At least 20 people killed in shooting at Texas church

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this is pretty unreal.  Small town of less than 400 people.

 
Happened to catch a clip on Fox News while purchasing doughnuts this morning and they were going on about how the real issue is how churches are set up to be soft targets. You know, people enter through one spot in the back and they are all seated facing an open front area and WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT MAKING CHURCHES ACTIVE SHOOTER PROTECTIVE INSTEAD OF STOP SHOOTING PEOPLE. 

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

532 people killed in mass shootings in 2017. 1,625 people injured in mass shootings in 2017. 

 
my question is, why is is the media not talking about how the neighbor who heard what was going on and interrupted the scene by opening fire on this wacko? That guy is the real hero. More would have died.

 
Our church took some steps to increase security a few years ago.  All but two doors are locked during service, we have about 10 cameras around the property and several men have beepers that tell them which door to go to should something funny go on outside during service.  Not to mention, including me and my wife, I suspect 15-20% of adults in the building are armed.  Short of posting a guard outside, I think we are as ready as we can be.  I do hate that we have to prepare for this, but desperate times...  As far as why are churches arming themselves instead of stopping bad guys from doing bad things, we can do something about one of them.  The other takes a change of heart for the entire population.

 
I would much rather meet Jesus than lock the doors to prevent people from finding Jesus. 
Also have to remember that the historically number one source of conflict is over which form of Jesus you're supposed to find...

 
my question is, why is is the media not talking about how the neighbor who heard what was going on and interrupted the scene by opening fire on this wacko? That guy is the real hero. More would have died.
I am hearing about it a lot. It's all over the news. 

 
On the flip side, it's that "he's a hero for shooting back" mentality that builds upon the confirmation bias for the pro-2nd amendment crew. He's the hero for being armed. But the bad guy is not the bad guy for being armed, he's simply a bad guy who would have been a bad guy with any number of things.

It's a way to glorify and justify the constant need to identify with guns. This is what is built into the American psyche and what needs to change if there is to be any progress in how guns are productively used in the US.

 
Also have to remember that the historically number one source of conflict is over which form of Jesus you're supposed to find...
In this case the shooter was one of those in-your-face Facebook atheists:

"He was also posting a lot of non-God beliefs, atheism, a lot of gun violence and a lot of weapons that he was into," Longoria told CNN's Don Lemon

 
For this particular case this guy should have never been able to purchase a firearm (thanks chAir Force).. But if its one thing we have seen, crazy people going to do what crazy people going to do (home depot truck?)  The las vegas shooter also owned two airplanes, but I don't believe he intended to get caught so maybe he wasn't brave enough to load his planes with extra fuel and crash kamikaze style into the concert.

most people that own guns do use them productively.

I'd be willing to place a small tax on ammo to fund additional ATF agents who show up and help ensure that former convicted felons don't have any guns in their possession?  And also it would be nice if we started enforcing the existing laws on the books in the process...

 
On the flip side, it's that "he's a hero for shooting back" mentality that builds upon the confirmation bias for the pro-2nd amendment crew. He's the hero for being armed. But the bad guy is not the bad guy for being armed, he's simply a bad guy who would have been a bad guy with any number of things.
Yes he is a hero for shooting back. And the bad guy.... He's a piece of garbage. And let's face it, these guys mental or not, are evil at the core. And they don't respect the laws. That is obvious enough. I truly believe that had more of these incidents occurred where someone armed was nearby to act in defense, 1) there would far less casualties; and 2) these incidents might be far and few between.
 
Just a few thoughts:

1) 2nd Amendment needs to go. Owning a gun is not and should not be a natural born right. I'm not saying guns need to be banned, but the starting point in any gun debate should not be "I have the right to one, prove why I shouldn't". The gun control discussion should be, "prove to society that you are a physically and mentally capable person, then you can have one". Self defense is not a legitimate reason. Australia has actually criminalized self defense with a gun. They also have a gun mortality rate one third of the US.

2) There are entirely too many guns in the US. Under current estimates, there are literally one gun for every man/woman/child in the US. Next closest one: Serbia with 1 gun per 2 people (just over half the rate). Most European countries are around 30 guns per 100 people. With this many guns available, it should be of absolutely no surprise that anyone can get one if they want one. The US has doubled the amount of guns per capita over the last 40 years and the only thing that has proven is that more guns do not solve the problem. When tools are available, said tools are used. 

3) Mental health in the US is abysmal. Yes, the US has some of the best medicine available in the world. But there is a difference between being available and genuinely accessible. Lamborghini's are available, but only select few have access to them. Why is healthcare the same way? People have to make the daily decision between food and buying their meds. Bankruptcy should not be a consequence of getting sick. You want to know what socialized medicine provides? It provides help those who need help. I don't care if you're healthy and don't need it, your current health is just one mental break away from being a victim from someone who can't afford their meds. Healthcare should not be a capitalist commodity to be profited from on the stock market.

The United States has 10 gun-related deaths per year per 100k people (6.3 of that is suicide). This is worse than South Africa, Philippines, Mexico, Serbia, and Israel. Compared to other developed countries (mostlly European), Americans are 10x more likely to die by a gun.

"How are we to protect ourselves from an oppressive government?" Oh, you mean the government that spends almost $600b PER YEAR on a military force? Good luck with that.

"But I am safe with my firearms." Good for you. 

Yes he is a hero for shooting back. And the bad guy.... He's a piece of garbage. And let's face it, these guys mental or not, are evil at the core. And they don't respect the laws. That is obvious enough. I truly believe that had more of these incidents occurred where someone armed was nearby to act in defense, 1) there would far less casualties; and 2) these incidents might be far and few between.
Exactly proving my point. With a gun, he's a hero. No one else is identified as a hero. If a police officer arrives on site to see two people shooting each other, who's the bad guy? Most people who conceal carry won't even un-holster their weapon because 1) they don't want to become the target of the bad guy and 2) they don't want to be labeled as the bad guy when the police show up.

The bad guy is a bad guy, it's nothing to do with poor mental health treatment options, nothing to do with access to the largest array of weapons in the world, and definitely not society's fault for fostering the whole situation. Right?

At the end of the day, what the US is doing is not working. De-regulating guns (per the NRA goal), is not working. Everyone having the right to own one is not working. When is the US going to start looking outside it's own borders to see what other countries are doing? Why is suggesting what other countries are doing being met with such resistance? I'm not saying the rest of the world has it perfected, but it's significantly safer out here...

 
What a bunch of BS that is...

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So the US isn't as bad as Central/South America? How about comparing gun ownership vs deaths against more developed nations?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

"At least it's not" is probably the biggest straw man there is. At least it's not heart disease (number one cause of death), so by comparison guns are safe? You're more likely to die by a vending machine falling on you than getting bitten by a shark, does that make sharks safe? Should we all have the right to own sharks now?

 
so more legislation, bigger government, those are the answers? That will resolve this issue? Ask the citizens of Chicago how that is working out. because the bad guys obviously pay attention to the laws.

 
If you had a shark with a big enough laser beam to take out LA and Chicago crime
Numbers would drop to below Switzerland numbers in the US... addition by subtraction...

 

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