Anyone Read the NCEES Licensure Exchange Dec 2010?

[humner]

To be fair, if they propose to supply the reference material, they are then OBLIGATED to provide the material required to answer ALL questions. It could save time in some regards.

That is exactly how I would see it. It would be better than having a 3 foot stack of 3-ring binders that will do absolutely nothing for you but waste your time.

On the other side of the argument, I can see the benefit of knowing how to use the REAL WORLD references that you will need in your profession

Seeing a couple of these guys that bring in bookcases full of references when I took the exam in October, I really began to wonder what the pass rate for those guys are. Like you said, there is such a thing as information overload and if you are constantly rummaging through a suitcase full of references, I can't believe that you've got time to actually answer the questions.

I just created an index for all my books, quick and easy to things, I even coded my book spines.

 

[squrrelco3]

Personally I think one of the reasons they are going to supplied references is because it is getting more and more difficult to simulate "the real world"...because in the "real world" where do 90% of us go to find information that we need immediately?

Google it up...

Now obviously they can't have everybody bringing in laptops to the testing sites. So they will have to come off of the "real world" standard or make the whole thing computerized online and go to a random question bank that is rotated every couple of years or something.

 

[MrAnderson41]

Personally I think one of the reasons they are going to supplied references is because it is getting more and more difficult to simulate "the real world"...because in the "real world" where do 90% of us go to find information that we need immediately?
Google it up...

Now obviously they can't have everybody bringing in laptops to the testing sites. So they will have to come off of the "real world" standard or make the whole thing computerized online and go to a random question bank that is rotated every couple of years or something.

I can't tell you how many times I've used wikipeida as a reference for safety related calculations at my job :laugh: I think the vast majority of engineers use real references like books. I do search the internet from time to time if I need a different perspective on a problem, but when it comes right down to actually solving the problem I bust out the books for references.

 

[squrrelco3]

Personally I think one of the reasons they are going to supplied references is because it is getting more and more difficult to simulate "the real world"...because in the "real world" where do 90% of us go to find information that we need immediately?
Google it up...

Now obviously they can't have everybody bringing in laptops to the testing sites. So they will have to come off of the "real world" standard or make the whole thing computerized online and go to a random question bank that is rotated every couple of years or something.

I can't tell you how many times I've used wikipeida as a reference for safety related calculations at my job :laugh: I think the vast majority of engineers use real references like books. I do search the internet from time to time if I need a different perspective on a problem, but when it comes right down to actually solving the problem I bust out the books for references.

I don't know about wiki, but I will use .pdf versions of books quite a bit in research mainly because it allws me to do a quick keyword search that sometimes a book index cannot even provide.

 

[JonBoy]

Not really...I mean, I remember studying/using the FE Reference Manual, and there was certainly information that you needed to know that was NOT in there...
It makes sense that they want to have more control over the situation by not letting you bring your own crap into the exam...would be interesting to see how the pass rates will be affected.

Interesting. It had EVERYTHING I needed to pass the exam. The FE has so many questions in so little time that they are almost all one-equation or, at most, two-equation problems. I was always able to find what I needed in the supplied reference material.

I have to agree on this, there was a LOT of information that was not included in the FE reference manual. I know that my Mrs is already fretting having to study for the FE! And she's not planning to take it until Oct '11! I've told her what I can from what I remember, but geeze, there was several topics not included at all.

All I can say is that it had everything I needed...

 

[VAPSU]

Not really...I mean, I remember studying/using the FE Reference Manual, and there was certainly information that you needed to know that was NOT in there...
It makes sense that they want to have more control over the situation by not letting you bring your own crap into the exam...would be interesting to see how the pass rates will be affected.

Interesting. It had EVERYTHING I needed to pass the exam. The FE has so many questions in so little time that they are almost all one-equation or, at most, two-equation problems. I was always able to find what I needed in the supplied reference material.

I have to agree on this, there was a LOT of information that was not included in the FE reference manual. I know that my Mrs is already fretting having to study for the FE! And she's not planning to take it until Oct '11! I've told her what I can from what I remember, but geeze, there was several topics not included at all.

All I can say is that it had everything I needed...

I can't even remember the FE...probably has something to do with the copious amount of liqour consumed afterwards

 

[billbillbillbill]

I work with someone on my state's licensing board who is on the NCEES committee and they have discussed this a bit. His comment was that there was a lot of resistance to banning all reference but instead limiting it to 15 books. He thought that would open up a can of worms and potentially hurt structural test takers more than others since their code list is substantial.

The one thing he said was that engineering is one of the past professions that is not doing computer based testing. He said that they want to move the FE to computer and allow it to be taken year round with a gap for repeat takers.

Probably a long way out before the PE goes to computer but is on the way.

 

[blybrook PE]

I work with someone on my state's licensing board who is on the NCEES committee and they have discussed this a bit. His comment was that there was a lot of resistance to banning all reference but instead limiting it to 15 books. He thought that would open up a can of worms and potentially hurt structural test takers more than others since their code list is substantial.
The one thing he said was that engineering is one of the past professions that is not doing computer based testing. He said that they want to move the FE to computer and allow it to be taken year round with a gap for repeat takers.

Probably a long way out before the PE goes to computer but is on the way.

I can see limiting the number of references, to a degree; especially for those taking the Structural portion of the Civil exam or Structural alone! There were three people that tested with me that had 4+ boxes of materials for the transportation exam; one that didn't even know where things were as she had borrowed them the week before from someone that had tested & passed in April '10. I brought 2 milk crates full of books for both tries & used most of them on the first & only about 2/3 on the second. I did find I was missing the AASHTO & Bridge Design books; but don't think it hurt me that much (will see in the next week or so). The only other person taking the Structural exam had about the same number of books as I did & he told me afterwards that he wanted quite a few more books.

Computer based testing has it's pro's and cons. As a volunteer examiner for amateur radio exams, we also do not utilize the computer based testing. We give out a hard copy test, an answer sheet & a pencil. We'll grade right then & there when the individual is done and they know before they leave. It's not as fast as the computer, but we guarantee the security of the session. I can only hope that I get a positive result before it goes into effect.

There is a lot to think about with this proposal. It should be interesting to see where things go.

As for the FE comments above, I know there were things that I knew off the top of my head that weren't in the FE manual at the time. I talked it over with a couple of guys after wards (no liquor) and they all felt that it was lacking as well. So it may just have been the particular test we took. I've heard NCEES changes the reference manual as necessary to suit the test; could be possible that they were using up old books, something I'll never know, nor care to figure out.