CALIFORNIA RESULTS

[benbo]

The board should be disciplined by NCEES for allowing this to continue for just the simple fact that the test is only offered 2 times a year.

Since when does NCEES have any power to discipline any state board. NCEES is made up of state boards, and each state can set their own policies. If that's the case NCEES should discipline California for requiring their own special exams.

 

[benbo]

That is what is wrong with the system in general. I think I touched on it in my first post. Why do we let the system be the way it is? No one who is taking the test likes the way it is handled. Then why do we let it happen? To who's benefit is the system set up? And if not for the benefit of the examinee, shouldn't it be? Another member said it very well, the society of engineers that we seek approval from is a fraternity. The test system is a form of hazing. We accept it because of two reasons. First, that we want the approval of our peers, and second, because we have no other recourse.

As I wrote long ago, when you have made a real effort to do something about the problem, let us all know.

Posting these long diatribes here will not -

a. Do anything to change the situation.

b. Help you pass the exam.

It has nothing to do with emotion. It is just a fact.

 

[BigChil]

As I wrote long ago, when you have made a real effort to do something about the problem, let us all know.
Posting these long diatribes here will not -

a. Do anything to change the situation.

b. Help you pass the exam.

It has nothing to do with emotion. It is just a fact.

The fact that I am addressing the issues I have with the test to this group is doing something about the problem. I have found that if the king has no clothes it is better to tell him than to let him walk around naked.

I would be fool hardy to assume that my take on the system is best take; however, that does not mean that my concerns are not shared with a multidue of other people reading my posts. As I said before, the fact that you take the time to read my "diatribes" and respond means that you have at least considered their worth. You are right of couse, none of this will help me pass the test I have already taken, but it may help me if I need to take the test again. Engineering is more than solving for loads and demands, it is the analysis of a problem and finding the best solution. Again, by doing nothing I am doing myself and anyone who would have read my post a dis-service.

 

[benbo]

The fact that I am addressing the issues I have with the test to this group is doing something about the problem. I have found that if the king has no clothes it is better to tell him than to let him walk around naked.

And who exactly, do you think is reading this that is going to do anything at all about it? Do you think the Ca board has never heard any of this before? Believe me, there are hundred of lines of complaints about this already, here and on other message boards.

One last time -

If you actually are going to make some effort, other than posting to this website, to get anything done about this, please let us know as you battle valiantly into the future. I have my doubts, but maybe you are different than the other people who complained about this and will actually do something about it. I doubt it, because you seem to have some common sense, and in the panoply of evils in the world, a few extra weeks waiting for exam results just doesn't seem like something worth expending a lot of effort on.

However, I suspect you are like most everyone else. You just want to vent about the wait. Just like I did when I took it. Fine. When I took the exam I was not at all confident, so I did continue to study some afterwards. Fortuneately I passed. Did I pursue some sort of vendetta against the board for those "wasted" hours studying? No, I looked upon it as another learning experience and moved on because it just isn't that important.

But, I'm sure, even after you pass you will be fighting this fight to the ends of the earth. Keep us updated.

 

[BigChil]

And who exactly, do you think is reading this that is going to do anything at all about it? Do you think the Ca board has never heard any of this before? Believe me, there are hundred of lines of complaints about this already, here and on other message boards.
One last time -

If you actually are going to make some effort, other than posting to this website, to get anything done about this, please let us know as you battle valiantly into the future. I have my doubts, but maybe you are different than the other people who complained about this and will actually do something about it. I doubt it, because you seem to have some common sense, and in the panoply of evils in the world, a few extra weeks waiting for exam results just doesn't seem like something worth expending a lot of effort on.

However, I suspect you are like most everyone else. You just want to vent about the wait. Just like I did when I took it. Fine. When I took the exam I was not at all confident, so I did continue to study some afterwards. Fortuneately I passed. Did I pursue some sort of vendetta against the board for those "wasted" hours studying? No, I looked upon it as another learning experinece and moved on because it just isn't that important.

But, I'm sure, even after you pass you will be fighting this fight to the ends of the earth. Keep us updated.

I have a question for you. If your opinion is that I am just blathering about the same old problems why do you keep investing yourself in the issues that I have raised? You seem to care that the system is broken. Sounds like you have your PE so why don't you do something? You don't need my perspective to analysis the problems that may exist. What is your impression of the problems and why haven't you done anything about it?

For the record the "wait" is only one of my issues. It is only the catalist for my "blathering". As I have said before the real problem is apathey not delay.

 

[BigChil]

And who exactly, do you think is reading this that is going to do anything at all about it?

I hope lots of people are reading it. Including the NCEES and the state boards. I know that NCEES monitors this site. I would love to have some of their input to the issues that I have raised. But, my audience are the engineers who take the time to think about the issues that exist and really care about a positive conclusion.

 

[benbo]

Sounds like you have your PE so why don't you do something?

Do you even read what people write before you respond? Amazing. I just wrote that while I griped about it like everyone else, I do not consider it that important.

 

[benbo]

But, my audience are the engineers who take the time to think about the issues that exist and really care about a positive conclusion.

I'll tell you now what the conclusions will be - nothing.

If I'm wrong, feel free to come on here and write 10,000 words saying so.

This is tiresome, so I'll take your suggestion and stop responding to your posts.

 

[mudpuppy]

Jack-ace--I hadn't thought of that actually. Fitting, though.

I once had a dealer tell me I was a Jack off (when I was missing the Jack from a straight).

Av was just a tribute to my upcoming Vegas trip--I'm planning on a lot of BJ.

 

[cocoloco]

Why can't someone begin studying before the results arrive? You don't need an analysis of your performance to prepare, people who pass the first time do so without any such analysis.Actually, you could be studying now.

Also, if you don't think there is enough time to prepare you can postpone the test for six months, a year, whatever. It is up to the examinee when they repeat the exam. The problem is that a lot of people, and I know many, keep taking the test without changing much about their studying hoping they will squeak by.

I agree 100%. I did get a laugh out of this one though. California is California and the process to get your PE in California is simple- either you are good enough to pass your PE exam or you are not. All those X Y Z's are not going to help you pass the exam BigChill. Study and be better prepared for it if you dont pass-be it next cycle in October or whether you increase your on X's for next April...

 

[Sschell]

I'm planning on a lot of BJ.

prostitutes?

 

[BigChil]

I agree 100%. I did get a laugh out of this one though. California is California and the process to get your PE in California is simple- either you are good enough to pass your PE exam or you are not. All those X Y Z's are not going to help you pass the exam BigChill. Study and be better prepared for it if you dont pass-be it next cycle in October or whether you increase your on X's for next April...

Someone made the point that there are plenty of people who pass the exam without any indication of what they did wrong, because they pass the test the first time. To those people I congratulate them. Clearly, the process that they used to pass the test the first time was better than my own. But, that has never been my point.

It seems that no gets what I am say. The system is the problem, not how many questions did I get wrong or right. As it is only the 15th of July I have no idea if I have passed or not. That is the problem. Why after every other state has their results do I need to wait another few days to find out if I passed or not and if I did not pass, I will have no real insight into what I did wrong so that I may learn my mistakes and correct them. I will just be able to gleam by how much I failed by which only tells me that I was close or not.

In my past postings I have pointed out both problems and solutions for the test. Both on a NCEES level and on a state level yet the only responses that I see are apathetic snippets of snide remarks with no real understanding that there is a problem. I do not hold out hope that this discussion will do much of anything to change the test process. Not that the answers are not out there, but because everyone seems to assume that this is the only way for the test to occur. We can not even talk about the engineering on the test. Doesn't that seem wrong to anybody else?

Several people have made postings in reference to what I have put out there that nothing can or will be done to make the system better, unless I make it my life's work. What a position to take. Aren't we engineers, don't we solve problems. Isn't that our calling, it is mine. I don't settle for ok when better is achievable. I submit to all that would be brave enough to support change that change maybe needed. The PE test is just one minor problem of all the problems that we face. The dependence on oil, shortages of water and food, decaying infrastructure, and environmental disasters are all problems that must be addressed in our life times if we hold out any hope for a better tomorrow for ourselves, our mates, and our children. How can we address the hard problems that really need addressing if we so easily dismiss the easy ones?

I am not looking for acceptance of my ideas; rather I am looking for an intelligent conversation about change.

 

[PEGILL]

Bigchill...i hear u.....its not the exam which you and me are complaining about...but the process how this exam is being conducted and the frustration of wait period...especially if the whole world knows weather they passed or failed and we are still having funny feelings in our stomach thinking did we passed or failed...

But where to start to do this change...do we approach the board or approach the NCEES...

 

[rjluke]

The system is the problem, not how many questions did I get wrong or right.

For real? It's fine to vent a bit, but come on.

I refer to the wisdom of a former track coach of mine. When we'd have a meet on a cold, rainy day, he became rather annoyed if anyone complained about the weather. He would always say to us, "don't stand around pissing in each other's hands". That was his way of telling us to stop whining. Everyone there had to deal with the same conditions - there was nothing unfair about it, all competitors were on an equal footing.

There's an analogy there if you choose to see it.

 

[BigChil]

For real? It's fine to vent a bit, but come on.
I refer to the wisdom of a former track coach of mine. When we'd have a meet on a cold, rainy day, he became rather annoyed if anyone complained about the weather. He would always say to us, "don't stand around pissing in each other's hands". That was his way of telling us to stop whining. Everyone there had to deal with the same conditions - there was nothing unfair about it, all competitors were on an equal footing.

There's an analogy there if you choose to see it.

I like your analogy and I think that if given a fair playing field I would agree. However, this is not a fair playing field. Each state has different rules. Some state require a 4 year wait to take the test, others, like California require us to take two additional test besides the NCEES exam, a seismic exam and surveying exam. If I were to pass the exam I could go to most other states in the union and file for receprosity and be able to practice engineering in that state. Is that fair to the engineer that is required to wait 4 years? Within my own state, I would agree that everyone has the same rules to play by.

Maybe you are right, the rules are the rules and I should just wait like eveyone else. But, I am not talking about fairness. I am talking about a system that fails to provide us with a process that works as good as it could. Fairness only relates to inequities between the examinees not the system its self.

I will give you another analogy. I pay softball in the summer. I used to also play softball in the winter. In the summer there were no rainouts in the winter there were many rainouts. Why did I stop playing softball in the winter? Because it rained and I never got to play. Why do we set up the testing system like a winter softball league?

 

[BigChil]

Bigchill...i hear u.....its not the exam which you and me are complaining about...but the process how this exam is being conducted and the frustration of wait period...especially if the whole world knows weather they passed or failed and we are still having funny feelings in our stomach thinking did we passed or failed...
But where to start to do this change...do we approach the board or approach the NCEES...

Actually, the plan I have is to pass the exam and then become a member of the people who actually can make a change. As I have seen here, people are actually afraid of change. They don't want to rock the boat when they are sitting out in the water and when they are at the shore they just don't care. I do hope, maybe overly optimisticly, that someone reads my posts that actually is in the position to make a change. If nothing else it gives us all something to think about.

 

[Sschell]

I think there are more words in this thread than the 5000 thread...

about the fair playing field thing... if you test in another state you do not get a Ca PE, if you want to practice in Ca you need the Ca PE, so it is a fair playing field. If you don't agree to this, you should also complain that each state can pick its own cutscore.

 

[TXengrChickPE]

I like your analogy and I think that if given a fair playing field I would agree. However, this is not a fair playing field. Each state has different rules. Some state require a 4 year wait to take the test, others, like California require us to take two additional test besides the NCEES exam, a seismic exam and surveying exam. If I were to pass the exam I could go to most other states in the union and file for receprosity and be able to practice engineering in that state. Is that fair to the engineer that is required to wait 4 years? Within my own state, I would agree that everyone has the same rules to play by.

I can't believe I'm getting involved in this... oh well, it's a slow day at work.

As far as I know, when you apply for reciprocity, you MUST meet all of the requirements for that state, i.e. if you took and passed the test in CA with only 2 years experience and apply for reciprocity in a state that requires 4 years, you will not qualify for reciprocity until you can prove that you have 4 years of experience. Just like if I apply for reciprocity in CA (I have my TX license), I will not qualify for a CA licence until I have passed the surveying and seismic exams.

 

[BigChil]

I can't believe I'm getting involved in this... oh well, it's a slow day at work.
As far as I know, when you apply for reciprocity, you MUST meet all of the requirements for that state, i.e. if you took and passed the test in CA with only 2 years experience and apply for reciprocity in a state that requires 4 years, you will not qualify for reciprocity until you can prove that you have 4 years of experience. Just like if I apply for reciprocity in CA (I have my TX license), I will not qualify for a CA licence until I have passed the surveying and seismic exams.

You maybe correct about the 4 year experience requirements for engineers from CA trying to get licensed in another state. I don't really know that for sure. I was under the understanding that they don't. But, in order to get a CA license you do need the other two test.

 

[MEPE2B]

You maybe correct about the 4 year experience requirements for engineers from CA trying to get licensed in another state. I don't really know that for sure. I was under the understanding that they don't. But, in order to get a CA license you do need the other two test.

The way I interpret the Georgia Board's website on this issue, it appears that if you get licensed in California with only two years experience, then you would not be eligible for comity in Georgia even if you get two more years experience after you are licensed in California. See requirement number 2 below, copied from Georgia's website:

Licensure by Comity

An applicant may qualify for certification as a Professional Engineer by comity if the applicant:

1. is currently licensed to practice professional engineering in another state, territory or possession of the United States; and

2. provides adequate evidence that, at the time the applicant was so licensed, the applicant met requirements that meet now current Georgia law; or

3. was licensed as a Professional Engineer on or prior to July 1, 1956; and

4. has made application to the Board and submitted the requisite, non-refundable, fee of $70.00 to the Board (made payable to the Secretary of State).

Maybe they would require you to retake the test in that case, to be licensed in Georgia? I don't know if other states have similar requirements.