Preparing for the Surveying exam

Hello,

I cleared the 8-hour and the Siesmic last April, and I'm left with the Surveying exam which I'll be taking in April 2013. Last April, I had studied from the Cuomo and Boniface books and did every problem in each of the books, but dint clear the CBT. However, the actual exam was very different from the practice problems in these books. Is it worth taking the review courses offered by Reza or Mansour to prepare for the exam, or is it sufficient to practice from the books?

Please help! Also, any tips on passing this exam would be greatly appreciated!

divs, you are close! Congrats on your 2/3 PE. The survey is not bad, you can do it for sure this spring. If you have the time and money, sure, take a class. But I know you can do it on your own. Re-work the three PPI books you mentioned (Survey Principles, 120, Practice Exams) and the problems from any other books you can get your hands on (Mansour and Mahallati). Even a college Survey text book can be useful. But, if you want a great free reference, may I suggest the Caltrans LS/LSIT Exam Prep Workbook? Yes, I know it's for the LS/LSIT but when you see it, I think you'll agree well over 75% of it applies to the CA PE Survey Exam. It has some good lessons followed by practice problems. You should be able to find it on Caltran's site. If not, PM me, I have a PDF of the workbook which I can e-mail you (there are also training videos on the Caltrans website corresponding to the workbook chapters). Best of luck to you.

I just took this exam this November, still waiting on results, but I am fairly confident. I didn't study much for it, I went through a short textbook and did some practice problems, maybe 10 hours total studying.

From what I gathered from taking the test, there are three things you need to know.

1) Foresight and Backsight problems

2) The civil/survey law practice stuff

3) Basic geometry.

Don't study traversing or instrument heights and all the random equations and all that stuff. Just go through your texts, mark the equations for temp correction and things like that, and then brush up on basic geometry. Seems like most of the problems can be broken down in to triangles and squares. Don't over think the problems and you should be fine. If I failed, it will be because I didn't know foresight/backsight problems and the law stuff. Everything else is basic geometry. 55 questions in 2.5 hours is plenty of time.

Thank you both for your replies/tips!

Ptatohed, I found the workbook on the Caltrans website and I think a lot of it does apply to the surveying exam. Thanks!

daniel85 said:

I just took this exam this November, still waiting on results, but I am fairly confident. I didn't study much for it, I went through a short textbook and did some practice problems, maybe 10 hours total studying.

From what I gathered from taking the test, there are three things you need to know.

1) Foresight and Backsight problems

2) The civil/survey law practice stuff

3) Basic geometry.

Don't study traversing or instrument heights and all the random equations and all that stuff. Just go through your texts, mark the equations for temp correction and things like that, and then brush up on basic geometry. Seems like most of the problems can be broken down in to triangles and squares. Don't over think the problems and you should be fine. If I failed, it will be because I didn't know foresight/backsight problems and the law stuff. Everything else is basic geometry. 55 questions in 2.5 hours is plenty of time.

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I do agree that a lot of the exam questions can be solved with basic math and trigonometry but I certainly wouldn't recommend only studying 10 hours or studying only three topics. You never know what you will get. I'd advise to study all the topics on the state's test plan. http://www.bpelsg.ca...n_civsurvey.pdf

divs said:

Thank you both for your replies/tips!

Ptatohed, I found the workbook on the Caltrans website and I think a lot of it does apply to the surveying exam. Thanks!

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You are welcome divs. Yeah, a good majority of it is directly applicable to the CA PE Survey Exam. You can probably skip Water Boundaries and Legal Descriptions (at least skim them) but most of the rest should apply. What isn't included is earthwork/quantities so make sure you brush up on that. Know your trig formulas inside and out. Know what surveys can be performed by a Civil and which require a PLS. Know how to read contours and plan/map scales.

Good luck!

The link to the CT LSIT Workbook/Videos (to save others a simple internet search. ) - http://www.dot.ca.go...orkbookTOC.html

divs said:

Hello,

I cleared the 8-hour and the Siesmic last April, and I'm left with the Surveying exam which I'll be taking in April 2013. Last April, I had studied from the Cuomo and Boniface books and did every problem in each of the books, but dint clear the CBT. However, the actual exam was very different from the practice problems in these books. Is it worth taking the review courses offered by Reza or Mansour to prepare for the exam, or is it sufficient to practice from the books?

Please help! Also, any tips on passing this exam would be greatly appreciated!

Click to expand...

You have to do the problems in Cuomo and Boiniface so many times (WITHOUT LOOKING AT SOLUTIONS FOR STEP BY STEP!) that no matter the problem you're given on the Exam, you will know exactly the tool you should select in order to solve the problem.

On my exam I had many problems involving roadway cross sections. Neither Cuomo nor Boniface had many roadway cross sections in their books. However, they did have the tools in their books that you needed to solve these roadway cross section problems - you just have to know which one to use.

The Caltrans stuff helps a lot too.

Another Suveying exam-related question. I'm a refile applicant and will be taking only the CA-specific Surveying exam in April 2013. I'm slightly confused about the fee structure. From the Board website, http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/fee_schedule_new.shtml, I understand that to take only one state-specific exam, we would pay $125 + $150 ($275) to the Board and then $62 to Prometric for the CBT. is that correct?

Also, are we supposed to register to NCEES for the state-specific exams? The refile form says that you have to attach a copy of the NCEES exam registration. Is that only for the 8-hour exams?

divs,

If you are only intending to sit for the Civil - Engineering Surveying exam, you are correct in your interpretation of the fee structure.

You only need to register on the NCEES Examinee Registration site if you are sitting for national exam(s). Registering for California state exams are no longer available on the NCEES registration site.

Feel free to contact your assigned application evaluator if you require more clarification.

div, yes it is confusing (and expensive). Yes, $125 application fee (for 1 or all 3 tests) plus $150 per state exam (for each Survey and Seismic) = $275 due to the state at time of re-application. Then a fee (I forget how much) to Prometric at the time of exam scheduling. You do not need to register w/ NCEES for the state exams. Good luck.

Sorry, I was typing while Ric was answering.

From my experience having passed Surveying the first time, you need to know the basic surveying principles very well because of the time crunch of the exam. It's totally fine to look equations up, but not from the book. You should have the equations copied out on a summary page along with all the parameters you'll need (and their units if unit agreement is an issue).

I felt over prepared for the exam, BUT that's because I had taken a 2 week surveying field course in university and then was a surveying TA. Luckily, non of the concepts in surveying are extremely difficult, but if you're studying by yourself without an experienced teacher to guide you, it is of course more difficult.

I just want to list a few things I had trouble with and I know other students also had trouble with initially:

• stationing - this is the essential simple concept that nearly all questions will rely on. I know quite a few young civil engineers who should know this but don't because they never came across it. Being comfortable with surveying/civil notation is crucial. And to know when to use the station number in an equation rather than the distance in ft (like those bridge crossing road questions).
  

• backsight/foresight - another essential and simple concept that looks confusing to the uninitiated because it's written down in a confusing way with minimal notation. No other advice other than you need to do tons of repetitive BS/FS questions until your fingers can do the math without you even thinking about it. It's just adding and subtracting, but you better be adding and sub the right things and you better start from the right initial elevation.
  

• horizontal and vertical curves - absolutely need to know these for those bridge crossing or obstructed view problems. Again, not crazy complicated. There's only a few sets of equations, write them down somewhere all together and make sure you note what the input parameters mean and where to find them and what unit they should be in (ft/station number, degrees/radians, etc).
  

• learn to use the degree function on your calculator!! - I have seen so many survey students tediously convert something like 56º12'30" to 56.2083º so they can work with a decimal number instead of the degree/minute/second notation. This is a waste of time. You calculator is perfectly capable of handling this notation and you should be able to add and subtract in this notation. If your calculator can't, you should get one that can. The one you used for your FE will work.
  

good luck.

Thank you Ric and ptatohed for the clarification. And thanks Square for the tips!

Also, with the new CBT exams, expect the questions to be grossly unlike anything you study in cuomo/boniface

gueuze said:

Also, with the new CBT exams, expect the questions to be grossly unlike anything you study in cuomo/boniface

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I disagree. I think the content is very similar. There are only so many surveying questions you can be asked and if you understand Cuomo thoroughly, the exam shouldn't be impossible. The main point is really to understand the principles and theories behind the surveying problems, and not just to know how to solve them through fixed steps. I hope I'm making sense, I've just seen a lot of my students be stumped when the question is framed in a new way even though they should know the principle behind the solution.

I would say that the format of the CBT is really awkward. I hate having to look back and forth between the computer and the graphics booklet, it's such a time-waster. But since everyone is on the same boat and no one is

I mean't to finish that last sentence from above ^

...since everyone is on the same boat, no one is being disadvantaged by this awkward booklet system. At least it's fair if not efficient.

Well said Square. I don't believe that the content of the exam questions is any different now that the test is CBT. Also, while there are some obvious disadvantages to CBT, everyone has the same disadvantage, therefore it's all fair.