foreign undergraduate degree and US master

[Somerset]

I had same issue, my BS from China is not listed in the ABET, so the NY Dept. treat my BS as Bachelor of Engineering, which means that I need extra two years working experience. I had enough years of working experience in US, so I finally got approval for the exam.

Your case is similar, as long as you got the Bachelor of ENgineering, maybe okay.

 

[Octave]

Whether your degree is from Germany, China or Pluto is immaterial. There are good and not-so-good schools everywhere, the US included. The fact is that if the degree is from a non-ABET school, the State Board wants the transcripts, syllabus, etc., evaluated.

I requested two official copies of my credentials from my foreign school. The school sent one copy directly to NCEES Credential Evaluations (I provided them with a FedEx account number). The school sent the second copy to a translator registered with the nearest US consulate. The translator provided a word-by-word translation to English and sent it along with the original documents directly to NCEES (again, using FedEx), and provided me with photocopies of the original documents and translation.

It did cost a significant amount of money and took some time as well, but this way NCEES received the documents directly from the school and the translator, satisfying such requirement.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Whether your degree is from Germany, China or Pluto is immaterial. There are good and not-so-good schools everywhere, the US included. The fact is that if the degree is from a non-ABET school, the State Board wants the transcripts, syllabus, etc., evaluated.
I requested two official copies of my credentials from my foreign school. The school sent one copy directly to NCEES Credential Evaluations (I provided them with a FedEx account number). The school sent the second copy to a translator registered with the nearest US consulate. The translator provided a word-by-word translation to English and sent it along with the original documents directly to NCEES (again, using FedEx), and provided me with photocopies of the original documents and translation.

It did cost a significant amount of money and took some time as well, but this way NCEES received the documents directly from the school and the translator, satisfying such requirement.

Did NCEES tell you what type of translator (certified, or member of some translator association etc.) to use? I mean would they have accepted something translated by the university (some English department or so)? What was your approx. cost for the translator?

I do have translations and wonder if I have the university review them for correctness (so that I don't make up things) and and have them stamp t it would be easier (and cheaper). And it still comes from the university.

 

[Octave]

Did NCEES tell you what type of translator (certified, or member of some translator association etc.)...I do have translations and wonder if I have the university review them for correctness...

I do believe the instructions called for a certified professional translator, which is what I used; he stamped each sheet and provided contact information. However, I'm pretty sure that NCEES would accept your translated documents if they came from the school directly, with official stamps or seals.

I suggest that you call NCEES Credentials Evaluations and ask them first, before proceeding forward. Keep in mind that they deal with similar cases all the time.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I do believe the instructions called for a certified professional translator, which is what I used; he stamped each sheet and provided contact information. However, I'm pretty sure that NCEES would accept your translated documents if they came from the school directly, with official stamps or seals.
I suggest that you call NCEES Credentials Evaluations and ask them first, before proceeding forward. Keep in mind that they deal with similar cases all the time.

It took me a while to find a phone number on NCEES website but finally found it and got to talk to a person. The lady said as long as the university sends and stamps it, it doesn't matter who translates it. It also could be that the university already had an English version and that wouldn't be done by a certified translator anyway (that last sentence is my interpretation). she also said even if they only sent the German documents to NCEES, they would send them (or a copy) to me so I can send them to a certified US translator who sends the translation to NCEES. Obviously I try the first route since translation sounds expensive. I'm just waiting to hear back from my German university how they want to handle that. The lady also said I can send my graduate school transcripts (not sure if it will mean anything, but can't hurt). Fortunately that is easy to do online and cost $ 10 and is in English. So I hope this works out somehow and maybe I can apply to write the test this fall. they also want my "Abitur" and she said they may accept the copy coming from me since I told her I got my Abitur in 1993 and it is unlikely to still get those documents from the school.

I also meanwhile got my EIT license (based on the old rules, with 4 years experience). not that that license is of any use, but at least my promotion is not on hold anymore.

So this is a little better news. hope I don't get disappointed.

 

[ChemORME]

I do believe the instructions called for a certified professional translator, which is what I used; he stamped each sheet and provided contact information. However, I'm pretty sure that NCEES would accept your translated documents if they came from the school directly, with official stamps or seals.
I suggest that you call NCEES Credentials Evaluations and ask them first, before proceeding forward. Keep in mind that they deal with similar cases all the time.

It took me a while to find a phone number on NCEES website but finally found it and got to talk to a person. The lady said as long as the university sends and stamps it, it doesn't matter who translates it. It also could be that the university already had an English version and that wouldn't be done by a certified translator anyway (that last sentence is my interpretation). she also said even if they only sent the German documents to NCEES, they would send them (or a copy) to me so I can send them to a certified US translator who sends the translation to NCEES. Obviously I try the first route since translation sounds expensive. I'm just waiting to hear back from my German university how they want to handle that. The lady also said I can send my graduate school transcripts (not sure if it will mean anything, but can't hurt). Fortunately that is easy to do online and cost $ 10 and is in English. So I hope this works out somehow and maybe I can apply to write the test this fall. they also want my "Abitur" and she said they may accept the copy coming from me since I told her I got my Abitur in 1993 and it is unlikely to still get those documents from the school.

I also meanwhile got my EIT license (based on the old rules, with 4 years experience). not that that license is of any use, but at least my promotion is not on hold anymore.

So this is a little better news. hope I don't get disappointed.

Congratulations on getting the EIT - great to know its not "holding you back" anyways! It sounds like you are certainly one step closer towards success as well..at minimum you've got some better direction anyways!

Best of luck! Now all you need to do is pass the test!

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Congratulations on getting the EIT - great to know its not "holding you back" anyways! It sounds like you are certainly one step closer towards success as well..at minimum you've got some better direction anyways!
Best of luck! Now all you need to do is pass the test!

After all this (I already had an evaluation...) stress over the last years the test seems to be the smallest hurdle. I read over the NCEES description of my area (Mechanical) and it doesn't sound too bad. With the right study material and some time studying I'm not worried. Obviously time will be an issue in the test. EDIT: the fact that the test is in IP units will be another hurdle, but will be manageable

For the FE I used the PPI material and that was pretty good for the test. the good thing about the test is that I have full control and can study as hard as I want. All that other evaluation stuff I don't have control, which I don't like.

 

[valkyrie]

Well I took the exam in WA state, and they accepted a copy of the AACROA's transcripts that they had accepted, 3 years before for my FE exam. give them a call and try to reason with them. they have granted the eligibility to take the FE exam based on a valid document, so now it really doesn't make scene not to recognize what they already have accepted and granted the eligibility based upon that.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Well I took the exam in WA state, and they accepted a copy of the AACROA's transcripts that they had accepted, 3 years before for my FE exam. give them a call and try to reason with them. they have granted the eligibility to take the FE exam based on a valid document, so now it really doesn't make scene not to recognize what they already have accepted and granted the eligibility based upon that.

I had tried reasoning with the board in 2007. after i had passed the FE test they told me to get the AACROA evaluation (and I still have the email). but when I turned that in they admitted they hadn't talked to AACROA and only would accept it if AACROA would write on it that the evaluation meets NCEES standards. while the licensing board and AACROA tried to resolve this AACROA decided to not work with the state of WI anymore (wonder why). I then still tried to work with them to get that rectified. But at some point they jsut didn't answer anymore (I assume their boss had told them to cease it). that is how I got stuck. The state licensing board apparently made the mistake, but didn't own it. the right thing to do for them would have been to accept the AACROA evaluation regardless of it says "meets NCEES" since they told me to use AACROA. but they never did... and then told me I should use some other service. Needless to say that I was pissed to spend all that money and go through that argument. Including evaluation time it was almost a year of arguing until I gave up. I then started grad school and was hoping they would accept a Master's degree. I even think at that time (and i didn't keep copies of the website) their rules stated that with a graduate degree I only needed 3 years experience. anyway, now as of today a Master's degree is nothing to them.

Oh, and before AACROA the state told me to go to a different company. and they canceled their contract with the state of WI in the middle of the process and just send me everything back and refunded my fee excluding $ 70 for shipping. After that the state of WI didn't have any option to evaluate foreign degrees for probably 6 months. Then they came up with AACROA...

Honestly, I had my fair share of dealing with them.

 

[harriee]

.

 

[ELEPE]

I do have a German undergraduate degree (Diplomingenieur) and will graduate from the UW-Madison as Master of Engineering this week. I also have 4+ years of experience in the US. I did pass the FE in 2007 in the first try.
My problem is that the licensing board first had an evaluation firm (ECEI) they accepted. After I sent them my documents they canceled their work with WI licensing board and sent me my papers back and partially reimbursed my fee. then the board didn't have anyone doing evaluations of foreign degrees for a while. Then state licensing board told me to go to a company AACROA and they gave me an evaluation that my degree is " equal or better then a US bachelor". But then the licensing board didn't accept AACROA evaluations (apparently they never talked to them about what requirements they have). AACROA canceled their contract with WI licensing board too. Now WI has a new firm they (allegedly) accept evaluations from. But they require my German university to send in all documents in English (I'm not allowed to touch them). Problem is, my German university is small and they don't have any program documents in English and only release documents in the official language (German). Does anyone else have experience with that? Graduate school would accept my German documents. Anyway, I likely won't get a useful evaluation. Actually, passing the FE exam and attending graduate school was easier then dealing with these impossible-to-achieve requirements to get an evaluation.

Now my question:

- will they accept my US Masters degree? The official language is " 4 year degree" and all ABET accredited degrees are BS degrees. (the UW MAdison Mechanical engineering BS program is listed). In my world, a masters degree always trumps a BS. but we deal with state regulators here.

- will they count my work experience up to now even when that was done before graduating from grad school? (remember, in their eyes my German degree is nothing)

I plan to take the PE exam this fall. I searched for similar problems, but didn't find any.

It really depends on the particular state.

But if they say they require an ABET bachelors degree then a masters will not do, even if the school where you got the masters is ABET accredited. THe masters degree WILL give you one year of work experience that you can apply towards the work experience requirement for the PE exam. If you don't have a bachelors from ABET school (in your case) then you will need several more years of experience before you can take the PE exam.

They evaluate your work experience. Usually you write down what you did and a former supervisor has to vouch for you. Then they count how much design work you actually did. FOr example if you worked as an engineer for 5 years but 3 of the years you did not design then they only count two years of experience.

They will ALWAYS ask for a translated degree. You cannot possibly expect anyone there to read German. This is not Europe where people read and write several languages.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I applied and signed up for the Octobber test. the board will decide on 8/25.

(I gave them that old evaluation along with the email they sent me that I should get an AACROA evaluation, I also sent them my grad school transcripts)

In parallel I started an NCEES evaluation. Waiting for my German university to send them what they have. Hope that gets done before 8/25. So I hope one method will work.

Today I met an engineer at work who is in a similar or even worse situation. His undergraduate degree is from China and that school is not responding at all when he asked them about transcripts. He has an engineering PhD from the UW-Madison and the department also doesn't acknowledge his degree (PhD also only counts as one year education). why doesn't he just get 3 more PhD to be equal to one ABET accredited bachelor degree?

I really do hope there is some reasoning among the board members. It really is not common for foreign schools to send all that stuff around. They just don't do that.

If that all doesn't help I'm going to investigate the Minnesota option (since they would accept my graduate degree). Jeez.

 

[Somerset]

My BS from China is not treated as ABET so I have to need 7 years of experience----frustrating.

Luckily, my MS from University of Cincinnati gave me 1 year credit. I finally got my transcript from my University in China because the Library has the program---as long as you pay, your transcipt can be translated and sealed and mail to wherevwe-------Lucky.

If the mountain does not move, you need move to close to mountain-----You need make the Board happy.

 

[afewgood]

i am from a 3rd world country. during the sending procedure, we do some fake arrangement which show that the documents were sent from the university.in your case, translate a copy of your transcript and diploma in english. and send the package to your country to your friend who will help you posting them to the right place. ask your friend to get the english documents signed by your university. or if possible, forge everything-----------------------. that is the only way to fulfill what they ask without knowing how the foreign county runs ? they just know the USA way and nothing else.

Wtf?! please feel free to return to your 3rd world country anytime

****. you are rude but practical.

 

[ironman]

If they keep accepting forign degrees and transfering the credits and letting them get PE's no matter how much experience they have then US citizen engineers are going to have a tougher time getting good jobs and a good bill rate. Its hard enough to get young people to enter these fields from the US and it will be even harder competing with 3rd worlders (china and india included) who have sketchy degrees and are willing to work for 10 cents an hour or at the very least are soaking up good paying US jobs even if they are not contribuing to the wage deflation. China has massive issues with plagerism and academic dishonesty, they have not done one original thing technically in a very long time (like 1000's of years long time). India is a little better but never the less I dont want to compete with them, if there is some indian who has done some truely profound work (like nobel prize stuff) then let him in but otherwise I dont want to be competeing with some indian who got their degree out of a cracker jack box.

 

[STEEL MAN]

If they keep accepting forign degrees and transfering the credits and letting them get PE's no matter how much experience they have then US citizen engineers are going to have a tougher time getting good jobs and a good bill rate. Its hard enough to get young people to enter these fields from the US and it will be even harder competing with 3rd worlders (china and india included) who have sketchy degrees and are willing to work for 10 cents an hour or at the very least are soaking up good paying US jobs even if they are not contribuing to the wage deflation. China has massive issues with plagerism and academic dishonesty, they have not done one original thing technically in a very long time (like 1000's of years long time). India is a little better but never the less I dont want to compete with them, if there is some indian who has done some truely profound work (like nobel prize stuff) then let him in but otherwise I dont want to be competeing with some indian who got their degree out of a cracker jack box.

hmm, this topic interest me, I did have an evaluation with AACRAO, all my BSCE and MS Eng degrees are US Equivalent, that was why I was admitted FE and now passed and will soon write PE Civil.

Coming from Fareast myself, I wont accept $0.10 per hr hw can you live in North America where everthing is expensive? Minimum at least $25 per hr would be reasonable bt still underpaid for that matter. No, if thay are what you think fraud, then by all means AACRAO will figure ot, they have all the list of foreign schools including the degrees offered in that school, go to their website so that you will know. Do further research.

Good luck guys.

 

[ironman]

If they keep accepting forign degrees and transfering the credits and letting them get PE's no matter how much experience they have then US citizen engineers are going to have a tougher time getting good jobs and a good bill rate. Its hard enough to get young people to enter these fields from the US and it will be even harder competing with 3rd worlders (china and india included) who have sketchy degrees and are willing to work for 10 cents an hour or at the very least are soaking up good paying US jobs even if they are not contribuing to the wage deflation. China has massive issues with plagerism and academic dishonesty, they have not done one original thing technically in a very long time (like 1000's of years long time). India is a little better but never the less I dont want to compete with them, if there is some indian who has done some truely profound work (like nobel prize stuff) then let him in but otherwise I dont want to be competeing with some indian who got their degree out of a cracker jack box.

hmm, this topic interest me, I did have an evaluation with AACRAO, all my BSCE and MS Eng degrees are US Equivalent, that was why I was admitted FE and now passed and will soon write PE Civil.

Coming from Fareast myself, I wont accept $0.10 per hr hw can you live in North America where everthing is expensive? Minimum at least $25 per hr would be reasonable bt still underpaid for that matter. No, if thay are what you think fraud, then by all means AACRAO will figure ot, they have all the list of foreign schools including the degrees offered in that school, go to their website so that you will know. Do further research.

Good luck guys.

Even if they are qualified and everything checks out I dont want to compete with them (unless they are of VERY high value like nobel prize winner), there are not enough good paying jobs in the USA to be importing engineers and the costs of living are getting to high to have people from a thrid world (or second world) driving bill rates down.

 

[Chucktown PE]

If they keep accepting forign degrees and transfering the credits and letting them get PE's no matter how much experience they have then US citizen engineers are going to have a tougher time getting good jobs and a good bill rate. Its hard enough to get young people to enter these fields from the US and it will be even harder competing with 3rd worlders (china and india included) who have sketchy degrees and are willing to work for 10 cents an hour or at the very least are soaking up good paying US jobs even if they are not contribuing to the wage deflation. China has massive issues with plagerism and academic dishonesty, they have not done one original thing technically in a very long time (like 1000's of years long time). India is a little better but never the less I dont want to compete with them, if there is some indian who has done some truely profound work (like nobel prize stuff) then let him in but otherwise I dont want to be competeing with some indian who got their degree out of a cracker jack box.

hmm, this topic interest me, I did have an evaluation with AACRAO, all my BSCE and MS Eng degrees are US Equivalent, that was why I was admitted FE and now passed and will soon write PE Civil.

Coming from Fareast myself, I wont accept $0.10 per hr hw can you live in North America where everthing is expensive? Minimum at least $25 per hr would be reasonable bt still underpaid for that matter. No, if thay are what you think fraud, then by all means AACRAO will figure ot, they have all the list of foreign schools including the degrees offered in that school, go to their website so that you will know. Do further research.

Good luck guys.

Even if they are qualified and everything checks out I dont want to compete with them (unless they are of VERY high value like nobel prize winner), there are not enough good paying jobs in the USA to be importing engineers and the costs of living are getting to high to have people from a thrid world (or second world) driving bill rates down.

So you only want nobel prize winning engineers to come to the United States? That's very selective. Seeing as how there are only three Nobel prizes in the sciences awarded every year (Chemistry, Physics, and Medicine or Physiology), and assuming all of those Nobel prize winning engineers come to the United States, and they work for 30 years after they win their Nobel prize, that's only 90 extra engineers that we're "importing".

Most would argue that there are a shortage of engineers in practice and graduating from engineering school.

Might your fear have something to do with the fact that you're worried about having to compete with someone who knows how to form coherent thoughts and write complete sentences that are spelled and punctuated correctly?

 

[Santiagj]

Jeez... just got done reading this thread. Rpearso your grammar/spelling is getting worse. How is that possible?

 

[ironman]

If they keep accepting forign degrees and transfering the credits and letting them get PE's no matter how much experience they have then US citizen engineers are going to have a tougher time getting good jobs and a good bill rate. Its hard enough to get young people to enter these fields from the US and it will be even harder competing with 3rd worlders (china and india included) who have sketchy degrees and are willing to work for 10 cents an hour or at the very least are soaking up good paying US jobs even if they are not contribuing to the wage deflation. China has massive issues with plagerism and academic dishonesty, they have not done one original thing technically in a very long time (like 1000's of years long time). India is a little better but never the less I dont want to compete with them, if there is some indian who has done some truely profound work (like nobel prize stuff) then let him in but otherwise I dont want to be competeing with some indian who got their degree out of a cracker jack box.

hmm, this topic interest me, I did have an evaluation with AACRAO, all my BSCE and MS Eng degrees are US Equivalent, that was why I was admitted FE and now passed and will soon write PE Civil.

Coming from Fareast myself, I wont accept $0.10 per hr hw can you live in North America where everthing is expensive? Minimum at least $25 per hr would be reasonable bt still underpaid for that matter. No, if thay are what you think fraud, then by all means AACRAO will figure ot, they have all the list of foreign schools including the degrees offered in that school, go to their website so that you will know. Do further research.

Good luck guys.

Even if they are qualified and everything checks out I dont want to compete with them (unless they are of VERY high value like nobel prize winner), there are not enough good paying jobs in the USA to be importing engineers and the costs of living are getting to high to have people from a thrid world (or second world) driving bill rates down.

So you only want nobel prize winning engineers to come to the United States? That's very selective. Seeing as how there are only three Nobel prizes in the sciences awarded every year (Chemistry, Physics, and Medicine or Physiology), and assuming all of those Nobel prize winning engineers come to the United States, and they work for 30 years after they win their Nobel prize, that's only 90 extra engineers that we're "importing".

Most would argue that there are a shortage of engineers in practice and graduating from engineering school.

Might your fear have something to do with the fact that you're worried about having to compete with someone who knows how to form coherent thoughts and write complete sentences that are spelled and punctuated correctly?

I am not seeing the shortage, if there were a shortage then you would see all kinds of job openings and bill rates would be rising to attract the supposed "few" engineers out there but thats not whats really happening. You would see open positions that no one has even applied to, but thats also not happening.

My senator also said there was a shortage, however, just making that statement does not make it true, again not seeing the bill rates nor the open positions. Maybe im wrong and its just taking a few months for things to get traction and we will see all kinds of positions come open across the board in the very near future.