GM Bankruptcy - thoughts?

[FLBuff PE]

Maybe corporations that are 'too big to fail' should be broken up...

Sounds similar to what happened to Ma Bell. Just for a different reason. I don't disagree with you, Cappy.

 

[MA_PE]

I think a similar paradigm is what caused GM's downfall. They stopped being a corporation that built cars and started being a health care/retirement program that used car sales to fund the system.

True to a fault. The "old way" was to take care of dedicated employees who had provided years of service to the mothership. this system (just like social security) works as long as your generating enough revenue to sustain it. Times change. Through the miracles of modern medicine, people are living longer and newer (more expensive) treatments are available. This translates to providing more benefits for a longer period of time. This evolution was parallel to advancements in manufacturing techniques so the work was easier and less people were needed. Unions fought at both ends; we can't get rid of people and we can't reduce benefits. The company's policies (just like the government's) didn't change with the times.

How was GM fleecing anybody? With the contracts that the UAW was getting, I'd say it was the other way around. Don't you think the union has at least some culpability in not having as many jobs as they had. And how much money should they get paid for operating a wrench, which I'm sure any one of us can do.

My fleecing comment was directed to your blanket statement that the primary function of a business is to make money. If you get away with it, fleecing people makes a lot of money. As far as GM is concerned, they could be accused of "fleecing" people during the late 70's and early 80's where the quality of the product deteriorated and the prices skyrocketed. It was this period where the American buying public lost faith in the Amercan manufacturers and started touting the benefits of Toyota and Honda. American market share plummeted and they never got it back.

FWIW: I see the same thing with Kia and Hyundai compared to Toyota and Honda. I think the two former are making a bargain priced quality product, they're standing by them for 10yrs/100k. Toyota and Honda are living on public opinion and trying to maximize sales dollars.

just my :2cents:

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Through the miracles of modern medicine, people are living longer and newer (more expensive) treatments are available. This translates to providing more benefits for a longer period of time.

Then another thing that probably needs to be discussed is prolonging the time before retirement.

 

[CbusPaul]

I think the generation of workers just out of school will be lucky to get any retirement at all.

 

[Supe]

I think the generation of workers just out of school will be lucky to get any retirement at all.

Yep. All I've got thus far aside from traditional savings is a 401k that continues to lose money.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I think the generation of workers just out of school will be lucky to get any retirement at all.

I'll be lucky if I get it and I'm 43.

Yep. All I've got thus far aside from traditional savings is a 401k that continues to lose money.

I hear you. I've lost 50% of my retirement savings twice in the last ten years.

 

[CbusPaul]

It would be nice if they privatized social security and we could get the 6.2% for ourselves and maybe some of the company match. But at this point, the Ponzi scheme would fall apart if they privatized so I'm just dreaming.

 

[Kephart P.E.]

Read this rather interesting article on why GM failed.
The thing about business is, if you don't keep up with technology & trends, then the market will run off and leave you.

I also agree about the number of dealers. There are too many here.

GM management made many many horrible mistakes, but the Union Contracts they had where by you got no benefit from building more efficient production lines, because you had to pay people you laid off never made any business sense. In effect the Union screwed themselves AND GM. But it is still on the Management for signing the contract.

 

[MGX]

I heard a news report of talks about selling Hummer to a Chinese company.

I certainly don't expect GM or Chrysler to ever return to the same place of prominence; I understand the 'car czar' is a 31 year old who didn't finish law school. This is excellent news for Toyota and Honda.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Toyota and Honda had pretty bad May sales..38 and 39% drop respectively.

It ain't just GM and Chrysler.

 

[roadwreck]

I heard a news report of talks about selling Hummer to a Chinese company.

That's what is being reported.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/02/news/compa...sion=2009060207

That just seems messed up.

 

[MGX]

Toyota and Honda had pretty bad May sales..38 and 39% drop respectively.
It ain't just GM and Chrysler.

Not today but in the future. With federal mismanagement and interference GM and Chrysler will probably be suited only to produce vehicles for the consumption of the federal government leaving Toyota and Honda free to produce for-profit vehicles.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Not today but in the future. With federal mismanagement and interference GM and Chrysler will probably be suited only to produce vehicles for the consumption of the federal government leaving Toyota and Honda free to produce for-profit vehicles.

Oh, I see. Concur.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^The next step will be to impose large taxes on the non-government owned/managed car manufacturers to "level the playing field". Protectionist policies have failed everywhere they've been tried.

 

[MA_PE]

Not today but in the future. With federal mismanagement and interference GM and Chrysler will probably be suited only to produce vehicles for the consumption of the federal government leaving Toyota and Honda free to produce for-profit vehicles.

and we know the gubberment ain't "car guys" or at least they can't admit it.

They must restrict themselves to functional, efficient transportation. i.e. NO FUN STUFF!

 

[MGX]

I've worked on government projects and now appreciate where $600 hammers come from.

$80K Cobalt/Malibu anyone?

I heard a quip from Michael Moore that the feds should confiscate GM's factories to make buses and trains. :ghey:

 

[FLBuff PE]

I've worked on government projects and now appreciate where $600 hammers come from.
$80K Cobalt/Malibu anyone?

I heard a quip from Michael Moore that the feds should confiscate GM's factories to make buses and trains. :ghey:

That's the way Europe does it...must be better.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

They must restrict themselves to functional, efficient transportation. i.e. NO FUN STUFF!

Unfortunately for us car enthusiasts, 95% of the populace sees their car as an appliance to get from one place to another in comfort.

I heard a quip from Michael Moore that the feds should confiscate GM's factories to make buses and trains. :ghey:

That's the way Europe does it...must be better.

Well played, sir! Well played!

I do wonder if the gov will make cars less comfy and convenient to try and 'persuade' us to use mass transit. If they do, it will really blow up in their faces. Although most people see their car as an apppliance, they love the freedom they get from it.

 

[SuperAlpha]

awaiting the new government mandates forcing the competetors out of business....only .gov approved vehicles allowed, and only GM vehicles get approval......communism has a foothold....

 

[MGX]

I saw GM's commercial on TV last night; GM apologizing for sucking so hard but to please buy their stuff because they're working so hard. This convinces me to stop being a Ford guy not one bit.