How many times can one take the exam

[carlos2]

Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?

 

[carlos2]

Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?

Information about NY is listed in their website: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/pels/pelic.ht.../pels/pelic.htm. I did not see information about how many times you can take the exam. I would give them a call and find out. This is what I did in North Carolina. I learned about how many times you can take it by calling them. In North Carolina you can take it three times without a problem. For the fourth time you need to demonstrate that you prepared for the exam. And it gets progressively worse. To take the exam for the fifth time, candidates have to go before a committee that will prescribe remedial courses before you can take it again.

I wrote a publication that provides advice for repeat test takers: Guerrilla Tactics for the PE Exam. My advice is that you do not rush to take the exam again. Take extra time and overprepare for the next exam to make sure that you pass. I did this and it worked. The first and second time that I took the exam I was barely finishing the morning session in 4 hours and I was working answers for about 60% of the afternoon session. I passed the third time. I finished the morning session in three hours and worked out answers for 90% of the afternoon session problems

Carlos Chapek

www.testprepessentials.com

 

[rppearso]

That just means that in your neck of the woods for your particular disipline of engineering, engineers are expendible and not really worth much if you can so readily fire them over a non engineering related issue, its a simple supply and demand issue thats been my entire point all along, especially if there are a plethera of engineers getting shafted on compenstation, im not really bitching about it (maybe a little)

It's not an a non-engineering related issue, it's a non-professionalism issue. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, the demand is down and supply is up across the board in this country. If you want a job, let alone a fatty salary, you better be pretty damned good at what you do and be able to prove it.

but mostly just stating facts and that its really probably not a good idea for young people to get into because the money is not really there, the work is extremely difficult and requires alot of sacrafice and the pay out is really not all that,

Stating that you are stating facts does not make what you are stating factual. In fact, if you have to point out to people that your statements are factual, they are usually not.

heck I have 5 yrs experience and a PE and have not been able to break 6 figures yet let alone the 200k mark

Here's a clue, since you are obviously devoid of them. There are very few engineers that make six figure salaries with 5 years experience. All of them are in places with high costs of living (CA, NY, Chicago, etc), or they are exceptionally good at what they do. If I'm not mistaken, you are from Alaska, which has a medium cost of living and an exceptionally low tax rate (negative, I believe). You are going to need a lot more experience, or a move to higher paying region, or actually display talent instead of bitching about being underpaid in extremely long run-on sentences if you want to make that kind of money.

Then again, there's only so many times people will tell you this before they give up and report to personal attacks or attacks on your grammar or limited grasp of simple engineering concepts...which is what has happened on this forum, and apparently every other forum you have every joined.

I'm surprised you aren't a more happy person. I guess ignorance isn't bliss.

Well you agreed that supply is up and demand down for engineers and they are not making the money they once used to so you upheld all my assertions hence why I tell young people not to do it, all the other hoop la is irrelavant, if the money is not there then people should not start into it as a carrer field, I kind of got burned because when I was looking at programs in the 90's engineers were respected and compensation was high. Also Alaska is a very high cost of living (no taxes) but the cost for goods and real estate far outweigh the tax benifit. What usually goes down on forums like this is someone like you (contributor, original member, buddy buddy with the site owner, etc) can make inflamitory remarks and when I defend myself I get banned, thats just life, but if you cant rationalize with me in a civil manner why my opinion/views are messed up other than by making inflamitory remarks then im not just going to roll over. You started off right out of the gate with all kinds of inflamitory remarks and hate and expect me to "get it". There is not to much I can do about my situation right now because im to far commited to engineering (and I do like it) but it sucks. I am actually a very happy person I just dont like working for free and im very surprised that others do. Its almost like I have to re-figure out what I want to do when I grow up if im going to make any money, I can play it out a few more years but if compensation does not improve I will have to find something else before im 40 and working for sub 6 figures just because there are to many engineers and the profession has basicly become worthless.

 

[Dexman PE]

I think the point you are missing is that you seem to be under the impression that just because you're an engineer and you have your PE, you should automatically command 6 figures. It appears you truly don't understand the dynamic of the engineering field. Yes, supply is up and demand is down, but it's more complex than that. You forget that most of the engineering contracts are awarded to the low bidder. As long as the supply of engineering firms is more than the demand for engineering work, those low-bid contracts will continue to hold engineering prices down. How do you expect to win any work (and ultimately keep a job) if you're submitting bids for $100/hr if low bid contracts are going to $40/hr engineers? As long as consultants continue to work on low-bid contracts, the rest of the industry will set their pay rates accordingly (why should the states pay their engineers $100/hr if consultants are only charging $40?)

Couple that with the fact that the number of contracts continue to go down because both public and private agencies dont have the funding they used to due to reduced income streams.

Additionally, income levels depend heavily on location. Do you really know how Alaska compares to the rest of the US for cost of living? Here is a website dedicated to cost of living comparison:

http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp

According to this site, a $100k income/cost of living in Denver (where I live) is comperable to $90k in Anchorage. Denver is NOT even close to being the most expensive place to live in the US. People live very comfortably with a total household income of under $50k here in Denver (own their own home, new cars every 3-5 years, AND have kids). Additionally, the average income in Denver is $38k compared to $35k in Anchorage (US average = $34k). Most engineers in the Denver area with a PE and ~5years experience earn in the neighborhood of $60k-$70k (depending on industry - mech vs civil vs chemE, etc), which according to the website is only $50k-$62k in Anchorage.

I think you really need to get a clue about what the hell you're talking about before you start spouting off "facts" concerning the engineering business, especially when you're spouting off on an engineering board. The reason so many of us have dropped to the level of name calling and put downs is that seems to be the only thing you really seem to be able to respond to.

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

OK, it's become obvious that mister rppearso isn't going to quit arguing and is getting under everyone's skin. He apparently gets his jollies going from message board to message board trying to see how many people he can tick off before he gets banned. I suggest we just don't respond to him. Everyone knows someone like this guy. You're never going to convince him or change his mind, so don't engage him.....

 

[MechGuy]

:banhim:

My only comment on the subject.

 

[MechGuy]

ok I couldn't help it, this quote from one of the other forums is just too good to resist!

"Try obtusetwitswhoareunabletocomprehendtheenglishlanguage.com"

 

[Dexman PE]

:banhim: My only comment on the subject.

+1

 

[rppearso]

I think the point you are missing is that you seem to be under the impression that just because you're an engineer and you have your PE, you should automatically command 6 figures. It appears you truly don't understand the dynamic of the engineering field. Yes, supply is up and demand is down, but it's more complex than that. You forget that most of the engineering contracts are awarded to the low bidder. As long as the supply of engineering firms is more than the demand for engineering work, those low-bid contracts will continue to hold engineering prices down. How do you expect to win any work (and ultimately keep a job) if you're submitting bids for $100/hr if low bid contracts are going to $40/hr engineers? As long as consultants continue to work on low-bid contracts, the rest of the industry will set their pay rates accordingly (why should the states pay their engineers $100/hr if consultants are only charging $40?)
Couple that with the fact that the number of contracts continue to go down because both public and private agencies dont have the funding they used to due to reduced income streams.

Additionally, income levels depend heavily on location. Do you really know how Alaska compares to the rest of the US for cost of living? Here is a website dedicated to cost of living comparison:

http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp

According to this site, a $100k income/cost of living in Denver (where I live) is comperable to $90k in Anchorage. Denver is NOT even close to being the most expensive place to live in the US. People live very comfortably with a total household income of under $50k here in Denver (own their own home, new cars every 3-5 years, AND have kids). Additionally, the average income in Denver is $38k compared to $35k in Anchorage (US average = $34k). Most engineers in the Denver area with a PE and ~5years experience earn in the neighborhood of $60k-$70k (depending on industry - mech vs civil vs chemE, etc), which according to the website is only $50k-$62k in Anchorage.

I think you really need to get a clue about what the hell you're talking about before you start spouting off "facts" concerning the engineering business, especially when you're spouting off on an engineering board. The reason so many of us have dropped to the level of name calling and put downs is that seems to be the only thing you really seem to be able to respond to.

I absolutly agree with you, its just a crumby deal and the money is no longer there like it used to be thats all I was saying hence why I dont recommend the field to others. I dont know how people live comfortably on 60k a year when that is like ~3k a month net and in a nice area of denver your probably looking at 2k a month for mortgage, gas, electric, internet, etc etc and then add kids and a car payment no way is that comfortable as you will be living pay check to pay check and as soon as your laid off your done. In order to get ahead before your 120 years old you have to be making more than 60k a year.... alot more.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

I absolutly agree with you, its just a crumby deal and the money is no longer there like it used to be thats all I was saying hence why I dont recommend the field to others. I dont know how people live comfortably on 60k a year when that is like ~3k a month net and in a nice area of denver your probably looking at 2k a month for mortgage, gas, electric, internet, etc etc and then add kids and a car payment no way is that comfortable as you will be living pay check to pay check and as soon as your laid off your done. In order to get ahead before your 120 years old you have to be making more than 60k a year.... alot more.

Give me an example of a time where the majority of PEs with 5 years experience made $100,000 or more. You seem to indicate that there was some "golden age" of engineering where everybody was swimming in silos full of money (a la Scrooge McDuck). I think that is a fantasy that you made up to rationalize spending way too much money for an education that apparently taught you nothing.

 

[picusld]

:banhim: My only comment on the subject.

+1

+1 more.

 

[kevo_55]

+1 as well.

 

[rppearso]

I absolutly agree with you, its just a crumby deal and the money is no longer there like it used to be thats all I was saying hence why I dont recommend the field to others. I dont know how people live comfortably on 60k a year when that is like ~3k a month net and in a nice area of denver your probably looking at 2k a month for mortgage, gas, electric, internet, etc etc and then add kids and a car payment no way is that comfortable as you will be living pay check to pay check and as soon as your laid off your done. In order to get ahead before your 120 years old you have to be making more than 60k a year.... alot more.

Give me an example of a time where the majority of PEs with 5 years experience made $100,000 or more. You seem to indicate that there was some "golden age" of engineering where everybody was swimming in silos full of money (a la Scrooge McDuck). I think that is a fantasy that you made up to rationalize spending way too much money for an education that apparently taught you nothing.

Its not that they were making 100k per say but if you adjust for inflation etc they were, I can ask the co worked that did the calcs but I suspect that you dont care about facts so much as you just want to flame me, if you are genuinly interested in why I feel we are all being ripped off I can ask him. There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though. All the major industries where the money tap was open full bore (also the missle defense and star wars projects, as well as numerous other projects) are all dried up, I talk to alot of older engineers and they made alot of money in the golden age. At this point I will be happy just to pay off my 1200 sq ft condo so I dont have to move back in with my parents if I am laid off so I dont feel like an indentured servant to the company because im working for scraps.

 

[roadwreck]

There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though.

There's your problem. You are focusing on one field of engineering, during a small window of time, with a limited sample size (your one friend that said they made a lot of money then).

Wake up. Engineers on the whole, were not making 6 figure salaries (or the inflation adjusted equivalent) during this "golden age" you speak of. Every industry ebbs and flows. There will be times when the demand is high for a particular industry and thus salaries may be higher. Then there will be periods when an industry falls out of favor, jobs will be hard to come by and salaries may go down. It happens in every industry. Make broad generalized statements that all engineers are underpaid b/c we aren't all pulling in six figures just b/c we have PE's is asinine.

 

[rppearso]

There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though.

There's your problem. You are focusing on one field of engineering, during a small window of time, with a limited sample size (your one friend that said they made a lot of money then).

Wake up. Engineers on the whole, were not making 6 figure salaries (or the inflation adjusted equivalent) during this "golden age" you speak of. Every industry ebbs and flows. There will be times when the demand is high for a particular industry and thus salaries may be higher. Then there will be periods when an industry falls out of favor, jobs will be hard to come by and salaries may go down. It happens in every industry. Make broad generalized statements that all engineers are underpaid b/c we aren't all pulling in six figures just b/c we have PE's is asinine.

Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.

 

[Dexman PE]

I like how you equate paychecks under $100k/year as working for "free." Especially when the average US worker makes $34k/yr.

 

[Ble_PE]

Oh, but rppearso is not average. He did, after all, go to CSM, and he has the grammatical ability of a kid in middle school. He cannot be considered average!

:screwloose:

 

[Dexman PE]

Oh, but rppearso is not average. He did, after all, go to CSM, and he has the grammatical ability of a kid in middle school. He cannot be considered average!
:screwloose:

Hey, don't rag on CSM. Just because he's an idiot doesn't mean all CSM alum are idiots..

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Its not that they were making 100k per say but if you adjust for inflation etc they were, I can ask the co worked that did the calcs but I suspect that you dont care about facts so much as you just want to flame me, if you are genuinly interested in why I feel we are all being ripped off I can ask him. There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though. All the major industries where the money tap was open full bore (also the missle defense and star wars projects, as well as numerous other projects) are all dried up, I talk to alot of older engineers and they made alot of money in the golden age. At this point I will be happy just to pay off my 1200 sq ft condo so I dont have to move back in with my parents if I am laid off so I dont feel like an indentured servant to the company because im working for scraps.

So, you have anecdotal evidence from one old-timer in your office about guys in one office making a killing off of one huge contract, and that proves that the MAJORITY OF ENGINEERS WITH 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND A PE WERE MAKING $100K +? I'll even give you the adjustment for inflation, and call bullshit on your example. That's like saying that bankers in NYC averaged a $1 million salary during the dot com boom, so current bank tellers at your local branch bank are essentially working for free because they only make $35000.

Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.

This is why people don't respect you. Making the average or median salary of people with your credentials for your industry in your region of the country DOES NOT equate to "working for free". You missed the "gravy train"...it left the station, along with the train to Hogwarts, a long time ago (i.e. it never existed).

We have all come to grips with the fact that you are incapable of grasping reality, but please, do not offer any advice to new engineers. You know not of what you speak, and since this is a forum dedicated to giving advice to engineers, it's better if you keep your mouth shut.

 

[rppearso]

Its not that they were making 100k per say but if you adjust for inflation etc they were, I can ask the co worked that did the calcs but I suspect that you dont care about facts so much as you just want to flame me, if you are genuinly interested in why I feel we are all being ripped off I can ask him. There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though. All the major industries where the money tap was open full bore (also the missle defense and star wars projects, as well as numerous other projects) are all dried up, I talk to alot of older engineers and they made alot of money in the golden age. At this point I will be happy just to pay off my 1200 sq ft condo so I dont have to move back in with my parents if I am laid off so I dont feel like an indentured servant to the company because im working for scraps.

So, you have anecdotal evidence from one old-timer in your office about guys in one office making a killing off of one huge contract, and that proves that the MAJORITY OF ENGINEERS WITH 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND A PE WERE MAKING $100K +? I'll even give you the adjustment for inflation, and call bullshit on your example. That's like saying that bankers in NYC averaged a $1 million salary during the dot com boom, so current bank tellers at your local branch bank are essentially working for free because they only make $35000.

Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.

This is why people don't respect you. Making the average or median salary of people with your credentials for your industry in your region of the country DOES NOT equate to "working for free". You missed the "gravy train"...it left the station, along with the train to Hogwarts, a long time ago (i.e. it never existed).

We have all come to grips with the fact that you are incapable of grasping reality, but please, do not offer any advice to new engineers. You know not of what you speak, and since this is a forum dedicated to giving advice to engineers, it's better if you keep your mouth shut.

Sounds like you need to print off that black water motivational poster that someone on here posted (im sorry, I cant hear you over the sound of how awesome I am), how you think will dictate what goes down in your life. If you dont settle or take crap from anyone you will get alot farther than if your like "yes master I will do what ever you say and take on liabilities for "free"", when you refer to sub par wages as "free" it motivates you to go further work harder, find the angles, create the net works to get where you want to be...and a little luck. Do you think the US fought off the british by sitting around drinking tea and saying oh the british are people too, no way.