Comity Question

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If I tried I'm sure I'll have issues. In MI there is a rule that states":

"Acceptable experience, as defined in sub rule (1) of this rule, shall be performed by the applicant under the direction of a licensed professional engineer or a person of equivalent professional standing."

I asked what that was and the response from the state was:

"A person of “equivalent professional standing” would apply only if you qualify for the “Industrial/Manufacturing” exemption; If you work for a company which produces a product where the company is 100% responsible for the quality of the product they produce, like an automobile manufacturer or one of the parts suppliers to an auto manufacturer, then Michigan’s statute exempts the designers of said product from the requirement of being a “licensed professional engineer”. "

Apparently since I work in a company that guarantees its parts (automotive engine part supplier)  the equivalent professional can be a boss, supervisor, or a PHD holder since I have no PEs in my company so I didn't work under a PE. I don't know of any other states that allow that. So I will probably only ever be licensed in MI as it was more of just a personal goal I had to just finish the process since I started it incase I would ever need it in the future.
Washington allows it also for some experience, but you do need to have worked with a PE at one point or another in WA.  But basically, since it's only a requirement for enabling you to sit for the exam, once you pass, comity should be no problem except in maybe a handful of states.

 
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Don't mistake the meaning of my posts.  I think that a Masters and/or PhD are just as valuable or more so than a PE.  My only, and I repeat, only point is that there is no functional equivalence.  PE is one thing.  PhD is another.  Neither prepares a person fully for the other.
The original topic seems to have taken off into a whole different direction, but it's interesting reading the different perspectives. I do agree that graduate degrees are not equivalent to professional engineering licensing and vice-versa. But as far as value, I think it really depends on discipline and industry you work in. I think for individuals working in a civil engineering fields (except academia), I believe without question a PE license is more valuable than either a Masters or PhD. Naturally, possession of a PE and graduate degree is more advantageous, but if we're talking about one or the other than the PE has to be considered more valuable. This may be different for industrial, electrical, mechanical, etc.? 

I think my original point may have gotten loss or was misconstrued, but my original point is that additional education beyond a BS in your respective engineering field should/would enhance your basic knowledge and fundamentals in engineering. And certainly completion of a graduate program, especially PhD program, should provide some level of comparison or equivalency for a state board to waive the FE exam requirement only, NOT PE exam. I'm also an advocate in promoting post baccalaureate education and I believe the more education obtained definitely helps and doesn't hurt engineers sitting for the PE exam as long as you have the necessary professional work experience.

 
Related in a way, NCEES is pushing to have mandatory Masters degrees for Structural Engineers. www.structuremag.org/?p=9240

So that you don't have to read the whole article, the basis is "the curriculum for a bachelor's degree in civil engineering does not prepare the civil engineering graduate to practice structural engineering; more education is needed."

I'm divided on this issue since I do not have a Masters, but I do recognize my education did not do a great job as preparation. I was too busy taking thermo and fluid and didn't have enough to time (credit hours) to focus on timber, concrete, steel, masonry, wind, siesmic ect without delaying my graduation. Originally I thought the 4 years of qualified experience and the PE exam would be a sufficient learning tool. But as I study for the SE I am more aware of the for graduate programs in my discipline. If a civil engineer sucks, a parking lot is flooded. If a structural engineer sucks, buildings/bridges fail and people die.

 
I have a comity question. If you get licensed in another state is it ok to let the original license you got from the state you took the test in lapse?  I took the test and am licensed in NC but plan on getting comity in AZ and only keep the AZ license because they don't have a CE requirement. If anyone is wondering, I am not a practicing engineer. My military career requires a license but I will never stamp anything. 

 
I have a comity question. If you get licensed in another state is it ok to let the original license you got from the state you took the test in lapse?  I took the test and am licensed in NC but plan on getting comity in AZ and only keep the AZ license because they don't have a CE requirement. If anyone is wondering, I am not a practicing engineer. My military career requires a license but I will never stamp anything. 
It's never a good idea to allow your original state to lapse, but I forget the reason why.  Something about getting licensed in other states maybe?

 
Ya I would recommend not letting it lapse.  Every state is different, but I know a MT PE who let theirs lapse as they weren't using it.  After a while he needed the PE again, and went to renew.  He had to present his case personally in front of the board to explain himself, why he let it lapse, etc.  It didn't matter at all that he never used the license while it was expired.  The board acted like he committed a major felony.  Not sure if all boards are like this, but I would definitely encourage you to either continue to renew it, or at least contact that states specific board and discuss this with them prior to letting it lapse.  

 
Generally speaking, and based on my own research on this same topic, think of your original state license as your "home base".  The corresponding state will have all your information on file including all your archived documentation from the entire licensing process.  License by comity may not have as much detail other than copies of things with your application.  In my opinion it would not be advisable to allow your original state license to lapse.

And don't worry, those states which do not yet have CE requirements, soon will.  It's only a matter of time before it's the same requirement across the board.

"With great PE power, comes great responsibility." :thumbs:

 
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look into if the state in question has a inactive status.  Basically putting everything on hold but not lapsing.

 
I concur with what the other posters said, it's probably not a good idea to let your license lapse if you plan to apply for licensing in another state. You can still get licensed, but you typically have to jump through more hoops. I believe that in some states they may even require you to show evidence of a certain amount of continuing education before they issue you a license if you're not currently licensed in another state.

 
It is my understanding that letting your home state lapse is a no-no.  No more comity possible, if that happens.

 
Thank you for replying to my question. So can I just apply for an actual license in AZ and then let the NC one lapse?  It doesn't actually matter what state I physically took the test in right?  

And I understand what people are saying about CE's and I agree. If I was a practicing engineer I would have no problem doing them. But in my career they are an annoyance and not needed so if I don't have to I don't want to deal with it. And if I retire and end up working in the engineering field I won't be doing engineering, just managing. 

 
to make AZ your main license i think you would have to take the test again in AZ for that scenario, or else the NCEES record and comity have no purpose. if you could just take the test where ever and then apply for a license in whatever state you wanted.  best ask the AZ board

 
to make AZ your main license i think you would have to take the test again in AZ for that scenario, or else the NCEES record and comity have no purpose. if you could just take the test where ever and then apply for a license in whatever state you wanted.  best ask the AZ board
Are you sure about that?? I didn't think any state required a retake of either Exam I or II. I thought the only examination that might be required to be retaken were state specific exams.

 
Are you sure about that?? I didn't think any state required a retake of either Exam I or II. I thought the only examination that might be required to be retaken were state specific exams.
if you want comity license then thats true, but if you want to change your original license to another state from your first that is different scenario

 
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Thank you for replying to my question. So can I just apply for an actual license in AZ and then let the NC one lapse?
Nope.  That's not what most of the responses said at all.  The consensus was to not let your "home" state license lapse.  The best course of action to know for sure would be to probably contact both state boards in question.  Or as @snickerd3 suggested, look into what options are available for "inactive" status for your home state license.

And I understand what people are saying about CE's and I agree. If I was a practicing engineer I would have no problem doing them. But in my career they are an annoyance and not needed so if I don't have to I don't want to deal with it.
Umm, so why go through all the trouble of getting your PE license then?  I realize it is required for your career, but it's exactly that, a license.  Licenses are different than say an educational qualification (e.g. undergraduate degree, etc.) where they need to be maintained on an annual or bi-annual basis.  CE's aren't just for practicing licensed engineers either.  It's to drive engineers to remain engaged in their respective professional fields so as to stay somewhat current with new and developing technologies.  And also new developments for licensed engineers in general.  

Are you sure about that?? I didn't think any state required a retake of either Exam I or II. I thought the only examination that might be required to be retaken were state specific exams.
No one is 100% certain of this except the state board(s).  Best to verify the necessary requirements with them.

 
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if you want comity license then thats true, but if you want to change your original license to another state from your first that is different scenario
I don't think it makes a big difference on whether you maintain an active license in the original state you were licensed in or not, I think what's more important is that you maintain an active license in a state or US territory to avoid the additional requirements. Once you become licensed in a state through comity, there isn't a distinction or benefit for applicants applying for comity in another state, it just cuts down on the cost and amount of records you have to forward to the state you're applying. But with the NCEES Records program, it makes the process a lot smoother.

 
to make AZ your main license i think you would have to take the test again in AZ for that scenario, or else the NCEES record and comity have no purpose. if you could just take the test where ever and then apply for a license in whatever state you wanted.  best ask the AZ board
I don't think that's true.  Speaking for myself, I've taken the SE exams in Montana which don't recognize the SE license.  Yet I can apply for an SE license by comity.  I don't think that's any different.  

While people think of comity as reciprocity in which you probably would have to show licensure, its not really.  It's basically a means to gain licensure, without having to re-take a national exam in each state.  

I still don't think you'd want to let your original state license lapse, but I think even if it did, you "likely" could still apply for comity elsewhere.  Because you'd just have to meet the 1) exam requirements (check), 2) education and experience requires (I assume check), and then any other state specific requirements.

Another option to letting your license lapse is that some states allow you to retire your license.  Basically for a fee ($25 or 50 usually) they let you keep your license, but not actively use it.  And then if you ever want to "un-retire" your license you pay the $25-$50 activation fee again and fulfill your continuing ed requirement and they reactivate it.  I think if your specific state has that as an option I'd pursue that route.   

 
Nope.  That's not what most of the responses said at all.  The consensus was to not let your "home" state license lapse.  The best course of action to know for sure would be to probably contact both state boards in question.  Or as @snickerd3 suggested, look into what options are available for "inactive" status for your home state license.

Umm, so why go through all the trouble of getting your PE license then?  I realize it is required for your career, but it's exactly that, a license.  Licenses are different than say an educational qualification (e.g. undergraduate degree, etc.) where they need to be maintained on an annual or bi-annual basis.  CE's aren't just for practicing licensed engineers either.  It's to drive engineers to remain engaged in their respective professional fields so as to stay somewhat current with new and developing technologies.  And also new developments for licensed engineers in general.  

No one is 100% certain of this except the state board(s).  Best to verify the necessary requirements with them.
It's the military, we do some strange things. What I was fed is we need a license to be on par with our peers in industry (civil engineering specifically). I am not a civil engineer, and will not be doing any engineering (other than the contingency type) and will certainly not be stamping anything. If I don't get my PE I don't make the next rank, period. It's not all bad as it helps weed some people out. I'm also a little cynical of the process anyways (sorry) because even if I wasn't in the military I would be working in aerospace where it's not a requirement. Anywhoo, I'll call the respective boards and see what they say. Though comity and going inactive on my NC license doesn't sound too difficult. 

 
While people think of comity as reciprocity in which you probably would have to show licensure, its not really.  It's basically a means to gain licensure, without having to re-take a national exam in each state.

I still don't think you'd want to let your original state license lapse, but I think even if it did, you "likely" could still apply for comity elsewhere.  Because you'd just have to meet the 1) exam requirements (check), 2) education and experience requires (I assume check), and then any other state specific requirements. 
Yeah, for the majority of the states, application for licensing via comity isn't any less cumbersome than someone applying for their initial license, because most still require you to forward your exam scores, submit your college transcripts, professional experience and professional references...so why even call it comity. :(  I think there may be a couple of states that have comity/reciprocity agreements with other states, but for the vast majority the closest thing to comity they have is the NCEES Records program.

 
 CE's aren't just for practicing licensed engineers either.  It's to drive engineers to remain engaged in their respective professional fields so as to stay somewhat current with new and developing technologies.  And also new developments for licensed engineers in general. 
Very true, which is why I find it odd that in my state CE isn't required.

 

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