America is NOT the greatest country in the world anymore
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Master slacker
Something awesome.
This is acceptance of status quo. Damn right I care whether or not mini-MS 1 and 2 care about science and education.
My MIL is a 5th and 6th grade math and science teacher. She's been doing this for almost 40 years now. She has seen a difference of kids caring over the years. Vague information for you and anyone else reading this, but it's her experience. And I wouldn't count me as being in a "trap" of the media. The mass media barely cares. What sells more hype - wars or education? public welfare or education? And does the media really want to point out that the politicians they're supporting, who push and fight tooth and nail for idiotic policies in the educational system, are idiots themselves?
The farkin' health care law was written by politicians for crying out loud and passed before it was even read. Do the politicians care?
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Only about getting re-elected.
Hey, I taught a couple of years, and several family members were teachers. The education system has problem, but mostly the parents.
But, I must ask you. Look back ten years. Is the world better off now? I'd say so.
So in spite of all the problems, there are enough people striving to get ahead to drag us all forward.
Master slacker
Something awesome.
The world is a better place, yes. But I'm not looking at the world. I'm looking at this country.
I quoted this particular sentence because it exemplifies what I have been stating. This country shouldn't be the one dragged forward. This country wasn't dragged to the moon, wasn't dragged to Skunkworks, wasn't dragged to design / construct the tallest buildings in the world.
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Well, we've been to the moon, we're still building secret aircraft, and tall buildings are a 'mine's bigger than yours' vanity statement.
I still think your focusing on the negative and not seeing how things are better.
I mean, I'm cheesed at Obama axing the moon mission probably more than anyone here, but, still, I'd rather live in 2012 than 2002.
And I'd heap rather live in 2012 than 1962, when we were doing all those things you admire.
I still think your focusing on the negative and not seeing how things are better.
I mean, I'm cheesed at Obama axing the moon mission probably more than anyone here, but, still, I'd rather live in 2012 than 2002.
And I'd heap rather live in 2012 than 1962, when we were doing all those things you admire.
It was somewhat dragged to the moon...Americans were given significant incentive by the Soviets who were the first to put a man in space...
I do think Americans are much more apathetic now, though. They could care less if someone who is not an American discovered the Boson Higgs particle, or a cure for cancer, or made other significant advances in engineering and science...I don't know why this change has happened, but I think it's there...
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Dexman PE PMP
Internationally PMP'n his PE-ness
Someone has to Keep up with the Kardashians...
Master slacker
Something awesome.
I wouldn't necessarily call the Space Race a dragged-to-the-moon scenario. We dared to do something extraordinary and did it within 9 years.
Since I'm muddled in the education realm (since that's all I really know, I guess), I find it disappointing how sciences are not stressed as much as they were when I was younger. Sure it contains problems due to parents, teachers, etc..., but the visions set at the 20,000 foot level, if you will, just aren't there. And, without those, what dreams are coming from our kids as it pertains to the sciences?
The only thing I can do is provide the resources and opportunites for mini-MS 1 and 2 to learn and be curious about science and appreciate its worth. I just hope I can do enough.
Since I'm muddled in the education realm (since that's all I really know, I guess), I find it disappointing how sciences are not stressed as much as they were when I was younger. Sure it contains problems due to parents, teachers, etc..., but the visions set at the 20,000 foot level, if you will, just aren't there. And, without those, what dreams are coming from our kids as it pertains to the sciences?
The only thing I can do is provide the resources and opportunites for mini-MS 1 and 2 to learn and be curious about science and appreciate its worth. I just hope I can do enough.
It's pretty well documented that Yuri Gagarin's trip into space is what pissed off Kennedy enough to start the Moon Race and provided the impetus for the funding to make it to the moon less than seven years after the "We choose the moon speech."
You may be on to to something...Why can't we have American Idol, but for invention? I think it could work. Look at Americans' fascination with Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and even Mark Zuckerberg and Sean Parker...
Dexman PE PMP
Internationally PMP'n his PE-ness
There was a show on Fox a couple years back where inventors proposed buisiness ideas / innovations to investors to get off the ground. I think it lasted one season...
Edit: It's called Shark Tank and it's still running on ABC. http://www.tv.com/shows/shark-tank/
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Master slacker
Something awesome.
Touche.
As far as the "i" world and "Look-at-me!-book" fascinations, these kids are glued to phones all day. I wonder if even half of these kids will make it in life.
EM_PS
shining like a lighter...
Bah - America's in great shape! We the people celebrate Independence Day & snag headlines like this:
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/man_blows_part_of_his_genitals.html
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/man_blows_part_of_his_genitals.html
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
A lot of people are talking about how things are better, but it's just a "feeling" type statement. HOW are things better than they were in previous generations? Having more money is no excuse because there is more money to be had (because it is printed faster now than ever before).
All of the reasons that other countries suck (bad infrastructure, repressive regimes, etc.) are only in 3rd world countries or those that are openly communist/socialist/dictatorships. There are plenty of other 1st world countries that have most, if not all, of the comforts of America. I'm not saying that there is a utopian country though. For every other country with one thing better than the US, they have one drawback. But to say that America is the greatest country in the world is a little short-sighted. This has been a trend since 9/11 towards blind patriotism, and it has led us to hemorrhage a lot of personal freedoms that made our nation the best in the world.
I know my opinion on this subject will be summarily ignored or thrashed by most on this forum, but that's fine with me.
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
*raises hand*
Well that and some people may not realize that the whole discussion is based on a speech from a cable tv show, but it doesn't mean that the discussion isn't relevant...
In addition to seeing what is being passed off as science class to my own children at the elementary and secondary level, I am involved professionally with a number of college professors who are begging for qualified American graduate students to apply, but mostly they get foreign students who are taking their education back home and applying it there...
It's not good.
benbo
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^^^
Very likely there are countries with better infrastructure. But this is a big, diverse, melting pot of a country that still lets in lots of immigrants with assorted issues. I'm sure you could talk to plenty of people in Spain and France with a lot of complaints.
But the point about a dearth of scientifcally apt and curious students is pure bunk. Get over to the College Confidential website and see the type of intellectual youth this country is producing. Or read up on Intel, Siemens, TASP, the list goes on. Over 30K students applied to Harvard last year, virtually all of them capable of doing the work. Over 100K students scored above 700 on their Math SAT and around 14K scored 800. When I graduated in 1974, with about the same high school population, around 30K scored over 700. I took 5 AP exams in my jr and sr years. That was extremely rare since only about 50K students took the exams at all. These days over 2 million students enter college with AP credit.
Take a look at some of the Siemens research being performed by high school students these days. It makes the science projects of my time look like pla-do fun factory.
A lot of techncally able US students don't apply for grad school because they don't have to. They can get decent jobs without PhDs. I know a lot of them. We hired several last month.
And guess what. My dad, a Caltech grad, said the same thing about the students in my generation.
Sure, there are crappy schools. But here's a news flash, there have always been a lot of crappy schools. Maybe things are worse now at the lower end of the educational spectrum, but they are certainly as good or IMO a heckuva lot better at the upper end.
Very likely there are countries with better infrastructure. But this is a big, diverse, melting pot of a country that still lets in lots of immigrants with assorted issues. I'm sure you could talk to plenty of people in Spain and France with a lot of complaints.
But the point about a dearth of scientifcally apt and curious students is pure bunk. Get over to the College Confidential website and see the type of intellectual youth this country is producing. Or read up on Intel, Siemens, TASP, the list goes on. Over 30K students applied to Harvard last year, virtually all of them capable of doing the work. Over 100K students scored above 700 on their Math SAT and around 14K scored 800. When I graduated in 1974, with about the same high school population, around 30K scored over 700. I took 5 AP exams in my jr and sr years. That was extremely rare since only about 50K students took the exams at all. These days over 2 million students enter college with AP credit.
Take a look at some of the Siemens research being performed by high school students these days. It makes the science projects of my time look like pla-do fun factory.
A lot of techncally able US students don't apply for grad school because they don't have to. They can get decent jobs without PhDs. I know a lot of them. We hired several last month.
And guess what. My dad, a Caltech grad, said the same thing about the students in my generation.
Sure, there are crappy schools. But here's a news flash, there have always been a lot of crappy schools. Maybe things are worse now at the lower end of the educational spectrum, but they are certainly as good or IMO a heckuva lot better at the upper end.
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Are there more because they are so much smarter and well-educated, or is it because the standards are lower?
Those professors that I know are equally underwhelmed by the skill level of undergraduates as well.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen some awesome things that young people are doing (see the link above about the kid who made a glove for translating ASL), I just don't know if there are enough students out there right now who are truly driven towards innovation to keep the US as THE leader in science and engineering...
Those professors that I know are equally underwhelmed by the skill level of undergraduates as well.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen some awesome things that young people are doing (see the link above about the kid who made a glove for translating ASL), I just don't know if there are enough students out there right now who are truly driven towards innovation to keep the US as THE leader in science and engineering...
