ELSES News

[RIP - VTEnviro]

The sooner they get them out, the less they have to deal with stressed out folks like us calling and emailing them.

I gotta think it's like the kid in the backseat asking "are we there yet?" for the 14th time.

 

[singlespeed]

I sent my state board (MI) an email; they forwarded to ELSES; have received two replies since.

Lea Strickland has been courteous and friendly and I believe her when she says the holdup is in the NCEES Scoring department.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

Yeah, any of the folks I dealt with at the state board or ELSES have been courteous and friendly.

The only time I got stonewalled for info was when I asked what the exam room layout was going to be, because I was trying to figure out how to best sort my references. I was told they couldn't divulge that info. But, even that was firm but professional.

 

[singlespeed]

I should clarify that not all states receive their results directly from ELSES; my comments (two posts in this topic) apply to Michigan in particular. I don't know which states receive results directly from ELSES, nor do I know if the procedure is the same for states receiving results directly from ELSES.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

I'm in VT, we hear straight from ELSES too.

 

[DrFranz]

Just called NCEES asking for a date, the lady that answered said that NCEES has not received the scores from the people that's "grading" 'em yet, so she doesn't have a date... :ruh:

 

[rleon82]

So whom is grading the Test? NCEES? ELSES?

According to Singlespeed, NCEES is the cause of the hold up.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

^ Hasn't finished receiving them? :blink:

Don't they just have to "walk them down the hall"? :thatsgay:

 

[DrFranz]

:wtf: It's unbelievable the disrespect these people have for us... they are just passing the ball from one another.

Let's all bug 'em 'til they answer something certain!! call em every 15 min at (800) 250-3196 (NCEES).

 

[EdinNO]

I agree that its disrepsectful. Maybe at least inconsiderate. I think its because we allow it. It could also contribute to the reasoning that engineers work hard, long hours, have pretty good educations, yet we don't get the salaries that I think we deserve- because we let it happen.

The bad part is that the ELSES and NCEES people are engineers as well- mostly PEs.

If I worked for any of these entities, I would certainly be the one to implement a more responsible, courteous, effective and efficient means by which to grade and distribute results.

Ed

 

[singlespeed]

I am not sure how things work between NCEES and ELSES, but it sounds like ELSES is an outside contractor to NCEES to administer the exam. I don't know the specifics of the scope of "administer". For some states, ELSES sends the results directly to the examinees.

I have to think that the responsibility for grading the exams, determining the cut scores, and deciding who passed/ failed lies with NCEES.

From what I've heard (6/9), ELSES had not received the results from NCEES (at least for Michigan).

Keep in mind, that we all have limitations in our workplace and that most folks really try to do the best they can with the resources they have and the policies they must work under. Perhaps a kind word to those people at NCEES and ELSES who really are doing their jobs the best they can is in order.

I truly believe that the comments that I've read here, that can be taken as negative with respect to NCEES and ELSES, are not directed to the "workers" so much as is directed to the policies that these organizations may have. But, they certainly could be taken "personally".

So I'll start by saying that I do appreciate the "worker bees" at these organizations!

(And please send the results - preferrably passing - as quickly as you can; my doctor is worried about my blood pressure )

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

Yeah, my gripe is not with the rank and file people there. As I said before, all the people I've spoken with have been friendly and helpful to the extent they could.

I have more of an issue with the whole process itself.

I don't get why standardized scantron forms take so long to grade. The problems are either right or wrong, it's cut and dry.

I also don't understand why the test is not computerized, as many other professional exams have become over the years. I took the GREs on the computer, it worked great. A friend of mine did his CPA exam on the computer.

There also seems to be a lot of inconsistency from year to year and state to state. If the purpose of NCEES/ELSES is to have uniform testing and licensure standards, then why does every state have a different song and dance when it comes to applications, fees, CEUs, etc.?

It just gets so frustrating after a while. :brick:

 

[EdinNO]

No one is saying that the individulas aren't doing their jobs and that their hands aren't tied.

If someone complains about oil prices and the ridiculous profits they made last year, does that mean that the lowly process engineer is a slug? No It means that the upper echelon is to blame. I'm not complaining about oil, just using it as an example.

IF the worker bees who are doing their jobs are reading these posts and getting their feelings hurt, that is not the intent. No one is blaming them. Maybe, if they are (wink, wink) reading these posts, if they have any kind of clout, they can report up the food chain how we all feel. Maybe, some good, progressive solutions can come of it all.

That would be the way I would handle it if I were fortunate enough to have that opportunity- the chance to leave the world a little better than you found it!

Ed

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

One would think that if the exam was evaluated beforehand, they could realize if it was too easy or too difficult, and adjust it accordingly to make it more like the standard exam.

They don't give raw scores anymore, but when they did, it seemed like the cut score varied considerably from test to test.

 

[EdinNO]

Its all about if/then statements and other criteria to be able to program a computer to evaluate the difficulty of the exam- regardless of the outcomes. Qualifier questions are used to compare the relative capabilities of the examinees of various administrations. When a group does well on these qualifying questions but poorly overall, the test is considered difficult and cut scores adjusted downward. This may not be exact, but is probably a simplified version of what takes place.

Anything we can deduce logically can be programmed into a computer.

The program can be written once, although it might be extensive, time consuming and costly. However, within a very short time period, it will have paid for itself by increased production and less manpower needed to administer and grade tests.

This is just a theory of mine and could be way off. But I have been involved in some programming in the past and I feel pretty confident something like this can readily be accomplished.

Ed

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

I'm sure it could be accomplished.

I took the GRE a few years back. It was computerized and adaptive.

It started with middle of the road questions. As you answered correctly, the problems got harder. If you starting getting problems wrong, they got easier.

You eventually ended up pretty much at a consistent level of difficulty pretty quickly. The weight of each question in your overall score was weighted accordingly.

 

[EdinNO]

Now that is engineering at its best! Too bad we can't have something as progressive!

Although, perhaps the ME PE test was like that and I must have been answering questions right before I even walked in the door!

 

[EdinNO]

I would guess it would take a LOT of money and a lot of political clout. It would take members of the various state boards to be on board. It would probably require petitions to state governments....

Let's go for it! : USA :

Ed

 

[civengPE]

Has anyone called ELSES or NCEES this afternoon to see if they got the scores out today?

PS. What does "ORLY" stand for?

rly:

 

[Road Guy]

google "orly" images and you find all kind of these dumb owl sayings. just one of those "dumb" internet things...

I cant bring myself to call them, I dont want to be the one "last straw" which sends one of them over the edge, burining all of our exam results and making us retest...