are lengthy, much harder and discouraging. They're better left if you're trying to understand something in more depth but can't figure it out. At least you can attempt those problems then and follow the solution when you're done. If you put in 20-24 hours per week doing the above to start, over the next month, you'll know exactly where you stand and how much ramping up you need to do. The time goes by pretty fast if you break it up between weekdays and weekend. At the end of 12 weeks you'll be close to 300 hours. Personally, I put in a few hours a few nights during the week after work and 12 hours between Saturdays and Sundays. I was studying for other tests so I couldn't do more but I know I did over 200 problems in that timeframe.

Doing problems with your references will help you 1) get started, 2) figure out what references you're missing, 3) tab references efficiently and 4) get you learning various topics without reading the book from cover to cover. As you get further along and feel more confident after doing a bunch of problems, you'll be able to do an exam set to practice and feel much better about them. Whatever you do, don't neglect studying for the morning portion. Your depth score alone will not carry you.

Think of it this way... Preparation for the test is like getting a project in which you have limited background. You look up stuff and do your research before designing or working on it. The more you look by practicing problems, the more familiar you get and the easier it gets. But the key is to see a variety of problems so that come design time you know exactly what the goal is, you know how to do it without much help, and if you don't then you know where to find equations quickly to solve.

Good luck!

Thank you for the advice, I think I need to go more into practice problem mode and then reference the chapter if I am lost as opposed to looking into a chapter and then trying a few problems or following an example.
I am slowly trying to build my transportation references, but there are quite a lot to track down and I wasn't sure if every one was truly needed, but then again NCEES knows what they are doing...

I did just receive the lastest NCEES practice exam in the mail and I thought the all-in-one book would have a good amount of problems in the back, but you are suggesting I also look at another Goswami book just with practice problems as well?
Questions that best represent the exam certainly seem like the smart way to go.
How do I go about acquiring an older NCEES practice exam, are they just resales on ebay usually?
Also, along with this, how do you check the date of the practice exam (the cover doesn't seem to say a version or something)?
I guess a third question with it is how often do they release a new practice exam, yearly or just every time the syllabus changes?

My initial plan was to try for 1-2 hours on weekdays and then 4-5 hours Saturday and Sunday, so 13-20 hours total. It sounds like I really need to force myself to dive in a little harder and commit to studying at least 20 hours per week if I want to stand a decent chance.
Part of this though will be to make sure I have the references with me so I am working the problems with them and effectively tabbing so I suppose I need to organize my ordering of books this week.

If you don't mind me asking, were you successful in passing the exam the first time while studying those 200+ problems on your own?

 

[jijir83]

Thank you for the advice, I think I need to go more into practice problem mode and then reference the chapter if I am lost as opposed to looking into a chapter and then trying a few problems or following an example.
I am slowly trying to build my transportation references, but there are quite a lot to track down and I wasn't sure if every one was truly needed, but then again NCEES knows what they are doing...

I did just receive the lastest NCEES practice exam in the mail and I thought the all-in-one book would have a good amount of problems in the back, but you are suggesting I also look at another Goswami book just with practice problems as well?
Questions that best represent the exam certainly seem like the smart way to go.
How do I go about acquiring an older NCEES practice exam, are they just resales on ebay usually?
Also, along with this, how do you check the date of the practice exam (the cover doesn't seem to say a version or something)?
I guess a third question with it is how often do they release a new practice exam, yearly or just every time the syllabus changes?

My initial plan was to try for 1-2 hours on weekdays and then 4-5 hours Saturday and Sunday, so 13-20 hours total. It sounds like I really need to force myself to dive in a little harder and commit to studying at least 20 hours per week if I want to stand a decent chance.
Part of this though will be to make sure I have the references with me so I am working the problems with them and effectively tabbing so I suppose I need to organize my ordering of books this week.

If you don't mind me asking, were you successful in passing the exam the first time while studying those 200+ problems on your own?

Yes, I passed on my first try focusing on practice problems to study topics.

When I started, it was really overwhelming. Gathering references was taking time and I was running out of time yet didn't feel like I had gathered nearly what I needed. Once I started doing problems with just the All-in-One, I figured out what else I needed for the morning portion. That also helped with gathering extra references for the afternoon portion. But for Geotech, we don't need nearly as many compared to transpo. Tabbing my school notes and a couple school books did the trick.

From what I understand, PPI and NCEES sell practice exams and problems. They should have the copyright year on the site. That should tell you what year they were published. If you get them from friends, you'll notice that the pre-2014 ones have environmental and water questions that are no longer part of the test plan. I'm not sure how often they publish them but the ones I had are not consecutive years so it's probably not yearly. They are sample problems that NCEES put together after they retire certain questions but they are a good place to warm up. The ones I had are from various people who've gathered them from elsewhere. People on here have been known to share as well. Ebay and Amazon are other sources too. And yes, Goswami published breadth and depth practice problems in September 2015 after the test got revised that Spring. The geotech one was worth the money. The separate companion practice book that comes with the All-in-One and the problems in the All-in-One are more for challenging yourself or getting in-depth understanding. I found many of them really hard and they were nothing like the test.

You can probably get away with less hours but I'd suggest starting with more hours and ease up or ramp up as you feel needed. I think I overdid it. By the time I took the test, it felt like I studied for a whole year but it paid off so I have no regrets

 

[EhmayWuntee P.E.]

Perhaps I am too new so I don't see all the options yet, but how do you give out rep on this site?
It looks like I can't edit my own posts either, is that normal or another new member deal that changes after like 30 days?

I suppose when I get home I need to look for a new member FAQ to learn a few things here.

 

[jijir83]

Perhaps I am too new so I don't see all the options yet, but how do you give out rep on this site?
It looks like I can't edit my own posts either, is that normal or another new member deal that changes after like 30 days?

I suppose when I get home I need to look for a new member FAQ to learn a few things here.

I think only supporting members get other features. There isn't a quota or new/old rule from what I can tell. I had hundreds of posts and had no ability to edit or like until I became one.

 

[EhmayWuntee P.E.]

I think only contributing members get other features. There isn't a quota or new/old rule from what I can tell. I had hundreds of posts and had no ability to edit or like until I became one.

OK thank you, I suppose that makes some sense and obviously the admins can set the rules as they desire.

Consider this to be the next best thing, +1 e-rep to you jijir83 for your advice.

lusone: