Work Experience Prior to Graduate Degree Conferral Not Counted if Counting Graduate Degree Credit

[F1V3L]

I need you folks to tell me if I am missing something, if this makes sense to you, etc. Thinking about calling the board back and seeing if I can get more explanation but would like some opinions first.

Got an email today from the Louisiana State board saying that my application was incomplete because I did not have the prerequisite work experience. I thought to myself "surely this is a mistake, they must be forgetting to count my 1 year credit for having a Master's Degree". I sent them an email back inquiring about the details and they called me back promptly. 

My situation is thus:

I obtained an undergraduate degree in Civil in December 2011 and my EI in January 2012.

I began graduate school in January 2012. I completed my classes and thesis in December 2013. However, I had to make some revisions to my Master's thesis. So I took one credit hour in the spring 2014 to respond to comments, make edits, and resubmit. Because of this, my degree conferral date was August 2014.

I began work at an engineering firm in January 2014 and have been working here since. 

I took the PE exam early (October 2016) as allowed by Lapels.

Today on the phone, I was informed that because my graduate degree was not conferred until August 2014, I did not have 4 years of experience. I was told that they could either count my work experience only (in which case i have 3 years) or they counted my Master's degree, then I would have 1 year, plus the time beginning in September 2014. 

After I hung up, I went back to review the Board rules, and I don't see anywhere that specifically states that this is protocol. I do not understand why there has to be any relation between the time when the graduate degree was conferred and the time when the work experience was acquired. The relevant rules state:

" An applicant who has obtained a master's degree in engineering which has followed a baccalaureate degree in engineering from an EAC/ABET accredited engineering curriculum may use the master’s degree for credit for one year's experience."

" A. Only experience obtained subsequent to completion of a degree specified in the requirements for qualifying as an engineer intern will be considered as engineering experience." - However this is referring to being licensed as an EI which I accomplished in 2012 after I had obtained my undergraduate degree in 2011.

The only way I see this process making any sense is by rule:

" A. No applicant will be allowed more than one year of experience for work and education during any consecutive 12-month period" - Which only makes sense if experience acquired by a graduate degree is backdated from the time which it is conferred, i.e. it considers for my case a year of work experience from September 2013 to August 2014. But once again, that is me making an assumption and it is nowhere stated. This rule seems more likely to apply to some sort of accelerated master's program, where people are working multiple jobs, or where people are working a job and in school. However because 2 years of my program were completed while not working, I do not see why this would apply to me, except to screw me over on a technicality.

Thanks for listening.

 

[ISpitHotFire PE]

 I do not see why this would apply to me, except to screw me over on a technicality.

You can try to fight it, but if your masters wasn't technically conferred until August 2014 it will be hard to argue. The intent of the rule is so no matter what you can't earn your PE until you have 4 years of experience (3 + 1 year masters). I think you nailed what happened in the last sentence...

 

[StandardPractice]

Apply to a different state if possible and reapply to Louisiana through comity. May be a possible work around to your situation. It's either that or wait another year

 

[Maji]

Apply to a different state if possible and reapply to Louisiana through comity. May be a possible work around to your situation. It's either that or wait another year

Great idea... give Texas a try.

Good luck.

 

[F1V3L]

Thanks for the responses. I think I will call a different state board and present to them my situation and see what their response is first before emailing Louisiana again. It's tough sometimes to change peoples minds on things once they have an opinion on something. If a different state board says that I should have credit, Ill try Louisiana again with a full thorough explanation.

I also had an "aha" moment that may allow me to get my experience regardless. I was a graduate research assistant during my time in graduate school. I worked at an on campus research institute under a licensed PE part time (20 hours during the semester, 30 hours during the summer) for two years (jan 2012-dec 2013). All of my work was on Federal and State engineering research projects. I will ask them to forget about the graduate experience and accept this part time work experience. It seems as if these two years should count as 1/2 time credit as far as I can tell. I originally had labeled this work as academic research but see no reason why I cant change that count as eng exp.

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

I think that you will be wasting your time by contacting another board first. Each board has their own rules and regulations on work experience.  Your best option to to work with your state directly. If you go to them saying other states told you this and that, they may say " then go apply to one of those states" and not be willing to work with you if they feel you are just trying to be agressive or trying to get around the interpretation that they use on all of their applicants.  In terms of applying for license in another state first, that could be a possibility but it may make your license useless unless you are going to work in that other state. Although you can apply through commity, each state will still want to review your experience and make sure you have the proper experience based on their regulations. If they didn't check for this, there would be no need to have a PE in different states, they could issue a National license.

 

[smahurin]

Apply to a different state if possible and reapply to Louisiana through comity. May be a possible work around to your situation. It's either that or wait another year

This wouldn't work.  Regardless of whether you have a license in another state, in order for Louisiana to grant comity you'll still have to meet all of the states rules regarding experience.  Comity is simply "consideration" given by other states so that you don't have to accrue the experience in their state or re-take the PE.  It doesn't work like reciprocity where you would get a license simply by having a license somewhere else. Reciprocity doesn't exist.

Unfortunately I think you can fight it, but will surely lose.  It's likely that you'll just have to wait the additional time period.

 

[smahurin]

Thanks for the responses. I think I will call a different state board and present to them my situation and see what their response is first before emailing Louisiana again. It's tough sometimes to change peoples minds on things once they have an opinion on something. If a different state board says that I should have credit, Ill try Louisiana again with a full thorough explanation.

I also had an "aha" moment that may allow me to get my experience regardless. I was a graduate research assistant during my time in graduate school. I worked at an on campus research institute under a licensed PE part time (20 hours during the semester, 30 hours during the summer) for two years (jan 2012-dec 2013). All of my work was on Federal and State engineering research projects. I will ask them to forget about the graduate experience and accept this part time work experience. It seems as if these two years should count as 1/2 time credit as far as I can tell. I originally had labeled this work as academic research but see no reason why I cant change that count as eng exp.

This might work.  Most states have the provision where you can't double count experience and education, and I have had friends who worked through grad school, just not count their grad school, since you only get 1/2 time and were able to get licensed a year earlier than most because of this.

 

[StandardPractice]

Thanks for the responses. I think I will call a different state board and present to them my situation and see what their response is first before emailing Louisiana again. It's tough sometimes to change peoples minds on things once they have an opinion on something. If a different state board says that I should have credit, Ill try Louisiana again with a full thorough explanation.

I also had an "aha" moment that may allow me to get my experience regardless. I was a graduate research assistant during my time in graduate school. I worked at an on campus research institute under a licensed PE part time (20 hours during the semester, 30 hours during the summer) for two years (jan 2012-dec 2013). All of my work was on Federal and State engineering research projects. I will ask them to forget about the graduate experience and accept this part time work experience. It seems as if these two years should count as 1/2 time credit as far as I can tell. I originally had labeled this work as academic research but see no reason why I cant change that count as eng exp.

This might work.  Most states have the provision where you can't double count experience and education, and I have had friends who worked through grad school, just not count their grad school, since you only get 1/2 time and were able to get licensed a year earlier than most because of this.

Hmm that might be tough. I don't think that will work either. That equates to an internship in my eyes and at least in NC they do not accept internships as work experience only Co-OP's. I would try comity. At least you'll have a license and would be able to call yourself a PE. Don't listen to those who say it's worthless to apply to a different state. Would you rather be a PE in a different state for a year or no PE for a year?

 

[gpoli111]

I think your best bet is to apply to another state that has more lenient rules. Do it ASAP since they need to approve you and then you need to apply through NCEES by Feb 23.