Could what's happening in Egypt happen here?

[ALBin517]

I have to say that if 401(k)s got absorbed into the Social Security, I'd be ready for war myself, but I mean seriously, is there any chance of that happening? I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm seriously asking, is that even possible?

I found out the hard way that lawyers can do almost anything ... including take your supposedly untouchable 401K.

I love the logic:

"Folks can't manage their own retirement because they will eff it up and lose all their money."

So what do you want to do with it?

"Put it in Social Security."

????

Using that logic, I might lose my car keys so the government should just take them now and throw them down a well.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^Except they won't tell you they are throwing the keys down the well. That would be bad politics (otherwise known as honesty). As a favor to you, they will be putting your keys in a safe place for you to use later in life. They will then take your car and drive it until it's value has depreciated to zero. If you're lucky, they'll let you know which scrap yard they dumped it at when they're finished.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

And, if they start, it will begin as a voluntary thing at first, then become mandatory. And yeah, they'll make it sound like a fovor, as if they are saving us.

 

[Dark Knight]

Back to the topic...The Egipcian President just quit today.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Quitter.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Prepare for Iran II and don't be surprised if they close the Suez canal...

 

[ALBin517]

^Except they won't tell you they are throwing the keys down the well. That would be bad politics (otherwise known as honesty). As a favor to you, they will be putting your keys in a safe place for you to use later in life. They will then take your car and drive it until it's value has depreciated to zero. If you're lucky, they'll let you know which scrap yard they dumped it at when they're finished.

The primary problem with government-managed retirement plans (in my opinion) is that the government is run by politicians who don’t care what happens after they leave office. So when the average political term is 5 years and the average person won’t retire for 20 years, what do you think will happen?

 

[Flyer_PE]

Prepare for Iran II and don't be surprised if they close the Suez canal...

Not sure how well the parallel between Iran and Egypt will hold up. I think it's all going to come down to where the Egyptian military casts its lot. Only time will tell.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

If I had to put money on it, I'd say you'll see a radical Islamist government in place in the not too distant future. Government overthrows generally don't end all that well. you usually end up with something worse than you had to begin with.

 

[FusionWhite]

I doubt Iran II will happen. For one I dont think they would hesitate to use the military against protesters in Iran if it gets even close to what we are seeing in Egypt. The Revolutionary Guard is the real political power in Iran and they will crush any attempt at revolt. Im surprised they didnt come down even more heavy handed after the election.

And why would Egypt close the Suez Canal? The only scenario in which it would have benefited anyone in Egypt would have been for Mubarak to order the closing of the Suez as a ploy to force the US et al to back him and keep him in power (using the canal as a hostage basically). Now that hes resigned it doesnt benefit anyone in Egypt to force the international community to throw support to whoever will keep the canal open. If the military takes over and closes the canal the 13 billion dollars we send them in military aid each year will go bye-bye instantly. If the pro-democracy/Muslim Brotherhood snatches power and pulls that I can guarantee you the State Department/CIA/NSA/Defense Department will go full bore into "Regime Change" mode.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I doubt Iran II will happen. For one I dont think they would hesitate to use the military against protesters in Iran if it gets even close to what we are seeing in Egypt. The Revolutionary Guard is the real political power in Iran and they will crush any attempt at revolt. Im surprised they didnt come down even more heavy handed after the election.

I meant that Egypt will become the next 1979 version of Iran.

And why would Egypt close the Suez Canal?

The Muslim brotherhood could very well do it to spite the West. It would be cutting off their nose to spit their face, but not at all beyond the realm of possibility.

If the pro-democracy/Muslim Brotherhood snatches power and pulls that I can guarantee you the State Department/CIA/NSA/Defense Department will go full bore into "Regime Change" mode.

I wouldn't count on that. I'm getting the impression that O-man is down with what's happening right now.

 

[Flyer_PE]

I read this in an opinion piece this morning and it expresses my thinking on this better than I could. Something to keep in mind for analyzing any of this:

Here's one of the big problems in modern news coverage: We have no way of knowing what is going out three inches or three thousand miles outside the frame of the television camera. We spent the day being treated to the often hyperventilated coverage of what had been going on in Tahrir Square. Let's say there were 100,000 people there on Thursday. Egypt is a country of 80 million. We have no idea what the other 79,900,000 people were doing because they are outside the frame.

 

[FusionWhite]

So the Egyptians have managed to pull off a relatively peaceful (300+ deaths Ive heard, not bad considering most uprisings like this end up as blood baths) overthrow of the government in the name of Democracy. The military is saying they will guarantee free and fair elections. Now if all of that comes to pass isnt that what we should want. Isnt the goal to give the countries in the middle east Democracies? Or are we only looking for Democracies that agree with us? That would be nice but it wont happen.

If Egypt holds free and fair elections and votes in radical Islamists then who are we to say that their Democracy is a bad thing? The US has a long history of spouting a love of freedom while supporting tyrannical dictators (like the one in Egypt). Now dont get me wrong, I think a radical Islamic nation in control of the Suez Canal and on the border with Israel is a bad thing, but how can you/we (you being someone reading this, we meaing the US as a country in general) support fighting two wars in which we are trying to "bring" Democracy's to other countries and then turn your nose up at what results in Egypt?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Well, and another thing is the media just sucks, too. Just the other day, I was watching CBS news and heard "It was a day of calm in Egypt today." I switched over to ABC (I can't stand Katie the Commie Couric), and heard, "It was a day of unprecedented violence in Egypt today."

 

[pabelong PE]

At the time, the Romans had the largest and most technically advanced army in history...much like the US today. I would also like to point out that we are currently fighting wars on multiple fronts around the world. Plus, we are fighting a worldwide guerilla war with "invisible" terrists.
I don't think it was lack of military might or over-reaching of the empire that eventually brought the Romans down. It was hubris that they would never collapse that eventually led to their collapse.

And they had bacon, too. We are DOOMED.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

If Egypt holds free and fair elections and votes in radical Islamists then who are we to say that their Democracy is a bad thing? The US has a long history of spouting a love of freedom while supporting tyrannical dictators (like the one in Egypt). Now dont get me wrong, I think a radical Islamic nation in control of the Suez Canal and on the border with Israel is a bad thing, but how can you/we (you being someone reading this, we meaing the US as a country in general) support fighting two wars in which we are trying to "bring" Democracy's to other countries and then turn your nose up at what results in Egypt?

I have doubts that the bolded will occur.

 

[DVINNY]

Interesting times we live in that a bunch of engineering professionals seriously contemplate the kinds of moves being discussed here.
May it never be.

just to quote myself from earlier...

and YES, it can happen here, we probably aren't as far from it as some think. Just 150 years ago, we were shooting each other in this country. Don't be foolish enough to think we've "evolved" that much in the last 150 years.

 

[benbo]

If Egypt holds free and fair elections and votes in radical Islamists then who are we to say that their Democracy is a bad thing? The US has a long history of spouting a love of freedom while supporting tyrannical dictators (like the one in Egypt). Now dont get me wrong, I think a radical Islamic nation in control of the Suez Canal and on the border with Israel is a bad thing, but how can you/we (you being someone reading this, we meaing the US as a country in general) support fighting two wars in which we are trying to "bring" Democracy's to other countries and then turn your nose up at what results in Egypt?

The US is a sovereign nation and like all sovereign nations supports governments which are in its interests more than anything else.

There are democracies and then there are democracies. What we would like to see is a Jeffersonian democracy - free and fair elections along with constitutional type controls on the government and basic human rights. We never had a pure democracy in this country, I can't see why we would claim it is the best government everywhere else. Most of our politicians seem to believe this would end up being in our interest in the long run. I have no idea whether it would be or not. And I doubt we have much control over that anyway. Frankly, I personally think the Egyptian military will be in control as long as they feel like it, no matter what kind of figurehead civil government they allow.

This is the problem we ran into in the Palestinian territories. We said we wanted democracy but we didn't count on them voting in Hamas. I'm not sure why, I would have thought we could have seen that coming a mile away.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

This is the problem we ran into in the Palestinian territories. We said we wanted democracy but we didn't count on them voting in Hamas. I'm not sure why, I would have thought we could have seen that coming a mile away.

The intelligence community is the same as any other; many opinions, but only one gets pushed up the ladder. In that case, the wrong opinions were promoted. I'm with you, though, i really can't see how such a poor decsion was made.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

We want Democracy in the Middle East only if we like and/or can control the leaders they elect. If they don't, then we just secretly fund a rebellion and start over. It works out really well. See the great success of Iran and Cuba.