Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days

[Flyer_PE]

I used to think there were some moronic SUV drivers out there when driving my little 2-seat sports car. That was until I started riding motorcycles again. There are a LOT more idiots driving all manner of vehicle than I ever noticed before. I try to think of the dumbest thing that any car near me might do and try to have an "out" just in case they do it.

 

[IlPadrino]

The rules on the highway are the same for everyone. You're supposed to signal before a lane change. You're supposed to drive in a sensible and safe fashion. An SUV doesn't give someone the right to drive like a maniac.

I was trying to humorous - but it seems I missed the mark! I think the driving experience would improve greatly if everyone added this rule to the top: be considerate of others. For example, it annoys me to no end when there's a clear need to merge two lanes and the right-of-way lane refuses to let traffic "zipper" in. Or on the other hand, when a line starts queuing up for an exit and some *** clown motors along until the very last moment (and crosses a solid line to do it!) to cut into the queue.

 

[TouchDown]

and some *** clown motors along until the very last moment (and crosses a solid line to do it!) to cut into the queue.

Big annoyance on my part for people who either aren't paying attention and miss getting in line, then inch their way up to the front of the line and FORCE their way into traffic. My wife always tries to excuse people who are inconsiderate with this statement, "maybe they know someone is really sick and they are trying to get them to a dr., or maybe there is a traffic accident going to happen and by them cutting in... you just avoided it."

I wasn't listening to that kind of voice the other day when someone tried to force into line through me... I held my ground attempting to make them yield and they never did... We were going through an intersection where there had been an auto accident and a traffic cop was guiding traffic. There were only 2 lanes turning, and this "*** clown" as you called it, wouldn't give and tried to make a 3rd turn lane in effect about running over the traffic cop. She was UBER pissed at this guy and made him pull over.

Not sure I did the right thing in not letting the person in... but he obviously thought he was invincible and his time was more important then everyone else.

PS - he was in a Hummer and I was in an older small Nissan Altima.

 

[csb]

Big annoyance on my part for people who either aren't paying attention and miss getting in line, then inch their way up to the front of the line and FORCE their way into traffic. My wife always tries to excuse people who are inconsiderate with this statement, "maybe they know someone is really sick and they are trying to get them to a dr., or maybe there is a traffic accident going to happen and by them cutting in... you just avoided it."
I wasn't listening to that kind of voice the other day when someone tried to force into line through me... I held my ground attempting to make them yield and they never did... We were going through an intersection where there had been an auto accident and a traffic cop was guiding traffic. There were only 2 lanes turning, and this "*** clown" as you called it, wouldn't give and tried to make a 3rd turn lane in effect about running over the traffic cop. She was UBER pissed at this guy and made him pull over.

Not sure I did the right thing in not letting the person in... but he obviously thought he was invincible and his time was more important then everyone else.

PS - he was in a Hummer and I was in an older small Nissan Altima.

I never let those guys in either. Once I was in LA and we were trying to get around an accident in typical LA snarled traffic and a guy zipped up and I had just said, "*******," when the traffic cop screams at the guy, "PULL OVER, PULL OVER!" Then, all clearly heard through our closed windows, this big burly cop tells off the guy and can he not see the accident in front of him and where does he need to be and on and on and the guy with his family in the car looked like he wanted to disappear...not at all like he was trying to see a sick family member. The accident was awful...blood everywhere and I'm pretty sure the cop was livid about it all.

 

[IlPadrino]

I held my ground attempting to make them yield and they never did...

I think this is the modern-day urban equivalent of playing chicken...

So what's your tolerance level? How far back does someone need to start merging before they're inconsiderate?

 

[MA_PE]

I think this is the modern-day urban equivalent of playing chicken...
So what's your tolerance level? How far back does someone need to start merging before they're inconsiderate?

I'm a believer in that as soon as you recognize the situation, that the line of cars is all going where you want to go, you should get in the line. However, due the above mentioned "clowns" that will constantly go up to the front, I can't always say I do the right thing. Often the folks who "do the right thing" get screwed and never move becasue the "clowns" keep cutting the line.

Thus, I'm forced to put on my rubber nose and join the circus.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

*******>>clown

Just saying...

 

[TouchDown]

As far as how far back to the point of being considerate? Maybe slowing down and turning on a blinker at or near the end of the line?

When the line is 30+ cars long and a car blazes by the entire line and then noses his way into the line 3-4 cars back from the start of the line. That's pretty inconsiderate and just being an *******.

Again, I think it's a good choice to let people merge and I often do if they seem to be making an effort to merge. It's the people who attempt to drive over others where I think it's wrong. As far as chicken... My thought at the time in my situation was that I had the right of way - the person in question needs to yield and we're 50' from an accident scene filled with cops. If this moron wants to run over me, in a hummer, I'll be happy to oblige in giving the cops all my contact information. At most it would have been a fender bender, it wasn't like he tried to merge going full speed.

 

[EM_PS]

I wanna weigh in on the hybrid thread -

I had an 05 3/4 ton crewcab Silverado w/ duramax diesel - oh yeah baby, 300 horsies, something like 600 lb-ft of torque, weighing 6600 lbs, and it got 19 - 20 mpg as a commuter truck. We have a double axle 23 foot travel trailer, about 5500 lbs, which i use to pull w/ a v-6 Tacoma :mellow: We got the chevy intending on getting a bigger 5th wheel eventually, but clearly, today's economy necessitated a change. Now i have a trailer for sale or rent, (rooms for let 0.50 cent, no phone, no pool, no pets, I ain't got no cigarettes) . . .

Somehow, my wife convinced a toyota dealer to take the truck in w/ a fair bluebook trade-in, and now she's rolling in a Camry hybrid. I guess car lots now are discretionary on whether they'll take uber-large SUV's in on trades anymore. The camry gets in the low 30's on a bad day. I like it a lot, cuz its not like the Prius, or civic hybrids (not as much tree-huggin' warm-fuzzy vibes). Like the Explorer hybrid, its simply a Camry w/ the hybrid badges (and obv. the hybrid mechanics) - the technology in these is as old-school as it gets. . . electric motors, battery packs. . . not a whole lot to go wrong - its wonderfully engineered however, w/ the cut-in / cut-out of the 4-cylinder engine, and the hi-torque output of the electric motor itself.

Admittedly, the GLC's, Rabbits, Civics, Chevettes, Fiestas, Colts, Datsun 310's, Corollas, etc. back in the day were knocking down that kind of economy while able to be repaired by the contents in a typ. kitchen 'junk' drawer. Times change, gas got real cheap again in the 90's, and all the US wanted was big & powerful, pretty much just like the 60's into early 70's - it doesn't take "hybrid" technology to get back to sensible efficient vehicles, and it sure doesn't even take diesel, though the efficiency of a diesel's cycle is hard to beat. We really just need to slow down a little, lose some weight (vehicles, but wouldn't hurt typ american), and not associate manhood or place in this world w/ number of ponies under the hood.

My whip is the family-funster minivan, knocking down in the mid-20's mpg. We're not gonna go with out the convenience & road-tripability of a minivan for our budding family, so i can live with that as being the least efficient of our family fleet. Maybe Honda will pop a little 4 cyl. diesel in their Odyssey platform sometime.(?)

Even though a fellow student pronounced that i had officially lost my 'man-tag' I think i'm ok w/ all that. . .. anyone wanna buy a trailer?

 

[squishles10]

2-seater :bananalama:

But seriously, when I went to the new car which takes premium, I did the math and it gets nearly 12 mpg better than the SUV I had before. Even with the extra cost of premium gas, I make up the difference EASILY. Also, with only 2 seats, I never have to drive people around! It's also a manual, so I can control how good or bad my mileage, depending on my mood. B)

I have no idea what my next car will be. I'd like to think a hybrid, but the environmental impacts of those things aren't much better than just using the gas, so I'm probably just going to find another car that gets 30 mpg or better that is NOT a hybrid.

 

[Guest]

My position is drive whatever you like as long as you are okay with how much it costs because in the final analysis the depletion of petroleum resources and the taxing effect it will have on the average person's paycheck is what will drive innovation and conservation. Those resources are finite - so whether they are depleted in ten yrs or fifty yrs ... the scale of econmy drives the options for addressing fuel shortage/economy. It certainly isn't our desire for environmental stewardship or being good neighbors ...

:2cents:

JR

 

[EM_PS]

Those resources are finite - so whether they are depleted in ten yrs or fifty yrs ... the scale of econmy drives the options for addressing fuel shortage/economy. It certainly isn't our desire for environmental stewardship or being good neighbors ...

What what!? My unborn grandbabies won't have the bona fide God-given right :unitedstates: due every American to drive an H1 Hummer!?? Say it ain't so. . .

 

[IlPadrino]

I'm a believer in that as soon as you recognize the situation, that the line of cars is all going where you want to go, you should get in the line. However, due the above mentioned "clowns" that will constantly go up to the front, I can't always say I do the right thing. Often the folks who "do the right thing" get screwed and never move becasue the "clowns" keep cutting the line.
Thus, I'm forced to put on my rubber nose and join the circus.

At my last job I got into the bad habit of often singing out loud "dat, da, dadd-la, dat, dat, da da" (or however you sing that circus tune). Until one day when asked by one of my subordinates if I was singing it because we were in a "circus". I blurted out (without so much as a second thought) "no, I'm singing it because you all are a bunch of clowns!" I was only half-joking so felt pretty bad.

 

[squishles10]

At my last job I got into the bad habit of often singing out loud "dat, da, dadd-la, dat, dat, da da" (or however you sing that circus tune). Until one day when asked by one of my subordinates if I was singing it because we were in a "circus". I blurted out (without so much as a second thought) "no, I'm singing it because you all are a bunch of clowns!" I was only half-joking so felt pretty bad.

:laugh:

 

[Capt Worley PE]

At my last job I got into the bad habit of often singing out loud "dat, da, dadd-la, dat, dat, da da" (or however you sing that circus tune). Until one day when asked by one of my subordinates if I was singing it because we were in a "circus". I blurted out (without so much as a second thought) "no, I'm singing it because you all are a bunch of clowns!" I was only half-joking so felt pretty bad.

A buddy of mine and I used to do that during meetings back in the 90s. Management never caught a clue as to why we were doing it.

 

[Guest]

That's classic! :laugh:

I think most everyone has come to expect snarky, caddy, sardonic comments from me so my comments have a less effect on the casual listener these days.

JR

 

[EM_PS]

At my last job I got into the bad habit of often singing out loud "dat, da, dadd-la, dat, dat, da da" (or however you sing that circus tune). Until one day when asked by one of my subordinates if I was singing it because we were in a "circus". I blurted out (without so much as a second thought) "no, I'm singing it because you all are a bunch of clowns!" I was only half-joking so felt pretty bad.

To break out in Three Stooges speak is always another fun one to use - (when working w/ idiots)

Don't know if any of you listen to sports radio - Last year on Espn radio, Colin Cowherd who does 'The Herd' talk show was big time recommending Steve Nash (phoenix Suns) as the NBA most valuable player. And for any listener who would call in to argue w/ him about, he'd play the dat-dat-da-dadda-dat-da-da. . . .clown music sray mentions above. It was hilarious, as the callers would get animated all the more when the clown music would break out - one guy called in just to say "yeah Steve Nash is overrated" and when Colin started the clown music, he says 'I'm just kidding, I just wanted to hear you play the clown music again.' Long live the clown music, long live the Stooges!

:lmao:

 

[C-Dog]

On a somewhat related topic, I just go a new ride...

Add some fenders, a rear rack, head and tail lights, some additional reflectors, and a Superman 'S' and that's my ride!

 

[ME_FPE]

I didn't read all of this thread, so I hope I'm not repeating something someone else said but I think there's two principal reasons why it takes a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days:

1. Increased number of standard accessories that consume engine power

25 years ago, air conditioning in a car was considered a luxury. The compressor in an automotive HVAC system consumes about 5% of the total bhp a car engine produces. I don't have an exact figure on this, but I know that alternators have had to grown appreciably in the past 25 years as well--to power DVD players, GPS navigation systems, extravagant stereo systems, MP3 players, heated seats, electric windows and locks, etc.--accessories that weren't standard or did not exist 25 years ago.

2. Increasingly Stringent Emission regulations

If one examines the average power of vehicles between the mid and late 70s, one will notice a rather sharp decline in engine output. Part of this is due to the effects of the 70s OPEC crisis, but it was also due to the phasing out of tetra-ethyl lead as an antiknock agent. Lead was phased out as an anti-knock agent because of its incompatibility with catalytic converters and because of the emerging health concerns of lead. The average compression ratio of automobile internal combustion engines experienced a sharp decline thereafter. I don't think any of the lead substitutes have ever been as effective as tetra-ethyl lead as an antiknock agent. This is just one example of how environmental regulations lead to decreased engine power and efficiency, which is somewhat ironic. With the plethora of restrictions placed upon automotive engineers, it must be difficult to design efficient engines.

 

[Dleg]

^I disagree with your take on environmental controls. Many of the fuel-efficient cars we were discussing were 1980s vehicles that were running on unleaded fuel. Case in point, my family's 1980 Mazda GLC. It was able to get around 35 mpg in the city, and 45 mpg on the highway. True, it did not have airconditioning. But, it did have a catalytic converter and many of the other environmental systems that today's cars have, and was able to pass the stringent Colorado and then California air emissions tests all the way until the early 1990s, when I finally got rid of it.

Now, perhaps some of the newer control requirements cause additional performance hits, but I doubt they're significant enough to counterbalance the other factors that have led to low mpg vehicles in "modern times," such as power-hungry accessories, unnecessarily powerful engines, and heavy vehicle weights.

You should be thankful for the environmental controls that came into play after the 1970s. The Clean Air Act is possibly the most successful environmental law ever. When I was a kid in Denver in the late 1970s, there were several days a year when the smog was so bad, you couldn't see a mile. By the early 1980s, days like that didn't happen anymore (I don't know about the last 15+ years because I've been gone, and the place has grown dramatically). And lead - no one should have to argue why it was good to get the lead out of gas. Not if you have kids, anyway.