non-eng job after college
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I just don't see HOW someone can "take some time off" after college and do all the exciting, exotic, adventurous, recreational things that you describe, Bean. Unless you are a trust fund child or you parents are loaded & indulgent. I enjoy all of that stuff, too, and getting a "real job" after college was my ticket to being able to afford to do that stuff. I loved skiing, for example, but Jeebus, what college student can afford to ski enough to get any good at it? The only kids I knew who were good skiers had rich parents who paid for them to do anything they wanted. Myself, and most people, I imagine, are not that fortunate and have to pay our own way through life. I got maybe one or two ski weekend a year, and had to work and save for that. And I never progressed beyond barely-black-diamond capable.
That said, I totally understand the feeling that a person might not want to buckle down into the workman's drudgery right away after college. I didn't (and still don't) want to, either, like I said early in this thread. But there are "productive" things that can be done with a life, that are productive to society, helpful to your future employment, and still adventurous. Working offshore oil, like I did - I certainly had my share of adventure and ton of good stories. The Peace Corps, like I suggested earlier. Or join the military; there are two wars still on-going. Frankly, that fact alone would make me feel a little guilty about taking time off just to have fun, at this point in history, at least.
That said, I totally understand the feeling that a person might not want to buckle down into the workman's drudgery right away after college. I didn't (and still don't) want to, either, like I said early in this thread. But there are "productive" things that can be done with a life, that are productive to society, helpful to your future employment, and still adventurous. Working offshore oil, like I did - I certainly had my share of adventure and ton of good stories. The Peace Corps, like I suggested earlier. Or join the military; there are two wars still on-going. Frankly, that fact alone would make me feel a little guilty about taking time off just to have fun, at this point in history, at least.
I didnt know that people who were a year older than me are also a whole generation older than me.
cdcengineer
Sharp as a piece of beach glass
It's a battle... Youth have time and no money and as we get older we have more money, but less time. Find the balance and do what makes you happy. Keep in mind that you're going to school for as a path towards a career, not a prison sentence.
I took time off before getting to work and it definitely made it difficult when the time came to "buckle down". But anything's possible. You might have to work harder later. If travel is what you want to do, I would recommend considering working for a few years, paying off debt (if there is any) and saving some cash while getting some valuable experience (and plumping the resume). Than, if you want to f'off - go for it. You'll be making room for a needy new graduate.
I took time off before getting to work and it definitely made it difficult when the time came to "buckle down". But anything's possible. You might have to work harder later. If travel is what you want to do, I would recommend considering working for a few years, paying off debt (if there is any) and saving some cash while getting some valuable experience (and plumping the resume). Than, if you want to f'off - go for it. You'll be making room for a needy new graduate.
Back in the day engineers starting pay, respect, vacation time, work flexibility, etc were much greater when adjusted for inflation (for the salary part). Naive HS students going into engineering think that the engineering profession is still that way, but in reality wages have been driven way down and it is no longer as respected as it used to be and student loans are more out of control than they ever have been since the creation of the USA , debt to income ratios are getting worse just to get an education, a modest home and basic reliable auto.
I worked with a pre-boomer and when he graduated he could support a family and pay off a single family home in about 3 years with his income, they had 1-2 cars and no student loan debt. That is unheard of these days. I can see why new graduates are reluctant to put their shackles on since they will have to wear them alot longer than their fore fathers long before them if they dont already have them on with outrageous student loan debt. My grandfather a pre-boomer was able to buy a house, support a family, buy rifles and an air plane on a coal miners pay, and not some junker welfare C-172 but a brand new PA-18 super cub. I am glad my grandfather and father are both pilots because otherwise it would take me another 5-7 years before I could finish my license, plane, hangar, etc.
I feel like I am just starting my career/life at 29 because I just got my student loans paid off last year but still have a mortgage for a small condo that I will probably die with that represents 3/8 of my income for the cheapest place I could find outside of the ghetto and thats as an engineer not a HS grad working in a warehouse or running a forkliftt.
Wage deflation and out of control tuition is a big problem in this nation and more and more young people are thinking why bother, MAYBE they can have something nice when they are 30-40 years old if they dont have a heart attack first or they can enjoy their time without the money.
And if you do make it there is more fraud, graft, theft and bogus court orders these days that seek to take it away. Have sex and a condom breaks have fun living on less than 50% of your income after CSED and uncle sam get their hands out of your cookie jar. I have never seen under the table engineering work.
Then you add the self righous berating of young people by boomers with no consideration for how bad things are in the USA right now and you reach critical mass and the younger generations are demotivated and your society crumbles. People were living on credit for the last decade before the 09 collapse and now you are going to see the economy for what it really is.
I am hoping that germany can get its act together can cut off all the leaches around them so that they will be a viable alternative to the USA when the USA crumbles and talented individuals have a safe haven rather than the world plunging into the dark ages like after rome fell. My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
Just sayin.
I worked with a pre-boomer and when he graduated he could support a family and pay off a single family home in about 3 years with his income, they had 1-2 cars and no student loan debt. That is unheard of these days. I can see why new graduates are reluctant to put their shackles on since they will have to wear them alot longer than their fore fathers long before them if they dont already have them on with outrageous student loan debt. My grandfather a pre-boomer was able to buy a house, support a family, buy rifles and an air plane on a coal miners pay, and not some junker welfare C-172 but a brand new PA-18 super cub. I am glad my grandfather and father are both pilots because otherwise it would take me another 5-7 years before I could finish my license, plane, hangar, etc.
I feel like I am just starting my career/life at 29 because I just got my student loans paid off last year but still have a mortgage for a small condo that I will probably die with that represents 3/8 of my income for the cheapest place I could find outside of the ghetto and thats as an engineer not a HS grad working in a warehouse or running a forkliftt.
Wage deflation and out of control tuition is a big problem in this nation and more and more young people are thinking why bother, MAYBE they can have something nice when they are 30-40 years old if they dont have a heart attack first or they can enjoy their time without the money.
And if you do make it there is more fraud, graft, theft and bogus court orders these days that seek to take it away. Have sex and a condom breaks have fun living on less than 50% of your income after CSED and uncle sam get their hands out of your cookie jar. I have never seen under the table engineering work.
Then you add the self righous berating of young people by boomers with no consideration for how bad things are in the USA right now and you reach critical mass and the younger generations are demotivated and your society crumbles. People were living on credit for the last decade before the 09 collapse and now you are going to see the economy for what it really is.
I am hoping that germany can get its act together can cut off all the leaches around them so that they will be a viable alternative to the USA when the USA crumbles and talented individuals have a safe haven rather than the world plunging into the dark ages like after rome fell. My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
Just sayin.
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Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
^Drunk post?
I know, it's a rough life isn't it? It really is a shame things are simply handed to you on a silver platter.
:violin:
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So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.
You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.
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Ble_PE
I need a beer.
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
Master slacker
Something awesome.
<Random plug for my quip in a different post about "stupid" and brown sugar.>
Only because they lost the war. Also a very small percentage of the germans that made germany great were actual nazi's. We will also probably never return to the immediate post WW2 USA again either.
Not really complaining just trying to explain the new generations mentality and why they feel that way, the boomers dont have to care but there will be consequences none the less. One can ether seek to understand the challenges this younger generation faces and seek common ground or not. Just dont expect medicare and social security to stick around because we really dont want to pay for it with student loan debt that is equivalent to half a house and mortgages that extend out to half your life time with wages stagnating at best and in most cases going down. There are going to be some major corrections to come, this economic resession is far from over, the next collapse is going to be the student loan crisis and most of the loans in default are not federally guarnteed.
I dont own a plane yet and my condo is not paid for so its just another shackle (unfortunatly rent has remained high in my area so selling and renting would not really get me out of the weeds, i dont know how the rental market is being proped up honestly). Its really not advantagious to buy or sell in my area right now unless you can find a forclosure that is not being run up in cost by a bidding war.
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I assume your reply in bold above was to the underlined statement in my post. WOW! I think maybe Homeland Security should take a look at you.
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Whose fault is it that students are taking out so much in loans to go through school? Maybe the students fault? I graduated with a Masters and $6k of student loan debt because I went to a city school that I got a scholarship from instead of going to Purdue. The only reason I had 6k in student loans was my fault and I'm not pointing my finger blaming anyone.
No one is forcing you to take out student loans or to go to expensive institutions.
That is true to an extent, but you were extremely fortunate to have a scholarship (and it sounds like it was for the most part a full ride), scholarships that cover even just most of the expenses of college and that are recuring every semester (so you are not scrambling ot find random scholarships every semster and if you cant find them have to stop in the middle of school or take loans) are incredibly rare these days. Students go into debt because education is the only hope at a better life and the american dream but degrees are paying off less and less these days but what other choice do you really have, be a HS graduate working at wal mart? Maybe your family is connected and can get you plugged into a 30$/hr job without college but most dont have that luxury. So calling it the students fault is a slippery slope when most have no other viable options to get themselves out of the situation they are in, its exploitation by educational institutions with no gov controls, you could make the same arguments about factories back in the day which spawned the start of unions.
America is starting to reach a point where young people are doing exactly what you suggest, not taking the loans and thus not going to school (since meaningful scholarships are incredibly rare), hard work is not paying off these days it simply shackles you. The student loan crisis is going to come from the last round of college graduates that entered college when things were still realtivly good but graduated into a crashed market, they no longer have the choice to not take the loans. So you seem to talk hard about it being the students fault but I wonder how you will adjust to a society where prosective students choose not to take the loans and instead engage in street crime, drugs or other activities because there is no longer a viable out to poverty in america without shackling yourself until your an old man or getting extremely lucky.
I have friends who are already considering such things becuase even if you can find an ok job after CSED and uncle sam get their hands out of your pockets your living on ~50% or less of your income. I usually suggest people just leave the nation because working for 20$/hr keeping 50% of your income you might as well be in a 2nd world nation because thats about all the ammenities that you can afford here anyways and at least everyone else will be in the same boat and you would not have to be exosed to the better life as seen through thoes driving nice cars on the road or million dollar homes on the hill, everyone will be broke so it wont be that bad. Another thing one can do is take the loans get the education and then take thoes skills somewhere where they are more appriciated and default on the loans. I am taking one class at a time towards a masters and its about 600$ a class but once I start taking 600 level it will be about 1000$ a class at a state school, thats not to bad for me now because I already have my undergrad (which I paid dearly for) and am making 40$/hr (I got extremely lucky on my journy to 40$/hr) but for someone out of HS with an earning potential of 10$/hr or less that would require loans or scholarships especially since to finish school in any timely fassion you have to be taking at least 12-14 hrs a semster which forces you to work part time (at 10$/hr at the most .....). I have not even brought up the inflated cost of housing near universities which probably equally contributes to the need to take loans, for engineers that should be good at math this concept should be pretty easy, unfortunatly when you put a $ sign next to the number people get self rightious but the bottom line is the numbers dont add up and thats the problem.
America is now pretty much an aristocracy, for every one person that got all the right lucky breaks there are 1000's that did not.
Just sayin
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I have a friend that moved to America at 13 from a war torn country and couldn't speak english. He joined the US National Guard and got his school paid for (BS/MEng) and has worked at multiple national companies.
Others *gasp* paid for school by working full time or took out MINIMAL loans, went on co-op and saved their money (1 year minimal co-op to graduate at my school).
I don't know why I bother...I've read your other posts here and you seem to take a woe is me approach to it all. You assume because you have an engineering degree people should grovel at your feet. I'm well respected and people perk up when I say I have an engineering degree. Maybe you're an arrogant engineer (I've met many) therefore no one respects you.
Others *gasp* paid for school by working full time or took out MINIMAL loans, went on co-op and saved their money (1 year minimal co-op to graduate at my school).
I don't know why I bother...I've read your other posts here and you seem to take a woe is me approach to it all. You assume because you have an engineering degree people should grovel at your feet. I'm well respected and people perk up when I say I have an engineering degree. Maybe you're an arrogant engineer (I've met many) therefore no one respects you.
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