Potentially Need some Career Advice....

[guitarjamman]

I currently have been working at a small design firm (anywhere from 8-10 employees given the time of year) and I like what I do. I have 4 years under my belt and currently studying to take my PE next year. That being said, where I am at now, I have a lot of responsibility and freedom in my position. My boss (who is also the owner) gives me free reign on projects and expects me to come to him when I have an issue or need guidance on how to advance projects. I lead the company survey department, am the head drafter, lead designer on smaller projects, and take on the roll of construction admin. when the time calls for it. To sum it all up, I get involved in many different aspects of being a civil engineer and get to let my chest expand when I feel like it - no one barks down my throat or rides my ass. There are parts of my job that I am not fond of (but I understand everyone has these) so it is easy to look past those downfalls.

Now for the dilemma; I am underpaid. I would estimate $10K/year under what I feel I am worth. My benefits here are terrible (due to the small company size) so I use my wife's plans. I have gone to my boss before, but there is no money in the company to pay me what I feel I deserve (and again, I understand this - he needs to keep everyone happy and still make a dollar). From what I have noticed, small companies tend to underpay but have a lot more freedom in the work life. An opportunity is arising where I am almost certain to land a new job as a Town Engineer; I don't want to give to much detail but I have been told if I want it once it is posted, I can have it. The pay would put me at what I feel like I am worth and the benefits would be much more glorious than I am currently dealing with. The real hurdle I am trying to weigh out in my mind would be the work.

The design and drafting would become very minimal - most of the work would be bid out to local private companies. I would mainly be dealing with the administration and management of the Town's projects (which is not bad), and it seems I would be the fireman who constantly puts out the metaphorical fires on sites.

I know that a decision like this is always mine to make at the end of the day. I am having a hell of a time though because I have not been working very long (4 years) and have been at my current company from day one. Is the grass greener on the public side of things? I want to do what is best for my family and at the junction in time - I believe the Town job would provide more security and pay as the days roll on. Am I missing something here that anyone can give insight to?

Thanks for making it this far and I appreciate anything you might be able to contribute.

 

[rktman]

Underpaid by $10k?, what region do you work in and how much do you make.

 

[rktman]

I currently have been working at a small design firm (anywhere from 8-10 employees given the time of year) and I like what I do. I have 4 years under my belt and currently studying to take my PE next year. That being said, where I am at now, I have a lot of responsibility and freedom in my position. My boss (who is also the owner) gives me free reign on projects and expects me to come to him when I have an issue or need guidance on how to advance projects. I lead the company survey department, am the head drafter, lead designer on smaller projects, and take on the roll of construction admin. when the time calls for it. To sum it all up, I get involved in many different aspects of being a civil engineer and get to let my chest expand when I feel like it - no one barks down my throat or rides my ass. There are parts of my job that I am not fond of (but I understand everyone has these) so it is easy to look past those downfalls.

Now for the dilemma; I am underpaid. I would estimate $10K/year under what I feel I am worth. My benefits here are terrible (due to the small company size) so I use my wife's plans. I have gone to my boss before, but there is no money in the company to pay me what I feel I deserve (and again, I understand this - he needs to keep everyone happy and still make a dollar). From what I have noticed, small companies tend to underpay but have a lot more freedom in the work life. An opportunity is arising where I am almost certain to land a new job as a Town Engineer; I don't want to give to much detail but I have been told if I want it once it is posted, I can have it. The pay would put me at what I feel like I am worth and the benefits would be much more glorious than I am currently dealing with. The real hurdle I am trying to weigh out in my mind would be the work.

The design and drafting would become very minimal - most of the work would be bid out to local private companies. I would mainly be dealing with the administration and management of the Town's projects (which is not bad), and it seems I would be the fireman who constantly puts out the metaphorical fires on sites.

I know that a decision like this is always mine to make at the end of the day. I am having a hell of a time though because I have not been working very long (4 years) and have been at my current company from day one. Is the grass greener on the public side of things? I want to do what is best for my family and at the junction in time - I believe the Town job would provide more security and pay as the days roll on. Am I missing something here that anyone can give insight to?

Thanks for making it this far and I appreciate anything you might be able to contribute.

Ok re-reading your post, I have a few comments from personal experience.

You have associated yourself with the lower paying part of your field (ie Surveying, Drafting, and Construction admin). It doesn't make sense since it's the necessary part of being a good engineer BUT you need to get away from that association if you want to make more money. In an existing position, that will be next to impossible.

If you can make more with the Town Engineer spot, GO FOR IT.

The benefits and perspective you will gain from that position will be tremendous for your career.

Four years is a long time to work for a company anymore. It sounds like you have made them money and acquired valuable experience (win-win). It would be a good time to move on.

Also don't be under the impression that your company cares about you on a personal level, they will not hesitate to downsize you if their workload decreases. Avoid counter offers.

 

[John QPE]

How will you be the township engineer without a license?

Municipal work is different. It is not as exciting, but much less stress. I just made the jump to municipal after 15 years doing private design work. If you will be the top dog at this new position, can you handle learning on your own? It makes a huge difference when you don't have someone to bounce ideas off. Also, most states require experience under a PE in design to account for your PE. Make sure you aren't doing yourself a disservice on your PE application.

Money is a big deal, and frankly, it is why we do what we do. The market is turning around, and I am seeing more and more jobs posted all the time. If you don't take this job, maybe just another at a higher pay scale. Once you realize you are underpaid, it is time to roll, IMO....your heart just isn't into the position anymore, and the fact that you aren't being paid what you are worth will always be in the back of your mind.

 

[guitarjamman]

How will you be the township engineer without a license?

Municipal work is different. It is not as exciting, but much less stress. I just made the jump to municipal after 15 years doing private design work. If you will be the top dog at this new position, can you handle learning on your own? It makes a huge difference when you don't have someone to bounce ideas off. Also, most states require experience under a PE in design to account for your PE. Make sure you aren't doing yourself a disservice on your PE application.

Money is a big deal, and frankly, it is why we do what we do. The market is turning around, and I am seeing more and more jobs posted all the time. If you don't take this job, maybe just another at a higher pay scale. Once you realize you are underpaid, it is time to roll, IMO....your heart just isn't into the position anymore, and the fact that you aren't being paid what you are worth will always be in the back of your mind.

I appreciate the adive - the DPW director is a P.E. for my state. That being the case, I am not too worried about getting my experience, even if the municipal work does not qualify. I got the 4 years already so I will be good to go whenever to take the test (again planning on grabbing it next year).

Seeing as you made the jump, is it the assumption that once you go to the public side of work, you tend to stay there? The last thing I would want would be to take the town job and then lets say in 10 years, decide to go back to private work. Does that hurt future job prospects with them knowing you were out of the design for as long as you are a Town emlpoyee? It seems easy to argue that you were responsible for all the review on the design plans you come across, but not physically doing the calculations.....

Thanks again

 

[John QPE]

I still do a decent amount of design for our capital projects, so I am not completely out of the loop. You probably would not be either.

I also "design" other engineers work fairly often....you write a review, they say they can't comply with this ordinance, you design it to comply

I do not think that going the municipal route will hurt you career wise if you go back to desing. If anything, it makes you more rounded.

 

[hjg7715]

How will you be the township engineer without a license?

Municipal work is different. It is not as exciting, but much less stress. I just made the jump to municipal after 15 years doing private design work. If you will be the top dog at this new position, can you handle learning on your own? It makes a huge difference when you don't have someone to bounce ideas off. Also, most states require experience under a PE in design to account for your PE. Make sure you aren't doing yourself a disservice on your PE application.

Money is a big deal, and frankly, it is why we do what we do. The market is turning around, and I am seeing more and more jobs posted all the time. If you don't take this job, maybe just another at a higher pay scale. Once you realize you are underpaid, it is time to roll, IMO....your heart just isn't into the position anymore, and the fact that you aren't being paid what you are worth will always be in the back of your mind.

I appreciate the adive - the DPW director is a P.E. for my state. That being the case, I am not too worried about getting my experience, even if the municipal work does not qualify. I got the 4 years already so I will be good to go whenever to take the test (again planning on grabbing it next year).

Seeing as you made the jump, is it the assumption that once you go to the public side of work, you tend to stay there? The last thing I would want would be to take the town job and then lets say in 10 years, decide to go back to private work. Does that hurt future job prospects with them knowing you were out of the design for as long as you are a Town emlpoyee? It seems easy to argue that you were responsible for all the review on the design plans you come across, but not physically doing the calculations.....

Thanks again

I can relate to your dilemna a lot and actually have been weighing my career options moving forward. I worked in the private sector for approximately 6-7 years as technician and designer before taking a job with a local municipality where I've been for 5 years now after development slowed and the company I was working for started to downsize. As some have indicated or eluded to, there's always pros and cons but I tend to side more with rktman. The opportunity to serve as a town engineer would provide you with a lot more rounded experience, professional development and would defintely help more than harm your qualifications if you were to return to the private sector. Now granted, your responsibilities would include a lot more general oversight, project management, and administration than actual design work but I think you would still be able to wet your appetite for design. And normally, the natural progression for civil engineers is to eventually transition from designers to more project managers...especially if we're looking to advance our careers and make more money. So serving as the town engineer would definitely enhance qualifications.

Personally, I'm looking to change jobs because I currently work for a small municipality where the opportunity to advance is very scarce or nonexistent and by having so many responsibilities, I'm pulled in too many directions which takes aways from my ability to get the additional progressive experience I need to become professionally licensed. Additionally, I'm drastically underpaid because I was originally hired as a midlevel technician but since coming aboard, I've completed my bachelors degree, gotten my E.I. certification, taken on several additional responsibilities including design work, project oversight and new responsibilities with our NPDES program. I essentially have the responsibilities that's equivalent to civil engineer I/II and technician. The problem however is that all employees salaries have been frozen since I've been here...this includes cost of living increase and no new posititions have been added to my division which was promised each year for the past 3 years.

With that said, weigh any decision to change jobs carefully...make sure you understand the pros and the cons. Like someone else said, loyalty is a thing of the past and if you believe you're being underpaid then explore your options. I'm a believer that it doesn't matter if the grass is greener or not on the other side of the fence, you still have to water and fertilizer your grass. So if you make the jump, make the most of it.

 

[solomonb]

OK, I am going to argue differently. For a moment, forget about the money. The work environment is what you want to focus on. If you enjoy the freedom to come and go as you see fit, do as you see fit as long as the job gets done-- that may very well be worth $10K. I would want to do some hard research, backed up with hard numbers, on insuring that you are $10K shy of where you think you are. You may be-- however, I would sure verify it before I did anything real drastic.

The municipal engineer is always fighting with the taxpayers, the city administrator and the city council. Now, in private practice, you are fighting with the client-- the question is which fight is easier to win? Not sure! Municipal work is both challenging and rewarding. However, working for the man is as well.

Now the benefits question-- thiat is real. The municipal probably has better benefits-- and you need/want good benefits-- especially if you have kids or are thinking about having kids. Pregnancy and health insurance are very very important.

Going to the municipal arena and then coming back to private practice is not a bad idea. You bring your government experience to your new private gig, with a much greater appreication of what the government toads need and require.

Check out to be sure the salary delta is $10K less. If it is, go for the municipal job and get your PE license. I am not sure that I agree withe poster above that said do not accept a counter offer-- you very well might get the $10K plus some if they really value you. Of course, you may get nothing other than being told not to let the door hit you in the ass walking out as well.

Go for it-- if you never you go look around the corner, you will never know what is there.

 

[kpf]

I'd go for the municipal job:

1. Change is good

2. 10k+

3. Better benefits

4. If nothing else you get a chance to brush up on your resume writing and interview skills... both skills that go cold when not used and have the potential to be under appreciated until you need them.