SE Results are Out

[hessineer]

I took 16hr exam in IL. I failed both Vertical and Lateral. This is the 2nd time. I'm an experience engineer and studied really hard for the 2nd time. My mind is blown!!! both AM sessions my score was 20/40. in both cases for afternoon session my score was Un, Un, IR and A. I have no idea what to do next! can you help me? thanks.

 

[Phil Clark]

I took 16hr exam in IL. I failed both Vertical and Lateral. This is the 2nd time. I'm an experience engineer and studied really hard for the 2nd time. My mind is blown!!! both AM sessions my score was 20/40. in both cases for afternoon session my score was Un, Un, IR and A. I have no idea what to do next! can you help me? thanks.

What areas were you weak in?  Was it a question or two in all areas or was it more in certain materials or analysis or AASHTO?  How do you study problems?  For example, for morning type problems, I would work problems on a daily basis.  If I got a problem wrong, or couldn't do it without looking at the answer key, I would mark it and work it again the next day.  I would repeat this until I could do the problem without looking at the answer key.  Some problems took me 5 days to move on.  Then I would re-do all the problems closer to the exam.  For afternoon problems, it is important to show that you know what to do, even if you don't have time to do it during the exam.  For example, if you are supposed to "check" the adequacy of a masonry beam, you could just check bending, but you should also check shear, max/min area of bending steel, etc.  If you don't have time to do, it all, leave 10 minutes at the end of the problem to list the additional check you would do if you had time.

Did you find yourself running out of time?  What references did you use?  How much time is "studying really hard".  I spent over 700 hrs studying total between the two exams, (more for the first one I took - vertical).  I would consider breaking up the tests.  Just take one.  Some people say it is better to do both in one weekend, but I say you need to evaluate yourself and know how much information you can actually keep in the front of your mind.  I just took one per weekend because I have "kid brain" (two kids and my memory is mush - totally serious).

I noted in a previous post this thread the references I used for the lateral exam.  I would be happy to share the references I used for the vertical exam as well if you are interested...

 

[MIPE]

I took 16hr exam in IL. I failed both Vertical and Lateral. This is the 2nd time. I'm an experience engineer and studied really hard for the 2nd time. My mind is blown!!! both AM sessions my score was 20/40. in both cases for afternoon session my score was Un, Un, IR and A. I have no idea what to do next! can you help me? thanks.

My advice is to asses yourself first using one of the few sample exams available. Try to solve it without looking at the answers and using the same 4 hour exam time in each part. This should tell you about your weaknesses whether it is time, accuracy, or missing steps and start from there to address it.

 

[David Connor SE]

I took 16hr exam in IL. I failed both Vertical and Lateral. This is the 2nd time. I'm an experience engineer and studied really hard for the 2nd time. My mind is blown!!! both AM sessions my score was 20/40. in both cases for afternoon session my score was Un, Un, IR and A. I have no idea what to do next! can you help me? thanks.

The first thing I would do is split up the components. I could not imagine taking the lateral exam the day after the vertical exam. 

Just take one, and maybe consider doing lateral first. I found it easier to study for the lateral exam because you know it is going to be 75% ASCE 7/Seismic and 25% Wind.  With the vertical exam the possible types of questions are much more. 

Strictly study the NCEES SE exam spec subjects listed. Don't stray too far "into the weeds" when you study.  Yes, you may get an off the wall question that is not specifically listed as an SE exam subject, but you will cover almost everything you should see on the exam. 

Work our problems from study guides. That means work them out without looking at the solutions. This will help you notice what small nuances that you may miss, etc. My guess is that on the morning session, you arrived at answers that were listed and made you feel pretty good that you got the correct answer. They purposely put incorrect answers on the exam like that! You need to remember to use the correct factors, etc. That what seems to trip people up on the morning sections. 

But first thing, DON'T TAKE BOTH EXAMS THE SAME WEEKEND!  

 

[K Engineer]

I strongly agree with David about splitting the exam up.  I started studying 4 months out on each and at the two month mark, I took the PPI practice exam to see where I was with studying and then I took the NCEES practice exam the weekend before the test to see if I am ready to go.    I don't think the "plug and chug" method is quite adequate for the SE.  Instead, I read through all of the codes and textbooks to be used on the exam at least twice and even used the School of PE as a means to get a refresher on topics.  Plus it is a huge bonus if your current work is hitting a lot of the NCEES topics.  I was fortunate to have a lot of projects that covered rigid analyses and high seismic.  Just some food for thought that I found helpful for myself.

 

[User1]

What areas were you weak in?  Was it a question or two in all areas or was it more in certain materials or analysis or AASHTO?  How do you study problems?  For example, for morning type problems, I would work problems on a daily basis.  If I got a problem wrong, or couldn't do it without looking at the answer key, I would mark it and work it again the next day.  I would repeat this until I could do the problem without looking at the answer key.  Some problems took me 5 days to move on.  Then I would re-do all the problems closer to the exam.  For afternoon problems, it is important to show that you know what to do, even if you don't have time to do it during the exam.  For example, if you are supposed to "check" the adequacy of a masonry beam, you could just check bending, but you should also check shear, max/min area of bending steel, etc.  If you don't have time to do, it all, leave 10 minutes at the end of the problem to list the additional check you would do if you had time.

Did you find yourself running out of time?  What references did you use?  How much time is "studying really hard".  I spent over 700 hrs studying total between the two exams, (more for the first one I took - vertical).  I would consider breaking up the tests.  Just take one.  Some people say it is better to do both in one weekend, but I say you need to evaluate yourself and know how much information you can actually keep in the front of your mind.  I just took one per weekend because I have "kid brain" (two kids and my memory is mush - totally serious).

I noted in a previous post this thread the references I used for the lateral exam.  I would be happy to share the references I used for the vertical exam as well if you are interested...

I'm interested. and I'm sure others are as well! Out of curiosity, how many problems would you work per day? 

 

[Phil Clark]

I'm interested. and I'm sure others are as well! Out of curiosity, how many problems would you work per day? 

Well, since you are interested...

For Vertical my main study reference was the Structural Engineering Reference Manual (SERM).  This was my main reference for the exam as well.  It has the bulk of the information you need right in this one book, in both ASD and LRFD.  You need to weed out some lateral stuff if you are just taking vertical, but this book is mostly for vertical (in my opinion, see previous post for lateral uses).  David Connor's book for Vertical AASHTO components.  I think studying AASHTO would be hard regardless, but for vertical, where would you even start!  David's book really hones in on fundamental topics discussed in the NCEES outline.  The two practice exams (PPI and NCEES), and Structural Engineering Solved Problems, by PPI (I think, I'm not at work so am not looking at the references on my bookshelf).  I spent months in the SERM.  I would say over 100 hrs.  I started in June before the April exam.  There is just so much stuff to sink in.  A co-worker said he would have gotten the SERM a year before the vertical and just gone through it a little bit at a time if he had to go back and do it again.  You should know this book inside and out.  I studied my Structural Analysis textbook from college for all of the fundamental structural analysis type problems.  I am fortunate to have piers and mentors at my office who were willing to take the time and help me understand topics I didn't quite get the first (or second) time through.

So, in the beginning, Vertical, I went through the SERM and David Connor's book.  8-10 hrs per week for the first 6 months.  I would study before work or after work and several hours on the weekends. If I was going through the morning style practice exams, that would be about 4-6 problems in an hour and a half.  I took a practice exam 2.5 months out, timed, on a Saturday.  Sunday I would grade the morning portion of the exam, break problems into categories (ASCE, AISC etc) and see how I did in each category.  The following week I would start going through the morning problems.  It was slow, probably took me a 15-20 minutes per problem because I was really trying to figure them out on my own, before looking at the answer key.  If I needed to read up on something, I would take an extra half hour, find the code section, read it one or two or three times, then go back to solving problems.  If I couldn't get a problem, I would walk through the answer key,  mark it and come back to it the next day, repeat, until I could do the problems without looking at the answer key.  The next weekend, I would grade the afternoon problems.  This was my favorite part (oddly, I did enjoy some of the studying).  I would see what parts I got right, and if there was a part I got wrong (of which there were a lot) I would re-work that part of the problem right then and there, following the answer key.  I would spend at least 2 hours per afternoon problem this first weekend.  I came back the next weekend and re-worked the afternoon problems, then graded them the same way.  Not only did this help me learn the problem, but it burned the type of problem into my brain so if needed, I would remember where to go to find this problem.

While I did start studying very far out from the exam, it wasn't horribly intense and I don't think I got burned out (unlike for lateral).  I will say, I probably spent 50 more hours than I needed (of 450).  It took a good month to just get back into some sort of study habit (8 years since college).  For lateral, I condensed my study to about 5 months out, and 300 hours (exactly, I kept track).  I started studying for lateral 3 weeks after I took the vertical (didn't know yet if I had passed vertical).  I would study 2 hours per day from about 11am to 1pm at my office and another 4-6 on the weekend.  My employer was very generous to help work with my schedule in this way.  It worked out very well to spend the morning getting my brain going with work things, then study for 2 hours, then finish out my day working.  I tried to get 16 hrs per week for the lateral exam.

Maybe some people think it's a no-brainer, but repeating problems until I got them has been the only way I could pass this test.  You may be one of those people who can just read something once and remember it, where it is in the code and it just makes sense the first time.  But if you are one of those people who thinks you are one of these people, but actually are not, than you need to snap out of it.  It won't work.  You won't be able to just read through a chapter and example problems in the SERM and then expect to remember how to do something similar on a practice exam or real exam and get it right.  You need to suck it up and do these things over and over and over.  If you think, "I think I've got this" than you don't know it well enough.  You need to know it "backwards and front" as Barney Fife would say.  One of my co-workers was fortunate to have a brain like that.  He may have spent 150 hrs between the two exams.  The other 3 co-workers to take this test spent up to 400 hours between the two exams.  One of them still had to take each part twice.  And then there was me at 750 hours.

Well, that is a lot of text.  I hope it is helpful to someone, because my wife just glazes over when I start talking about this stuff.  I may have over prepared, but I didn't want to take this thing more than once.  Good luck to all.  The test will rake you over the coals, but growth is always painful.