csb
Well-known member
Just for the sake of argument, how long do you envision everyone still having traditional landlines in their homes? I'm imagining providing a cell phone is cheaper than a landline at this point.
Free Cell Phones for the Poor
- Thread starter Capt Worley PE
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Help Support Professional Engineer & PE Exam Forum:
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
Some people *gasp* don't have homes.
Those people could use cell phones easier than they use landlines.
As for the comment about abundant streetcorner pay phones.. no, they're not as abundant as they used to be, but I can name 5 locations with them within walking distance of my home and 5 more within walking distance of my office. The phones wouldn't be stolen/sold for cash because they're valuable in and of themselves - they'll be traded to drug dealers, pimps and hookers for an "untraceable" style of phone call.
As with any sort of government support program, the ideal isn't to provide perfect support... it's to provide enough support to do what needs doing, while making it unpleasant enough that you want to get off the system. That's where I disagree with food stamps - don't hand those out, spend a bit of cash developing cheap, alternatives that fit every dietary need (like MREs, except with allergen-free varieties) and hand those out instead. If every meal is identically bad, it encourages people to get jobs (better or otherwise). Of course, I also disagree with straight-up welfare for the unemployed; give them *jobs*, not welfare. Have them wander around the city cleaning up graffiti, or cleaning up the sides of roads, or doing construction, or provide a replacement for the "migrating work force" that handles agricultural work. Anything, so long as it's either hard work or provides training so they can get a better job.
(Sorry for going a bit far afield there)
snickerd3
Taking suggestions
Forever. Unless you live a booming large city cell phone signal gets crappy out in the country as does the response systems. A 911 call from a cell with no other info can only get emergency personel to the vacinity of the tower from which the call was made. It will not get them the address of the house. land lines will also work without electricity...provided you have a non digital phone somewhere in the house.
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
With just a quick and dirty Google search, I found that the cheapest landline plan is $14.95/mo. from AT&T. The cheapest cell phone plan I could find was $35 from Cricket. Not to mention the fact that unsubsidized cell phone handsets are significantly more expensive than land line phones.
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
Actually my understanding is that the cell call thing is no longer true. All cells are supposed to have GPS trackers in them now, that activate when they are making 911 calls. Though I imagine that this feature will be removed from any cheap-use phone to reduce overhead.
Master slacker
Something awesome.
Do they live in a f'ing box? Even if they do, are they going to charge their cell phone off the magical outlet on one of the box flaps? Come on, gimme a break.
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
No, they live in shelters, sometimes staying at a different one each night. I have a friend that is doing this while attending a fairly expensive college - she lost her part-time nursing job because her patient (a relative) went insane and needed better care than she could provide.Do they live in a f'ing box? Even if they do, are they going to charge their cell phone off the magical outlet on one of the box flaps? Come on, gimme a break.
the shelters have phones as well as people (gov't paid employees as well as volunteers) thje "residents" don't need their own phones to call for help.No, they live in shelters, sometimes staying at a different one each night. I have a friend that is doing this while attending a fairly expensive college - she lost her part-time nursing job because her patient (a relative) went insane and needed better care than she could provide.Do they live in a f'ing box? Even if they do, are they going to charge their cell phone off the magical outlet on one of the box flaps? Come on, gimme a break.
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
You seem to have an anecdote for every entitlement program. I just have trouble finding any empathy for your protagonists.
picusld
Well-known member
it is never the homeless person's fault for being homeless...No, they live in shelters, sometimes staying at a different one each night. I have a friend that is doing this while attending a fairly expensive college - she lost her part-time nursing job because her patient (a relative) went insane and needed better care than she could provide.Do they live in a f'ing box? Even if they do, are they going to charge their cell phone off the magical outlet on one of the box flaps? Come on, gimme a break.
Advice to friend...
Join military which will pay for school and put a roof over her head.
Probably easier to be a victim though...
Ever hear the phrase "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"?
csb
Well-known member
:blink:
I'm going to take the bait. What is your friend studying? Was it really a part-time nursing job, or was she taking care of an ill relative and living there for free?
EDIT: Hold on, I've seen this one. Is your friend hoping for a walk-on spot at Notre Dame?
Last edited by a moderator:
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
Somehow this sounds familiar, as though I'd suggested it (or a variation thereof) earlier.
Nah, I just know a diverse bunch of people online. Between my hobbies, my friends and their hobbies, there's not a lot of groups I don't have direct or indirect contact with.
Actually, I think she's an Army brat (or at least has a lot of family in the army) - she tried to join up, but was unable to do so for medical reasons.
She's training to become a counselor. And it wasn't nursing, sorry, it was caretaking. She was working through an agency though, both before and after - she lost her apt in the time between jobs, and hasn't been able to replace it since.
picusld
Well-known member
So going to an expensive school to make 25k a year at graduation?
Really?
I am sure that when she can't pay her school loans, that won't be her fault either...
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
No, she's working on a subspecialty of counseling - she'll probably make rather more than that if she wants to (though I don't think she does; she's more of a "help people to help people" kind of person). Though I think she mostly has grants and scholarships, not loans.
Master slacker
Something awesome.
Good grief. You DO have an anecdote for everything.
Staying at different shelters every night.
You know everybody online and know intimate details of each of their lives.
Army potential, but refused for medical reasons (unknown, evidently...)
Going to expensive school to be a counselor. Not a low-paid one, but a specialist. What type, pray tell?
Probably will make a modest income, but has scholarships and grants, the whiz-bang response for "Need to justify an expensive school choice for modest income potential degree" inquiries.
:huh:
Staying at different shelters every night.
You know everybody online and know intimate details of each of their lives.
Army potential, but refused for medical reasons (unknown, evidently...)
Going to expensive school to be a counselor. Not a low-paid one, but a specialist. What type, pray tell?
Probably will make a modest income, but has scholarships and grants, the whiz-bang response for "Need to justify an expensive school choice for modest income potential degree" inquiries.
:huh:
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
I know, I'm weird - I actually pay attention to my friend's FB posts. (I have 92 FB friends between two accounts and 519 people in circles on G+ ... with very little overlap)
*I* do not remember what the reason they turned her away for was. She would have been DADT'd out in any case.
She actually isn't staying at different shelters every night. She's only been bounced to 5 or 6 different ones in the past month, and has spent a few nights out of them.
She's going to a private *religious* school... I assume it's expensive. This, incidentally, is why I'm trying to be a bit cagey; she's afraid that if her school (a conservative one) finds out her orientation they will throw her out, and no other school will recognize her religious credits. She's seemed confident that she can make it if she can just survive school. Since she hasn't mentioned loans in her various comments about how her life is going but *has* written about having to file grant/scholarship paperwork, I'm assuming she doesn't have much in the way of loans.
Exception Collection
Civil P.E., Washington
Well, it's rather a bit off topic, but if you want to go there we can.
Depends on what you mean by "the government", and depends on the specific line items. My ideal system is one where a nearly fully-transparent government insurance plan is available, one that the people can oversee to ensure that it is paying the minimum possible for the required treatments, but is required to be available to everyone. Competing with other insurance companies would need to, well, compete. This would prevent the system from being overloaded by those that can't pay, and if it's open enough it will expose the industry's practices as unethical. Currently, I have insurance - and I pay more in direct healthcare costs per year because of the insurance than I would without it (that is, doctors charge me twice what they would charge people without insurance... even though I don't hit the deductible most of the time). If an organization can't compete with the government by offering a superior product... then why are they in business?
Do I think that they should pay for medicines? Yes. The ones I'm on are cheap ($13.33/30 days for one, $10/30 for the other), but many trans people have health issues that require they use injections (which are healthier in general) instead.
Do I think they should pay for therapy? Probably. Again, this is a relatively low-cost item, and quite frankly improves lives and attitudes on a level that others simply cannot understand.
Do I think they should pay for major appearance issues? Maybe - I'm specifically thinking electrolysis or laser hair removal on the face here. Getting rid of that is vital to any MtF trans person; it's the single biggest easily correctable issue that clocks us.
Do I think they should pay for minor appearance issues? Probably not. Here I'm thinking hair removal of the rest of the body (just wear some clothes), breast implants (let them grow, and wear falsies in the meantime), "tracheal shave" (eliminates the adam's apple), and other general appearance issues.
Should they pay for clothing/mannerism training/voice training? No.
Should they pay for SRS (reassignment surgery)? Here, it varies. I think that Orchiectomies (removal of the testicles) should be covered, since it provides a vast reduction in the dangers involved in the medicines (the anti-androgen is the most damaging medicine we take, and Orchi removes the need for it). The remainder of the process is a bit different - the question is, is it reconstructive (like post-mastectomy breast enhancement), therapeutic (like tonsil removal or gastric bypasses for a morbidly obese person), or is it cosmetic (like breast implants). To me, it's a combination of reconstructive and therapeutic - and that, to me, indicates that it's a medical necessity *for me*.
Incidentally, the IRS will allow me to write it off on my taxes, after a court case determined that it was a valid medical expense. Which indicates that this issue has, in a way, already been decided.
I would take almost the exact opposite view in that none of that should be paid. While I respect your choice, I believe it is just that, a choice and no entity should be required to pay for the treatment and care of that choice.
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