Let me apologize now for the length of this, but I feel a rant coming on...
I think that certain engineering fields, especially civil, have become so broad that additional credit hours would probably be a good idea just to get a BS. I mean, check out the environmental field. There's so much overlap between the "environmental" and "civil" branches of engineering, that I wonder what the purpose of either is. For example, if I become licensed as an Environmental Engineer, in my state at least and pretty much every other state I have researched (especially CA which doesn't even recognize Env.), anyone with a Civil PE can legally do what I do - there's no difference in the public's eye between the two. Except that I won't be allowed to do the other stuff a CE can do. So I would argue that either "Civil" engineering needs to be broken up into "smaller chunks," or that the "Civil" degree needs to become at least a five-year program.
On the other hand, I agree that a graduate degree is no indication at all of actual ability or skill in the real world. That's what I thought the PE licensing system was all about. I have worked with countless MS and PhD's who could barely find their way to the bathroom, and by far the highest turnover I have seen in all the fields I have worked in so far has been among those holding graduate degrees. Maybe they expect more from their employment, or maybe the extra schooling just dulls their ability to accept the sometimes menial tasks that everyone has to face once in a while in the real world.
"oldtimer" "Why I remember..." way back when I started working in the oil field as a well logging engineer, my first job out of engineering school, the company I worked for (Schlumberger Well Services) was in the midst of a new recruiting strategy to aim for only the best & brightest from North America's top geology schools. Their professional recruiters wined & dined MS and PhD candidates, took them on ski trips, you name it. I ended up getting thrown in with this lot simply because my non-geology university was nearby to one of their field offices, and I thought it sounded cool to not have to go to work behind a desk. No wining and dining. So I end up in their training school in Canada a few months later with the best and the brightest of North American geology. The training consisted of a 2-month "boot camp" of 6 days a week, sometimes 24-hours a day classroom and field training focused on theory, performance, and equipment repair/maintenance. Real hands-on stuff. At the end of the two months, at the top of the class was myself and one other lowly BS holder from Canada. Within 6 months, back in the actual "field," we were the only two left out of the original group. The rest had all left. Good guys and gals, don't get me wrong, they just weren't cut out for the pressures of that particular type of work. (to be fair, not many people are, and the turnover rate is pretty much the same no matter what pool they recruit from).
But that's not to say that I don't think there's any value in higher degrees or more education. But I do believe that such things are of more value later in one's career, once a person knows what they want to be doing. I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to go straight from a BS to a graduate program, until they have worked for a while, unless they only intend to work as a "scientist" or remain in academics. But that's just my opinion. I agree that NCEES seems to be under the undue influence of academics. I believe that a BS in engineering, plus relevant work experience, the ability to pass the PE in your primary field, and quality continuing education should continue to be the focus. The PE is a professional certification; not a degree. If NCEES thinks the current engineering curricula (?) are not adequate, then this is something I feel ABET should deal with strictly within the confines of their academic kingdom. If ABET says 5 years are required for an engineering BS, then you will hear no argument from me. But NCEES telling us that we need more schooling... well...
And what is this going to mean in the long run for people like me, who have switched fields since graduating? (now you see the real motivation for the rant. It's always about ME) Will we fall through the cracks? Will we get left sitting in the office, preparing all the work for the 20-something MS holder to stamp for us? Reviewing his drawings? Holding his hand while we help him find his way to the bathroom? Giving up our window desk because he has a masters degree, and we don't? :true:
The states have developed their licensing regulations for a reason. Anyone who works in any regulatory field can tell you that one size DOES NOT FIT ALL. Hence the varying levels of experience required depending on the type of degree you hold, and the ability for the board to consider each applicant on an individual basis (which also opens the door to abuses, but that's life). I hope the states continue with that policy, unless of course ABET steps forward to do their job, so that NCEES doesn't feel the need to.
At any rate, this probably won't affect any of us, so why worry?
Rant off. (where's the rant on/off emoticon?)
ld timer:
