Quitting Smoking

[Chucktown PE]

Here's the dichotomy, though:
A)They smoke in Europe.

B)Everything is beter in Europe.

This is the kind of logic bomb that Captain Kirk would use to get the evil robots to self destruct.

Holy shit man. You just blew my mind.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

 

[Guest]

I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.

I agree with this whole heartedly!
And rule at my work is even worse. We aren't allowed to use tobacco products on neighboring property, even if the owner says it's okay. But at least it's not a gubment rule, just one my work was conned into adopting to save money on insurance. Two of the non smokers are so happy about this rule, but little do they know that the door has been opened. What rules is the insurance company going to coerce my company into applying next year? No sugar, no fried foods, weekly cholesterol checks??

Well .. I respectfully disagree from the perspective that it is a public health issue and not a property rights issue. Cigarette smoke is a known carcinogen supported through numerous studies. Bans on indoor smoking I think are justifiable since most places are not ventilated well enough to mitigate the exposure. Smoking outdoors - I might tend to agree it may be excessive based on the body of knowledge that I have familiarity.

I went into a bar in Wyoming a couple years back and was surprised to see people lighting up. It was an Ohhhh yeahhh this is still allowed in some places sort of moment.

I had the same experience when I moved to MI - I had forgotten places do not have any bans. There have been a few initiatives brought up in the legislature but they seem to get sidelined with how much/how extensive. Many restaraunts have voluntarily gone smoke-free in anticipation of the smoking ban.

I bet you could put a measure on the ballot guranteeing everyone a $100,000 salary and it would pass by 70%. That doesn't necessarily mean it's 1. constitutional or 2. feasible. There is this pervasive thought in the world right now that if the majority of people believe something then it must be true and just. This country was not set up as a democracy. The founders knew that a democracy wouldn't work. This horse shit with smoking bans is just another bunch of populist bullshit and powergrab by the ruling class, aka politicians.

Based on my previous statement - I don't believe the property rights of the individual outweigh the public health concern of the public at large. Respectfully submitted.

This is the kind of logic bomb that Captain Kirk would use to get the evil robots to self destruct.

Ut oh .. I feel my argument losing traction ....

JR

 

[Desert Engineer]

A twist on the smoking/non-smoking isssue is that I know at least a dozen people (mainly construction workers) that have switched from smoking to chew. I wonder if the dentist charges extra for looking/working on their gnarly mouths. Seriously, sometimes (with my sun glasses on) I find myself staring at the black spots on their teeth and gums as they talk; then when we're in meetings, they grab an impromptu spittoon and drool in it every couple of minutes. The upside is that the constuction trailer smells as good as a construction trailer can.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Well .. I respectfully disagree from the perspective that it is a public health issue and not a property rights issue. Cigarette smoke is a known carcinogen supported through numerous studies. Bans on indoor smoking I think are justifiable since most places are not ventilated well enough to mitigate the exposure. Smoking outdoors - I might tend to agree it may be excessive based on the body of knowledge that I have familiarity.

Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.

What you propose is a very slippery slope. For instance, it is known that drinking causes health issues (most notably liver problems), and the effects of drinking and driving are also well known. By extrapolation, it could be said that having bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is a public health issue. The government tried banning alcohol one time, and we all know what happened then. This time, with smoking, they have run a carefully executed smear campaign against tobacco to avoid the backlash of smoking bans. I'm not trying to mitigate the health issues surrounding tobacco use, just pointing out that the government is manipulating the populace...again.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

The women's temperance unions ran a pretty good smear campaign against akkie-hol back in the day. There just aren't many alive to remember it. It was probably much worse than the one being run against tobacco.

 

[Chucktown PE]

Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.
What you propose is a very slippery slope. For instance, it is known that drinking causes health issues (most notably liver problems), and the effects of drinking and driving are also well known. By extrapolation, it could be said that having bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is a public health issue. The government tried banning alcohol one time, and we all know what happened then. This time, with smoking, they have run a carefully executed smear campaign against tobacco to avoid the backlash of smoking bans. I'm not trying to mitigate the health issues surrounding tobacco use, just pointing out that the government is manipulating the populace...again.

Thanks for responding. I agree with every word of this. Also, I will note that I absolutely hate cigarette smoke. It makes me cough for days and gives me an instantaneous headache. If I smell smoke in a restaurant I immediately turn around and walk out the door unless it's a business dinner. However, I have no right to use the police power of government to keep people from smoking on someone else's private property.

Here's another little conundrum. Some of my parents' good friends smoke in their house. My parents won't go over there any more because cigarette smoke does the same thing to them as it does to me. But they smoked with their kids in the house all their lives. So infants, who have absolutely no choice in the matter, are being subjected to cigarette smoke. Should the government police their houses to prevent them from exposing their children to 2nd hand smoke? What about women who smoke or drink when they are pregnant? Again, this is all a very slippery slope. While it sucks to have to put up with things like cigarette smoke, the loss of liberty is much worse.

 

[GulfCoastCivil]

A twist on the smoking/non-smoking isssue is that I know at least a dozen people (mainly construction workers) that have switched from smoking to chew. I wonder if the dentist charges extra for looking/working on their gnarly mouths. Seriously, sometimes (with my sun glasses on) I find myself staring at the black spots on their teeth and gums as they talk; then when we're in meetings, they grab an impromptu spittoon and drool in it every couple of minutes. The upside is that the constuction trailer smells as good as a construction trailer can.

Chew and snuff are also banned at work and on neighboring properties. But I think the chew guys cheat. Now they spit into dark colored cups rather than clear water bottles.

 

[csb]

Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.
What you propose is a very slippery slope. For instance, it is known that drinking causes health issues (most notably liver problems), and the effects of drinking and driving are also well known. By extrapolation, it could be said that having bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is a public health issue. The government tried banning alcohol one time, and we all know what happened then. This time, with smoking, they have run a carefully executed smear campaign against tobacco to avoid the backlash of smoking bans. I'm not trying to mitigate the health issues surrounding tobacco use, just pointing out that the government is manipulating the populace...again.

I'm pretty sure that if an establishment has business practices that cause it to lose money that the government is going to get involved (see ex. GM, Chrysler).

 

[MA_PE]

Chew and snuff are also banned at work and on neighboring properties. But I think the chew guys cheat. Now they spit into dark colored cups rather than clear water bottles.

well even that sounds like an improvement to me.

 

[vollEngineer]

Since you asked for advice, I can tell you what helped me quit smoking, stop eating meat, lose 40 pounds, and pay off my debts. I never told myself that I would never have another cigarette or eat meat or cake or shop or whatever. I give myself real permission to do any or all of those things. I literally tell myself - and mean it - that I can eat a steak or have a cigarette or whatever if i want to any time i choose. Then, when I am about to order some food or am offered a cigarette, I think "do i want it or not" (not whether "can I have it or not"). I consider the options and every time I choose against it.

The choices regarding cigarettes, for me, were easy - money, smell, health, stigma, and (for the last 2 years) my boyfriend wishes I wouldn't versus 15 minutes of a luxurious smoke break every time for 3-4 years now. You can do it. Try not to be anxious. Take your time and enjoy the progress you are making!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Guest]

I hope you are still going strong GCC!!

Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.

It is a lot more complicated than that - and in fact, I will defer answering here and take it to the political thread.

JR

P.S. - Linky for re-direct

 

[GulfCoastCivil]

Just wanted to post that I'm still smoke free. Came real close last Saturday when I got stranded after tubing (sorta, it's a long story) by a friend and had to walk over 4 miles in a bathing suit and aqua socks after being in the water for 7 hours, but I made it through. By the time we got to the car I pretty much had no skin left on the bottom of my feet, it was really gross and painful. Wanted a cig real bad, but I pulled through.

Haven't been on much cause I'm RPRing.

 

[Guest]

GCC,

It's all good as long as you have been able to keep at it!! Awesomeness!!

JR