foreign undergraduate degree and US master

[Somerset]

You better explain this situation to WI exam board and ask them if it is okay you translate and let your university stamped it. Besides, you better check whether any form from WI need signed by your university.

It is tough, you can do it, it took me almost 1 year to get the approval from NY state. Do not give up.

P.E. is a BIG advantage for job hunting.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

You better explain this situation to WI exam board and ask them if it is okay you translate and let your university stamped it. Besides, you better check whether any form from WI need signed by your university.It is tough, you can do it, it took me almost 1 year to get the approval from NY state. Do not give up.

P.E. is a BIG advantage for job hunting.

The licensing board doesn't care how I get the documents. they basically trust NCEES decision on the evaluation.

NCEES sets the rules and reviews the documents (WI licensing board doesn't even get to see the documents, they only get the evaluation document from NCEES).

The thing is, NCEES doesn't really have a contact information to talk to before you pay the $ 400. Then they will tell you what you exactly need. My question now to anyone having experience with NCEES: doe they have specific translation requirements?

Before I pay the $ 400 again, I'd like to have certainty it will work.

 

[engineergurl]

Well, we get proposals from consultants and most of the "engineers" have never seen a college from inside.

Is that always a bad thing?

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying... I have researched it, and if I went to get an MS, there would still be no gaurentee that I could sit for any of the exams, since my BS is in a different area of study. But the way it is set up in some states, allows people who have changed professions, to become an "engineer" per say based on their knowledge and experience. I know plenty of competent engineers who have gotten a technical two year degree and worked the required years and gone on and become PE's, and plenty of others that have masters with PE's that can not produce a set of plans that I'm willing to accept for us to use. I do recommend looking into the neighboring states... it may be slightly a pain, but in the end, you may be able to achieve your goal in a more timely manner.

Also, since you are working in the engineering field, you could ask around your office regarding contact information. This was how I was able to get many of my questions answered.

 

[Paul S]

I'm not sure if going to a different state is possible without " pretending" to live there. And don't you need references from PE's from that state you apply for? I only work with PE's in WI.

Here is the list of states that require residency to take the exam NCEES Surveys. There are only a few states that you have to live in to take the exam. You may have to travel to that state to take the exam since the proctoring rules are changing.

My application was approved in PA, and I had 5 PE's as references, and they were all from different states.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Well, we get proposals from consultants and most of the "engineers" have never seen a college from inside.

Is that always a bad thing?

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying... I have researched it, and if I went to get an MS, there would still be no gaurentee that I could sit for any of the exams, since my BS is in a different area of study. But the way it is set up in some states, allows people who have changed professions, to become an "engineer" per say based on their knowledge and experience. I know plenty of competent engineers who have gotten a technical two year degree and worked the required years and gone on and become PE's, and plenty of others that have masters with PE's that can not produce a set of plans that I'm willing to accept for us to use. I do recommend looking into the neighboring states... it may be slightly a pain, but in the end, you may be able to achieve your goal in a more timely manner.

Also, since you are working in the engineering field, you could ask around your office regarding contact information. This was how I was able to get many of my questions answered.

I agree with the method of becoming a P.E. by having more years experience. Until this month, WI allowed writing the test with 8 years experience and no degree (that was my backup plan in case they don't acknowledge my German nor my US master's). but the new law doesn't allow that anymore (2-year technical college + 6 years experience or 4-year BS + 4 years experience required now).

(WI also allowed becoming a PE with BS degree + 8 years experience but no test... fortunately they got rid of that one)

I meant, many of the designers are neither P.E. nor completed college education. they always have one senior engineer for the RFP and meetings to make it look like they had qualification. but the design is done by non-engineers. At least for many consultants. there are some good ones, but those are the majority. Actually much of my work is fixing their mistakes at our expense.

At first i didn't realize that when i talked to them in design meetings adn they didn't understand some concepts. Since I'm from another country many things are different tome and are uncommon here and vice versa. but later on in my job when those designs failed exactly because they did things to the contrary of what i said, I had a closer look at their resumes from their RFPs. then I realized that they use little trick words like "electrical designer"instead of engineer. "attended UW Madison" instead of got a degree. Over time i also got to know more consultants (good and bad ones) and realized more that much of the design is done my some students. Maybe we always get the B-team of staff (I work for a local government) and in the beginning I was naive to think when we hire an engineering consultant all work would be done by engineers. At least the design. i realize some drafting etc. is done by cheaper people.

 

[engineergurl]

Well, we get proposals from consultants and most of the "engineers" have never seen a college from inside.

Is that always a bad thing?

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying... I have researched it, and if I went to get an MS, there would still be no gaurentee that I could sit for any of the exams, since my BS is in a different area of study. But the way it is set up in some states, allows people who have changed professions, to become an "engineer" per say based on their knowledge and experience. I know plenty of competent engineers who have gotten a technical two year degree and worked the required years and gone on and become PE's, and plenty of others that have masters with PE's that can not produce a set of plans that I'm willing to accept for us to use. I do recommend looking into the neighboring states... it may be slightly a pain, but in the end, you may be able to achieve your goal in a more timely manner.

Also, since you are working in the engineering field, you could ask around your office regarding contact information. This was how I was able to get many of my questions answered.

I agree with the method of becoming a P.E. by having more years experience. Until this month, WI allowed writing the test with 8 years experience and no degree (that was my backup plan in case they don't acknowledge my German nor my US master's). but the new law doesn't allow that anymore (2-year technical college + 6 years experience or 4-year BS + 4 years experience required now).

(WI also allowed becoming a PE with BS degree + 8 years experience but no test... fortunately they got rid of that one)

I meant, many of the designers are neither P.E. nor completed college education. they always have one senior engineer for the RFP and meetings to make it look like they had qualification. but the design is done by non-engineers. At least for many consultants. there are some good ones, but those are the majority. Actually much of my work is fixing their mistakes at our expense.

At first i didn't realize that when i talked to them in design meetings adn they didn't understand some concepts. Since I'm from another country many things are different tome and are uncommon here and vice versa. but later on in my job when those designs failed exactly because they did things to the contrary of what i said, I had a closer look at their resumes from their RFPs. then I realized that they use little trick words like "electrical designer"instead of engineer. "attended UW Madison" instead of got a degree. Over time i also got to know more consultants (good and bad ones) and realized more that much of the design is done my some students. Maybe we always get the B-team of staff (I work for a local government) and in the beginning I was naive to think when we hire an engineering consultant all work would be done by engineers. At least the design. i realize some drafting etc. is done by cheaper people.

hmmm, maybe this is why I reject so many plans.... if so, don't feel like you've got the B-team of staff, I work for the dod indirectly... although maybe the A-team is reserved for the pvt stuff

I do stand corrected. I'm defensive since I am approaching the engineering profession from a different avenue then traditional, and have a pretty "America, hell ya!" attitude to begin with. Although we are actually hopeful for Europe as our next duty station.

After I decided that I didn't want to do what I had gone for college for, I went back and got a two year in engineering technology, but don't really want to spend all that much more time just to get another BS... right now is not the right time to go back for my masters although i've looked into it and been accepted conditionally (one more undergrad class required) to a few schools. The way the economy is, I just want to keep working while I can.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I'm not sure if going to a different state is possible without " pretending" to live there. And don't you need references from PE's from that state you apply for? I only work with PE's in WI.

Here is the list of states that require residency to take the exam NCEES Surveys. There are only a few states that you have to live in to take the exam. You may have to travel to that state to take the exam since the proctoring rules are changing.

My application was approved in PA, and I had 5 PE's as references, and they were all from different states.

Yes i will try that if everything else fails. Minnesota allows graduate degrees in case the same school has ABET accredited bachelor's degrees. It also seems I can make the WI licensing board send them my FE test results. it also seems they only require 3 years of experience in case I have a graduate degree. Now my only question is if they mean experience BEFORE i received that graduate degree (1 week ago or only after. does anyone know if WI makes problems accepting a MN PE? I'll contact them. I really don't try to get an easy way, but Minnesota here I come! thanks for the hint. This really makes my day! i really don't care how hard the test is, but at least a fair chance, that is all I want. arty-smiley-048:

WI licensing application forms indicate there is a difference between applicants who hold a current NCEES council record and the ones who don't. I'm not sure what that means, do i automatically hold a council record when I get my license in MN? I assume the tests are all the same, right?

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Oh ,no. WI only allows PEs from certain states that hold the same standards (whatever that means) adn that have 8 years experience and must show the education documents. Now I'm back at square 1.

"Certificate of Registration: An applicant may apply for registration if he or she holds an unexpired

registration in another state in which registration requirements are not lower than those in Wisconsin. The

applicant must have passed the NCEES principles and practice examination and have 8 years of engineering

experience (education included). Applicants may apply using NCEES Council Record or by direct

application."

now i have to see what their new exact interpretation will be, sincce the new law becomes active today. :wtlw:

 

[milton7137]

I passed PE 2 yrs ago from MD. I work in PA & wanted to transfer my PE from MD to PA. PA wanted my foreign undergrade diploma evaluation. i am from a 3rd world country. it cost only $2 to get 3 copies of transcript from my university. but to send a copy to USA , cost $50. My university do not pay $50. do not send to the company in USA . what we do ? we ask someone to pickup the sealed envelop from university and post to the company who does the evaluation. during the sending procedure, we do some fake arrangement which show that the documents were sent from the university.

in your case, translate a copy of your transcript and diploma in english. and send the package to your country to your friend who will help you posting them to the right place. ask your friend to get the english documents signed by your university. or if possible, forge everything-----------------------. that is the only way to fulfill what they ask without knowing how the foreign county runs ? they just know the USA way and nothing else.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I passed PE 2 yrs ago from MD. I work in PA & wanted to transfer my PE from MD to PA. PA wanted my foreign undergrade diploma evaluation. i am from a 3rd world country. it cost only $2 to get 3 copies of transcript from my university. but to send a copy to USA , cost $50. My university do not pay $50. do not send to the company in USA . what we do ? we ask someone to pickup the sealed envelop from university and post to the company who does the evaluation. during the sending procedure, we do some fake arrangement which show that the documents were sent from the university.in your case, translate a copy of your transcript and diploma in english. and send the package to your country to your friend who will help you posting them to the right place. ask your friend to get the english documents signed by your university. or if possible, forge everything-----------------------. that is the only way to fulfill what they ask without knowing how the foreign county runs ? they just know the USA way and nothing else.

Did they provide all documents in English or is English an offical language there? I guess 3rd world countries are more likely to deal in English matters. Unfortunately (or fortunately) Germany is so strong and rich that they don't need to do things in English. hope they don't bust you now Yes they make it overly complicated that forces people to go such short cut ways. Of course I'm biased, but common sense tells me if someone has a master's degree from a reputable US university, that shows that person has the brain to get a BS degree. I also think they should widen their accepted programs. ABET is not an international thing (only one single German program listed) and they should accept engineering degrees from state schools from industrialized countries that have strong engineering programs.

I read through the ABET requirements. A university just have to show they offer a wide variety of education in their program, have advisers for students, good faculty/students ratio etc. It doesn't have much to do with scientific accomplishments.

I think if they don't require a licensed translator I can send the translations to my German university, and they stamp it and send it to NCEES. If I have to pay them mailing fee, that is fine too. After paying hundreds of $ for evaluations and fees, I think paying $ 50 for mailing is the least of my worries.

Since the new law got enacted today, the department still is working on exact rules. I'll wait what they come up with. Maybe (hopefully) they do something like Minnesota where they accept graduate degrees if the same program has an ABET accredited BS program. right now i have my EIT license application in (based on 4 years experience based on old rules) and will see how that pans out.

 

[ironman]

I passed PE 2 yrs ago from MD. I work in PA & wanted to transfer my PE from MD to PA. PA wanted my foreign undergrade diploma evaluation. i am from a 3rd world country. it cost only $2 to get 3 copies of transcript from my university. but to send a copy to USA , cost $50. My university do not pay $50. do not send to the company in USA . what we do ? we ask someone to pickup the sealed envelop from university and post to the company who does the evaluation. during the sending procedure, we do some fake arrangement which show that the documents were sent from the university.in your case, translate a copy of your transcript and diploma in english. and send the package to your country to your friend who will help you posting them to the right place. ask your friend to get the english documents signed by your university. or if possible, forge everything-----------------------. that is the only way to fulfill what they ask without knowing how the foreign county runs ? they just know the USA way and nothing else.

Did they provide all documents in English or is English an offical language there? I guess 3rd world countries are more likely to deal in English matters. Unfortunately (or fortunately) Germany is so strong and rich that they don't need to do things in English. hope they don't bust you now Yes they make it overly complicated that forces people to go such short cut ways. Of course I'm biased, but common sense tells me if someone has a master's degree from a reputable US university, that shows that person has the brain to get a BS degree. I also think they should widen their accepted programs. ABET is not an international thing (only one single German program listed) and they should accept engineering degrees from state schools from industrialized countries that have strong engineering programs.

I read through the ABET requirements. A university just have to show they offer a wide variety of education in their program, have advisers for students, good faculty/students ratio etc. It doesn't have much to do with scientific accomplishments.

I think if they don't require a licensed translator I can send the translations to my German university, and they stamp it and send it to NCEES. If I have to pay them mailing fee, that is fine too. After paying hundreds of $ for evaluations and fees, I think paying $ 50 for mailing is the least of my worries.

Since the new law got enacted today, the department still is working on exact rules. I'll wait what they come up with. Maybe (hopefully) they do something like Minnesota where they accept graduate degrees if the same program has an ABET accredited BS program. right now i have my EIT license application in (based on 4 years experience based on old rules) and will see how that pans out.

I agree I dont know why they are giving you the run around with a german degree. If you had a degree from India or china I would fully support a state not transfering your degree but germany should not be an issue.

 

[Ble_PE]

He's back!!

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I agree I dont know why they are giving you the run around with a german degree. If you had a degree from India or china I would fully support a state not transfering your degree but germany should not be an issue.

I don't know if that applies to all ChIndia schools, but the Indian elite schools easily rival MIT and Harvard.

NCEES at least could make a list with schools they accept. That ABET certification just doesn't apply to foreign schools. Edit: There is one single German program ABET certified. I'm pretty sure there are 100s of good German engineering programs. No need to exclude them all.

 

[EM_PS]

i am from a 3rd world country. during the sending procedure, we do some fake arrangement which show that the documents were sent from the university.in your case, translate a copy of your transcript and diploma in english. and send the package to your country to your friend who will help you posting them to the right place. ask your friend to get the english documents signed by your university. or if possible, forge everything-----------------------. that is the only way to fulfill what they ask without knowing how the foreign county runs ? they just know the USA way and nothing else.

Wtf?! please feel free to return to your 3rd world country anytime

 

[Somerset]

Thereis comity between ABET and other country's education program, you may check the ABET website to see if your college in the list. Good Luck!

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Thereis comity between ABET and other country's education program, you may check the ABET website to see if your college in the list. Good Luck!

I looked on the ABET website and the only German progran is this university of Karlsruhe program:

Engineering (EAC) Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering(M.Sc.)[2006] 2013-2014

or am I looking at the wrong corner? It really seems there only is one German program listed (and obviously not mine .

It seems ABET only has 15 countries listed. Germany, Mexico, India and Turkey are probably the most advanced among them. The remaining countries are Kuwait, Qatar etc. Most countries only list one program (Mexico has 3). some of them not even engineering. so this ABET staff really is tailored to the US only. Not really a help at all if you are from another country.

 

[ironman]

If they are certifying schools in mexico then someone is getting kick backs thats for sure. I have heard of india having a few decent schools but not turkey or mexico.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

If they are certifying schools in mexico then someone is getting kick backs thats for sure. I have heard of india having a few decent schools but not turkey or mexico.

I think almost every country has some good schools for the top 1% of the population. Even if they copy a foreign school. I once met a Mexican in Germany who spoke fluent German because he went to a German high school in Mexico (obviously his parents were not poor). I could imagine Mexico having some schools that copy US schools. Turkey actually has a good system for quite some people. It is not that mid evil country as the Arab countries. Just the fact that their constitution requires separation of state and church and religious symbols (including women covering their face) are outlawed in public building including schools tells you a lot. (Yes, bible belt, I'm looking at you . turkey even has a higher percentage of women in high ranking positions than Germany. although 99% Muslim population, it is very unlike Saudi Arabia. Which gives me hope...

What really makes a difference is the majority of the schools are in each country. I'm sure most schools in Germany are good, in Mexico, probably not. I guess being in between drug war, civil war and no money doesn't enhance public schools.

The US certainly has some of the best schools and many state schools are well regarded (as UW Madison graduate I have to say such tings . but in the US there also is a wide sprawl of legal degree mills that accept anyone and give anyone a degree that can pay (no pulse required). there is no protection for the world "bachelor". Those schools even qualify for financial aid. And I think those degree mills are the reason that licensing boards require accreditation.

 

[ChemORME]

It certainly sounds like a challenge to work through - not impossible - just one that will take some time!

When transferring my EIT to WI from IN, there is a special form that WI requires the transferring state to fill out (in this case IN) to "certify" the license is valid/etc.; however, IN has gone hi-tech and now you just pay $10 and get a certified electronic copy that you can e-mail to whoever you need to...but alas, WI doesn't get their special form! So - a couple of hours of phone tag and ultimately a 3-way call between the office in IN and office in WI and we were able to work out a solution (I buy the certified electronic copy, send the filled out form to the one lady who agreed to help me in IN - she would sign it, scan it and email it back to me - and I then emailed all three to one person at WI).

Moral of the story - it can be done - just may be a lot of hoops to jump through and lots of your time to do it (its you that would have to drive it!).

Any luck with the German department at UW? They may be able to help - or maybe they're worked with doctors or other professionals in the other schools at UW who are needing to work with the WI DRL (WI Dept of Regulations and Licensing) facing the same issue.

You're still chatting here - so that's a good sign - engineers always have ideas!

 

[HerrKaLeun]

It certainly sounds like a challenge to work through - not impossible - just one that will take some time!
Any luck with the German department at UW? They may be able to help - or maybe they're worked with doctors or other professionals in the other schools at UW who are needing to work with the WI DRL (WI Dept of Regulations and Licensing) facing the same issue.

You're still chatting here - so that's a good sign - engineers always have ideas!

the licensing board want to see something that says my degree is ABET or NCEES approved. Graduate school admission said they could write a letter that my German degree fullfilled the requirements of a US bachelor for their purposes. but they won't be able to say it would equal one of their ABET certified programs (since it is not up to the university to decide). so I could get something from graduate school, but nothing that will help.

I think every reasonable person (including the ones at the licensing board) would agree that someone with a German engineering degree and a Master's degree from the UW would be good enough to be considered equal to one of the bachelor's degrees listed in ABET. but they need something saying it is NCEES approved (or listed by ABET).

I'm right now awaiting the board to grant me my EIT license (they decide next week and it might take a week for me to know). I did that under the old rules using 4 years of experience. (since 5/28 they need one of those degrees for that). The only reason I even want EIT is to see if they accept my experience. and also my promotion is currently on hold since my new engineer classification spells out "must posess EIT license" and HR is not willing to give in (Having passed FE test and master's degree doesn't mean anything to them). Ironically whne it comes to doing work I'm allowed to do work from a higher classification. My backup if they don't give me the EIT license is to appeal to them, or to get the EIT license in Minnesota (since Minnesota accepts my graduate degree. So the Wisconsin licensing board does not accept a Wisconsin degree, but the Minnesota licensing board accepts a Wisconsin degree - go figure!)

I'm also planning to do another one of those evaluations and contacted my old university if they would stamp my translations and send them to NCEES. I haven't heard from them yet, but hope to get that squared away some time.

Minnesota will allow me to become PE with graduate degree and 5 years experience. I could do that next year. But in order to transfer my Minnesota license to WI, WI again requires my accredited transcripts. So this still doesn't get me a license in WI. I could move to Minnesota.... this seems to be easier