--~~ Ask A Female Engineer Anything ~~--

[RIP - VTEnviro]

I hear VTE works cheap!

Be sure to ask for the Business Man's special to get the super discounted rate.

:bananapowerslide:

 

[Guest]

See, that's the thing. I'm damned if I do, damned if i don't. She's mad because i didn't tell my older BIL two days earlier that I wasn't going in on the limo (like it would have made a difference). I said i'd pay the $60, she's pissed that we're paying it at all but it's her brother that's at fault.

Well, can I tell you what I hear ... if I may?

I hear you saying .. there are some on-going lingering issues bubbling beneath the surface that are reaching escalation over 'small' change. Bad place to be .. I have been there and forced to eject based on the continued escalation of hostility and decline in healthy relationship.

And being able to recognize those type of situations is what makes, in my opinion, a marriage work. You've got to pick your battles.

Very true.

Chuck, I might be way off, but from a couple of things you've said I'd guess you're not a huge fan of her family. There is nothing wrong with that, I not a big fan of my inlaws either. But when in-law BS happens, in my opinion it really comes down to one thing. She's either worth putting up with her family for, or she's not. Because you're going to be stuck having to deal with them at times, whether you like it or not. Its going to be a rare occurance for you to win a you vs. her family argument, and its going to be even more rare for that win to be worth it.

This is probably one of the areas where couples have a hard time reaching common ground because you cannot 'control' or 'influence' family - not in the way you would want them to act. It's a matter of accepting or not accepting ... and that is very, very complicated.

I got spun into an increasingly sick and vile web with ex-Mrs. JR's family. They were absolute leeches on our relationship and for all practical purposes they just didn't care because she let them to that to our relationship. Have you considered talking to your wife about specific things that your in-laws do that damage your relationship ... or in the case of her parents, unduly influence your children in a way that you do not approve?

And .. you cannot say .. they suck ... or they are bad ... you have to present your position in a rational way and why it hurts or offends. I realize it is more complicated than it sounds - I ended my marriage because it reached a point of impossibility. Talking about it may continue hostilities .. but at some point you have to resolve differences and reach a point of common ground.

The real problem is that I lost my temper on Friday about her parents buying too much stuff for our kids. She's been pissed off at me ever since. In retrospect, the $60 is a side issue but one of the many that's being heaped on the pile.

Having one issue compound another is not a good place to be - I would wait to redress your concerns until a time where things aren't as sensitive.

I just avoid her family, she avoids mine, its made a huge difference, probably not the best but it works..

I tried that one with ex-Mrs. JR ... I avoided the inevitable for about five years and compounded the cost from exiting the relationship.

That's not to say avoidance doesn't work ... just realize there may be a larger price later down the road for avoiding.

Maybe that's the bitter guy in me that was taken advantage of on numerous occasions for years, but I wouldn't pay it. Be damned if I paid it in fact.

From a non-bitter guy who has also been in the taken-advantage position, I actually agree - I started to put my foot down on principle issues (in my case prohibiting people from using/selling drugs from my home) and that brought things to a rapid end. I think if there are princples that are important, you *DO* have to stand up and say no.

I don't think you can survive any long-term relationship without developing the ability to apologize for things you KNOW are not your responsibility. Whether it's marriage or even work.

I agree with being able to have the ability to do that ... but I do not advocate doing it for the sake of reaching peace. Too many unresolved issues leads to a bigger explosion down the road. And, as I found out, you *DO* reach a point of not being able to fix your relationship. Some things do become irretrievably broken ... and a delicate tight rope walk to maintain that bond ensues. Again - apologies are good, but not if you saying it to avoid the argument or reaching a common ground.

The older I get, and the fewer and fewer "successful" people I meet (successful in work, marriage, etc.), the more I believe in "amiable indifference" as a way of being..... It really doesn't hurt you to just let it go.... and those who can't.... don't last.

Completely agree - you do have to be able to say, as a couple, we agree to disagree but I have enough respect for you not to cross your line. Tough one ... and it doesn't always work out as history has taught me.

I guess I'm taking it to the extreme.

It's not extreme - that's REAL!!!

All I know is that years and years of always being the "wrong" one and having to apologize for the sake of ending an argument has lead me to be indifferent to her fits. She's mad now, and it really doesn't bother me. And that's sad.
I understand what most of your are saying, and I do try to live that way. I'd rather be happy and wrong than unhappy and right. But, I just know what years of always being the wrong one leads to.

It's a valid point ... and important because if one choose to 'give-in' for whatever reason, you have to find your own inner-peace with making that choice. The problem is that nobody wants to be continually on the receiving end of the apologizing line ... that's why I say ... you must be cognizant of your actions - why are you apologizing? Are you okay with apologizing? Is there something that still needs to be discussed or addressed?

There are no single right answers to any given problem .. but there are always many wrong answers. I just say ... think and act with purpose.

JR

 

[TouchDown]

WWABD?

 

[Katiebug]

This is probably one of the areas where couples have a hard time reaching common ground because you cannot 'control' or 'influence' family - not in the way you would want them to act. It's a matter of accepting or not accepting ... and that is very, very complicated.
I got spun into an increasingly sick and vile web with ex-Mrs. JR's family. They were absolute leeches on our relationship and for all practical purposes they just didn't care because she let them to that to our relationship. Have you considered talking to your wife about specific things that your in-laws do that damage your relationship ... or in the case of her parents, unduly influence your children in a way that you do not approve?

Family issues are so tough to deal with. We live within a 30 minute drive from my parents, my father in law, and my sister in law and her family. It is wonderful for us to have our families so close, and sometimes it sucks.

I grew up with a very distinct nuclear family and having virtually no relationship with grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Extended family were people we spoke to once a year at Christmas and who we got a birthday card from. Part of this was due to the fact that both of my parents' families of origin were/are somewhat disfunctional and they chose to move halfway across the country and limit contact. Anyways, Mr. Bug grew up with a rich and involved and local extended family. He's used to spending holidays with family, celebrating birthdays together, having random barbecues and parties for the heck of it, etc.

We fought for years over what to do for Christmas and Thanksgiving. His family (FIL, SIL, etc.) expect that we will spend part of the holiday with them regardless of the fact that my parents are local as well, and that we might wish to enjoy the holiday at OUR home rather than traipsing all over the state. When we first started declining SIL's Thanksgiving invitation, she pulled out all the stops - even invoking my deceased MIL - in order to guilt-trip us into coming. Despite our resolution to enjoy Christmas day at home as a family, every.single.year he caves and we wind up spending half the day at SIL's house (of course to make it convenient since they have children and we don't). To my in-laws, our wishes don't matter because we don't have kids and thus should have no objection to a frazzled, rushed holiday.

My FIL clearly plays favorites. First it was that SIL was the perfect child who could do no wrong, while Mr. Bug was the little black sheep of the family (because he took so long to finish college and *gasp* worked retail for several years). Then when SIL and BIL had our nephew, we became persona non grata due to the fact that he's grandbaby-crazy and we have not provided him with a grandchild to dote on (yet another example of how his son is a "disappointment"). The niece's arrival has only served to further his complete lack of involvement in our lives. We don't matter except on birthdays and holidays, at least not until we have children. For Christmas last year, we got a $100 Chili's gift card, and SIL/BIL got a $500 digital camcorder. Shit like that. I have zero expectation that things will change radically once we start a family - SIL beat us to it, and that's that.

We've had issues with my parents, too. When they started to see how my FIL treats Mr. Bug and me, they decided to step in and fill the gap. My mom has a naturally overbearing personality to begin with and has always been disappointed that she and I are not "best friend" mom-and-daughter. She comes to our home and criticizes our decorating choices. We're buying me a new car now, and she's tried to have me bring HER on test drives rather than my husband (that got shot down quickly). With my brother deployed overseas, she has more time to focus on us. Establishing boundaries is difficult for me and for many women, because we're people pleasers. Especially an oldest daughter. When my mom cried over us not coming over for a last-minute dinner invite, I knew it was manipulation, no different from what SIL does - yet I still felt guilty.

Anyways, if there's one thing I've learned it's that for family to not unduly influence a marriage, you must establish boundaries and make the marriage/family the priority over parents, siblings, etc. It took a long time to communicate this to my parents and brother, but if it comes down to him versus them, he's going to win. I am not going to put my family of origin above my marriage and (future) children. We're working on this with my in-laws right now, too. And when necessary, I am the one who stands up to my family, and he has to be the one to stand up to his family.

 

[Ble_PE]

Anyways, if there's one thing I've learned it's that for family to not unduly influence a marriage, you must establish boundaries and make the marriage/family the priority over parents, siblings, etc. It took a long time to communicate this to my parents and brother, but if it comes down to him versus them, he's going to win. I am not going to put my family of origin above my marriage and (future) children. We're working on this with my in-laws right now, too. And when necessary, I am the one who stands up to my family, and he has to be the one to stand up to his family.

This is exactly how my wife and I feel. We are lucky in that we both get along with our in-laws, but we do know that each family has their quirks and that we always come before them. There have been times that we have turned down invitations from both in-laws because we simply didn't want to do it. The best thing is that our families get along, so we have get togethers a lot with all the in-laws quite often, so that's nice.

 

[Supe]

After reading this page of the thread, I must say, I do not envy most of you. In a similar light, I'd like to thank you all once again for reminding me why I have chosen a life without marriage or meaningful relationship.

 

[Chucktown PE]

Perhaps I have given the wrong impression here. I love my wife very much and I couldn't imagine anything that would ever cause a divorce (except for maybe if she cheated on me and I am 100% sure she would never do that). I was just venting a little bit and this seemed like the place to do it.

The bottom line is that I lost my temper and said things that I shouldn't have said. Regardless of the fact that I have a reason to be pissed off over her parents constantly buying shit for our kids, if I had not lost my temper we probably could have had a reasonable conversation and this would all be over.

I have had some underlying anger over this issue for a couple of months now because back in early June I went out and bought Mrs. Chuck a new dress. I knew she had been looking for a dress and I was walking through the shopping district on the way to lunch one day and saw a nice dress in a store window and bought it. That was one of those things that I was trying to do more often. The dress didn't fit so I took it back but Mrs. Chuck was very appreciative and of course told everyone (including her mother) what I did. So now you can guess what my MIL does next. Goes out and buys my wife a new dress to one up me. Of course this one fit and noww my MIL is the hero. So I was pissed for two reasons, 1) I don't think her parents need to be buying us clothes seeing as how we are adults, 2) this was a deliberate attempt by my MIL to one up me. So long story short, I calmly told Mrs. Chuck that was the last time I would do something like that again.........EVER.

So then I found out on Friday that there were plans for Mrs. Chuck and her mom to go shopping for our kids for clothes this weekend while I was at my BIL's bachelor party, which is why I lost my temper.

So Mrs. Chuck was pissed off at me for the things I said (and she had every right to be) and the $60 thing was just something else she could be irritated about.

Things seem to be calming down a little but we have not had a conversation about the underlying issues.

 

[OSUguy98]

Speaking of family and relatives/etc... Try living < 1/2 mi from your parents... and ~8 mi from the in-laws... farthest immediate family is about a 30 min drive...

Family issues have been a staple of frustration and arguments between my wife and I. Esp. since my dad passed away. My dad did everything for my mom, so now, she doesn't know how to start the lawn mower, or replace the light bulbs in ceiling fan(enclosed).... So the rash of phone calls at very inconvenient times, late at night,etc has frustrated my wife to no end... Now, when the phone rings and its my mom, her mood will change from great/happy/stress free to pissed/angry/short/etc.... She will fully admit that there is a double standard with my mom and her parents... She's actually volunteered me to replace a toilet at their house before even mentioning it to me...

Holidays are another issue... I came from a fairly close family... she didn't... I forgot most of the time that she had an older brother (6 or 8 years older than her, he never lived at the house when I was around).... On the opposite side, my brother is my best friend.... we did everything together growing up (he's 7 years older, and we have similar interests/etc).... Once I got married, I get to see my brother once a month if I'm lucky... I've taken a day off from work before just to have a "guy day" where we can sit around and play video games, etc... and my wife gives me the "You never take a day off to stay home with me".... I do, frequently, but we always end up working on the house.... When we try to plan for holidays, it's chaotic at best.... ALL of our families live in a 40 mile radius.... so her family will have something at noon.... and at dinner.... some people can make it to one, some can make it to the other..... my family is the same way.... I always try to aim to go whenever my brother is going to be there... she always aims to go whenever her great-nephew will be there.... and, it's always the same time.... without fail.... so we try to do both.... we go to her family stuff, stay for a few hours.... head to my family stuff, stay for a few hours.... but somehow the extra 30 minutes that we spent with my family (travel time must count, apparently) ends up causing hard feelings....

Holidays aside, if I try to plan something with my immediate family (Mom, brother, SIL, niece), I get the "I only get to see my brothers maybe 4 times a year, I don't understand why we have to do something with them all the time".... Is the fact that her brothers can't pick up the phone and talk to her or each other or her parents really my fault??? why should my family interactions resemble her's if she complains about it so much??

 

[CivE Bricky]

I have had some underlying anger over this issue for a couple of months now because back in early June I went out and bought Mrs. Chuck a new dress. I knew she had been looking for a dress and I was walking through the shopping district on the way to lunch one day and saw a nice dress in a store window and bought it. That was one of those things that I was trying to do more often. The dress didn't fit so I took it back but Mrs. Chuck was very appreciative and of course told everyone (including her mother) what I did. So now you can guess what my MIL does next. Goes out and buys my wife a new dress to one up me. Of course this one fit and noww my MIL is the hero. So I was pissed for two reasons, 1) I don't think her parents need to be buying us clothes seeing as how we are adults, 2) this was a deliberate attempt by my MIL to one up me. So long story short, I calmly told Mrs. Chuck that was the last time I would do something like that again.........EVER.

Once the dust settles, the two of you need to deal with this issue:

You bought a dress, Mrs. Chuck loved it, and (I think) due to no action of Mrs. Chuck you got angry at Mrs. Chuck and said you'd never buy her a dress again even though she loved it.

(I'd be infuriated if I were Mrs. Chuck.)

You both have an issue to address with MIL, and together, you need to come up with a plan to deal with it. Clearly, MIL is a scheming manipulator competing with you for Mrs. Chuck's attention and devotion. That only works if Mrs. Chuck lets her do it. You and Mrs. Chuck together have to choose something that's workable for both of you that takes away MIL's ability to push your button.

Maybe (if you both agree):

restricting MIL gifts to holidays only. Gifts given in disregard of the rule are donated to charity. (Where's that bunny I just got Freddy? And the living room curtains? "Well as you know, we're teaching the children to share extras with the less fortunate and we need to lead by example." Just like training a kid, you must be ruthlessly swift and consistent with no exceptions.....of course, if Mrs. Chuck likes all the stuff and wants it, then you need some other agreement. And yes, there will be either be an epic battle with MIL or a deep chill, but if you both stand firm, eventually all will be better for everyone.

OR

restricting gifts to items the whole family can enjoy together.

My brother and SIL had lots of toy gifts coming their way -- they included tax deductable stuff donation in their family budget and would scrounge up $500 or so of toys and clothes every half year to donate. If they hadn't, their home would have become a giant storage unit. That approach was easier for them than stopping the buying.

The key is you and Mrs. Chuck need a plan you can both live with. And Mrs. Chuck is the communicator with MIL, not you. And she can't just say, "Chuck wants you to....," she needs to say, "Chuck and I have decided that your generosity is overwhelming us and WE...."

**************

My FIL favorite was when he broke down and cried with Mr. Brick about what a tragedy it was that he'd ruined his life by marrying a poor housekeeper who refused to be his helpmate and support him in his career. (This was when we had a new baby, I was finishing college and working full-time.....lazy wife!) Mr. Brick and I talked about it and decided how to deal with it (ignore it). Now 13 or so years later, I still hold FIL at arm's length -- his loss. We didn't shut and lock the door, but we live a half country away and visited only every 2 years, until very recently. (Need to check on MIL -- who is divorced from FIL, but in the same town.)

 

[Chucktown PE]

Once the dust settles, the two of you need to deal with this issue:
You bought a dress, Mrs. Chuck loved it, and (I think) due to no action of Mrs. Chuck you got angry at Mrs. Chuck and said you'd never buy her a dress again even though she loved it.

(I'd be infuriated if I were Mrs. Chuck.)

Ahh, but what I didn't mention is that Mrs. Chuck picked out the dress and let her mom pay for it. They were in the store together. So Mrs. Chuck can get infuriated if she wants but I'm not buying her anything like that again.

 

[csb]

If my husband treated me like a child, I'd be mad at him as well. There's a male in my house that's prone to hyperbole, but I'm not married to him. It's my three-year-old.

 

[Chucktown PE]

If my husband treated me like a child, I'd be mad at him as well. There's a male in my house that's prone to hyperbole, but I'm not married to him. It's my three-year-old.

I don't see how that is treating her like a child. If she wants her mom to buy her clothes then great. I'm not going to waste my f-ing time trying to compete with my MIL. And it isn't hyperbole because it isn't an exaggeration.

 

[jmbeck]

If my husband treated me like a child, I'd be mad at him as well. There's a male in my house that's prone to hyperbole, but I'm not married to him. It's my three-year-old.

Frankly, I'm surprised it made it to page 6 before the bashing began.

 

[EM_PS]

If my husband treated me like a child, I'd be mad at him as well. There's a male in my house that's prone to hyperbole, but I'm not married to him. It's my three-year-old.

ummm, the pot calls the kettle 'black'?

Female Engineer Opinion- The woman is always right. Do not question the woman.

When she told you to quit your bitching about the $60, you should have quit your bitching.

 

[csb]

Obviously the Female Engineer thing was a joke...it is a thread about female engineers, right? And the quit your bitching is totally about picking your battles. If every little argument needs to be won, a relationship won't hold up.

In my opinion, if my husband bought me something and it didn't fit and I was appreciative, he'd be happy that he tried. If I then went shopping with my mom and it caused him to tell me he was never buying me anything ever again, I'd be insulted, because that is something I'd expect of a parent to a child, but not spouse to spouse. Interpret it as bashing, but when his wife has been mad for days I'd still say it was a deeper issue and I'm guessing that issue is the lack of respect between them.

So, call me a hypocrite, call it bashing, but I'm standing by my opinion. I'm happily married.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

 

[maryannette]

I just want to say that some of what I've been reading is normal marriage/relationship. Some of it is childish. Some of it is bitter. All of it is part of life. The trick is to learn from difficult times and challenges and make adjustments from what you learn. You have to keep a very good line of honest communication with the people you want to continue relationships with. It is an investment in the future. And, it is still give and take.

My husband and I have been married almost 30 years. We've been through most of the problems described in this thread. In the whole picture, those things don't matter. If that is what you want to base a relationship on, there are a lot of things missing.

 

[EM_PS]

So, call me a hypocrite, call it bashing, but I'm standing by my opinion. I'm happily married.

I know, it just seemed there was a pattern developing there where the claws were coming out for Chucktown -

Pride, men are stupid with it. . .at least i am. . .i'd like to blame my mom ( :joke: )

 

[Chucktown PE]

Say what you will. I'm just choosing to stay out of a pissing contest with my MIL over who can win my wife's affection with material objects. My MIL has a lot more money than I do so I choose not to compete. I do thank you all for your insights but I feel like I'm right on this one and I don't think I'm going to change my opinion. I would like to drop this issue now and talk about boobs.

 

[jmbeck]

I would like to drop this issue now and talk about boobs.

You forgot college football, for the total hijack.