Do you think engineers are on the way to becoming “cheaper by the dozen”?

[Santiagj]

Brining this thread back on track. In Maryland they allow 4 different professionals to stamp site development plans which include SWM plans, Sediment and Erosion Control, Grading Plans etc.. The 4 stamps they allow are PE, PS, RLA, and Architect. I think this leads directly to the de-valueing of the engineering profession since the state is allowing 3 other professions to do the same thing. (btw I'm a structures/geotech guy not site work) I'm kind of okay with professional surveyors stamping the drawings because their professional exams are similar to what PE's go through. However, why is a landscape architect or a regular architect allowed to stamp packages for permit? How difficult are their exams? I really get upset at the landscape architects it seems that its the easiest route to get into the land development field.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

The Kentucky engineering board doesn't allow anybody except licensed engineers stamp civil plans like that. In fact, they have been cracking down on RLAs stamping plans lately. My current firm has an RLA that knows what he is doing, but all of his work gets reviewed and stamped by a civil PE before it goes out the door.

 

[MechGuy]

However, why is a landscape architect or a regular architect allowed to stamp packages for permit? How difficult are their exams?

Not sure about the landscape architect, but regular architects have pretty difficult exams to pass in order to become an RA. I think they are on par with the PE exam, or possibly even harder from what I've been told by some of my friends who are RAs.

 

[Santiagj]

However, why is a landscape architect or a regular architect allowed to stamp packages for permit? How difficult are their exams?

Not sure about the landscape architect, but regular architects have pretty difficult exams to pass in order to become an RA. I think they are on par with the PE exam, or possibly even harder from what I've been told by some of my friends who are RAs.

What topics are RAs tested on?

 

[pelaw]

What topics are RAs tested on?

I think you can research that from AIA or Board's website. RA is more difficult than PE imo. RAs must pass a multi part exam, like 6 or 7 parts. Some have to do with structures, some with esthetics, some with project management, and they can pass parts one at a time.

The good thing is that RAs don't have to labor for 4 to 100 years before being allowed to sit for exam.

 

[Santiagj]

I'm trying to find out what topics or modules they are tested on similar to how PEs are tested. I fail to see how an architect who has no educational background in hydrology or fluid dynamics is allowed to stamp a site development package in my state.

 

[pelaw]

It does not matter whether RAs are tested on engineering topics. All that matters is whether the law allows them to stamp the plans. This, you can find out about from statutes and rules pertaining to architects and engineers in your state.

 

[kevo_55]

RA's in IL have limited structural authority.

I hear that their exam is just as a bitch as the SE1 + SE2.

:2cents:

 

[MechGuy]

I'm trying to find out what topics or modules they are tested on similar to how PEs are tested. I fail to see how an architect who has no educational background in hydrology or fluid dynamics is allowed to stamp a site development package in my state.

I wasn't trying to say RAs should be allowed to stamp civil drawings. They should only be allowed to stamp their own architectural plans. I was simply commenting on your question "how hard are their exams?"

From what I hear, they're pretty rigorous. I think they have to take something like 7 different exams? Some states have even an additional exam beyond those 7.

no personal experience, just from what my RA friends have told me when comparing notes about licensure when I was taking the PE exam.

 

[EM_PS]

Brining this thread back on track. In Maryland they allow 4 different professionals to stamp site development plans which include SWM plans, Sediment and Erosion Control, Grading Plans etc.. The 4 stamps they allow are PE, PS, RLA, and Architect. I think this leads directly to the de-valueing of the engineering profession since the state is allowing 3 other professions to do the same thing. (btw I'm a structures/geotech guy not site work) I'm kind of okay with professional surveyors stamping the drawings because their professional exams are similar to what PE's go through. However, why is a landscape architect or a regular architect allowed to stamp packages for permit? How difficult are their exams? I really get upset at the landscape architects it seems that its the easiest route to get into the land development field.

In MI, the three items mentioned above would only be stamped by PE - we find more infractions of PE's trying to play PS than vice-versa.

 

[Chucktown PE]

I think trying to compare the RA exam to the PE exam is pretty pointless. Their exam covers very subjective material mentioned above (aesthetics, massing, site placement, context, different vernaculars, etc.). I don't think one is more rigorous than the other, it's apples and oranges.

 

[Dleg]

I agree. A physician's board examinations are tougher than the PE exam, I would guess, but I doubt an MD would be qualified to certify hydrologic designs and calcs. I know several architects, and I have talked to them on occasion about this very issue, and none claim any education or expertise in site drainage design.

And yes I understand that some state laws allow this, and after seeing the workings of my state's board, I am not surprised. Greedy board members selling out the engineering profession for their own business interests. Engineers should do something, but it's often tough to take a stand against the people who renew your license every year, since architects, LAs and PSs also comprise our boards. I suppose that's what the engineering societies are for. So that begs the question, what is NPSE and ASCE doing in these states where this has occurred?

 

[soobs]

Short answer to the original question is: yes.

I would say that licensed engineers still have an edge over "BS degreed engineers" in this ever commoditizing world.

Private companies can now outsource ENGINEERING to India, China or elsewhere where they can design anything for a third of a price of US engineers. Its not just customer service they are outsourcing.

If you hate lawyers, we can try to make an army of robot lawyers that only need ONE lawyer to review and sign off their work.

If you try to make robot engineers, i will have my robot-engineer-killing robot ready.

 

[ironman]

The wages that engineers get is going to go way down, save your money while you can. If engineers dont form a union and force legislation separate from ASPE then the american dream attained through engineering will not be there, engineering will be just a job to pay the bills and put a roof over your head and nothing more.