Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days

[chaosiscash]

I'm a fan of nuclear power. We should be building new reactors, of newer and safer design than what are operating today. Give us pebble-bed reactors and other technology for safe nuclear power! Nukes can generate electricity for electric cars, or to crack water for hydrogen fuel. It has more pros than cons, IMO.

Heck yeah! Bring on the new nuke power plants, and let build a breeder reactor while we're at it. We'd have one if it weren't for Carter. New plants are starting to happen, Watts Bar plant here in TN is starting the design required to upgrade and start the unit that they mothballed years ago after TMI. They expect construction to begin later this year. I think that between the aging workforce and the resurgance of nuke power, its going to be a good time to be in the business.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I like diesels...Europe has really brought diesels a long way. VW's TDI engine is pretty spiffy. I have two friends with TDI Jettas who have been very pleased. They don't smell and the mileage is very nice.

I liked deisel, too. Unfortunately, the new low sulfur diesel is more expensive than gasoline; about a buck more expensive around here. Kinda kills the mileage advantage, financially.

We need mor lightweight, low hp, fun to drive cars. The 86-87 Civic and CRX Si's were a riot and got close to 40mpg.

 

[Guest]

Heck yeah! Bring on the new nuke power plants, and let build a breeder reactor while we're at it. We'd have one if it weren't for Carter. New plants are starting to happen, Watts Bar plant here in TN is starting the design required to upgrade and start the unit that they mothballed years ago after TMI. They expect construction to begin later this year. I think that between the aging workforce and the resurgance of nuke power, its going to be a good time to be in the business.

I completely agree as well!

The current governor of Florida (Charlie Crist) has outlined a plan for cutting greenhouse gases that essentially makes the submittal of any new fossil-fuel burning plant DOA.

There are plans right now for new nuclear units in Homestead as well as Crystal River. They are working thier way through NRC as well as the state's power plant siting requirements.

JR

 

[C-Dog]

It does not take a hybrid to get high highway milage, only in the city do they really pay off. It takes a small engine to get high highway milage. Think about it, on the highway you only use ~1/2 of the engines rated power to cruise. My 90 HP, diesel VW averages 45 mpg. When I drive on long trips (all highway) I can average 55 mpg.

BTW, oil to $225 by 2012 acording to Fox News this AM.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

BTW, oil to $225 by 2012 acording to Fox News this AM.

I would take any prediction made by the media with a huge grain of salt. As a matter of fact, usually the opposite comes true, so I'm more likely to believe 10 dollar oil again by 2012.

 

[C-Dog]

I would take any prediction made by the media with a huge grain of salt. As a matter of fact, usually the opposite comes true, so I'm more likely to believe 10 dollar oil again by 2012.

I would too, but a couple of years back ('05ish) a Citigroup economist said oil would be at $125 by 2010. Where are we at 2008? $120. Moody's is predicting $300 oil by 2020.

Here is the story, http://finance.yahoo.com/video/time (Crude $225 a Barrel by 2012) scroll down to find it. Sorry, it was on CNBC.

 

[Chucktown PE]

If I were to offer my two cents on anything I would say that we should trust the free market to supply us with alternatives. It has never let us down in the past. My concern is that we have too much government BS in the way to allow the free market to do this effectively. Look at the expense ethanol has created. Due to government subsidies paid to corn producers we are not only paying more at the pump but we are paying more at the supermarket as well. Do keep in mind that it takes more than a gallon of fossil fuels to produce a gallon of ethanol. It takes 131,000 BTUs to produce one gallon of ethanol. Ethanol only has an energy value of 77,000 BTUs. Also keep in mind that it would take 11 acres of corn to produce the ethanol needed to drive one average car for one year in the US. That is enough land to grow a years worth of food for 7 people. This isn't even considering the environmental damage done by fertilizers, pesticides, and the enormous amount of water it takes to grow corn.

The idea that oil companies are "hoarding profits" and "goughing consumers" is absolutely ridiculous. High prices will do what high prices are supposed to do and that is spur producers to bring more goods to the market or create a substitute. We often forget that the reason we aren't all riding around in horses and buggies is because the free market created planes, trains, and automobiles. Orville and Wilbur weren't waiting on a check from Uncle Sam so that they could build an airplane, they were just a couple of bicycle mechanics that had a crazy idea.

Someone, somewhere will create a car in the near future that will get better gas mileage and it won't be because the Imperial Federal Government sets a mandatory fuel economy standard. It will be because producers can't sell cars that cost $2000 a month to gas up.

And ditto on the nuclear power comments, again we have the Imperial Federal Government sticking its nose in to something it has no business regulating. If the free market had been allowed to supply nuclear power over the past 20 years we might not be having this conversation.....discussion........forum......whatever the hell it is. Hallelujah. Holy shit. Wheres the Tylenol?

 

[C-Dog]

I liked deisel, too. Unfortunately, the new low sulfur diesel is more expensive than gasoline; about a buck more expensive around here. Kinda kills the mileage advantage, financially.
We need mor lightweight, low hp, fun to drive cars. The 86-87 Civic and CRX Si's were a riot and got close to 40mpg.

How so? Let's compare apples to apples...

I just paid $4.29 a gallon for diesel for my Jetta and average 45 mpg. A gas Jetta gets a under 35 mpg max on the highway, not combined, but we will use 35 mpg to be conservitive..

So for my 15 gallons it cost me $64.35, but I can travel 675 miles.

For the gasser, it will cost $3.75 a gallon or $56.25 a tank and at best they will get 525 miles. In order to go the additional 150 miles, we have to by an additional 4.3 gallons of gas, which will cost us $16.07, add that to $56.25 and we get a total cost of $72.32 to go 675 miles vs. $64.35 for the diesel - and that is being generous with the fuel milage for the gas model.

BTW, the CRX's were awsome!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

My 89 Civic Si got 38 mpg, so diesel would cost more in that scenario. I was talking about vs a car like that...sorry. My next car (probably a Yaris LB) will get about the same.

And yeah, I know it isn't a Jetta competitor.

A 70mpg diesel Yaris would be cool, though!

I think I'm one of the few people in the US who prefers small cars.

 

[C-Dog]

I think I'm one of the few people in the US who prefers small cars.

I am right there with ya! They are a fun to drive!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Aside from a Ranger pickup I had for four years, my daily driver has been a four cylinder 4 or 5 speed since 1984.

Biggest engine of those is the current Sentra at 1.8 liters.

 

[TouchDown]

That's hard to wrap your head around:

Biggest Engine... Sentra

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Ponder this: Smallest engine, Honda Civic 1200. 57 raw, unbridled hp.

Favorite car: 89 Civic Si, 1600cc's, 106 hp. This was the perfect car. If I could buy one new, I would. Closest thing today is a Yaris liftback, which is, surprisingly, about the same amount of cash I paid for the Si back in '89 ($11K)

 

[Guest]

I think I'm one of the few people in the US who prefers small cars.

I actually prefer small cars as well! I am currently (don't laugh) driving a Kia Spectra. You don't want to know why I am driving a Kia ... <_< I plan to remedy with a decent smaller-sized car at my earliest convenience.

Favorite car: 89 Civic Si, 1600cc's, 106 hp. This was the perfect car. If I could buy one new, I would. Closest thing today is a Yaris liftback, which is, surprisingly, about the same amount of cash I paid for the Si back in '89 ($11K)

What is wrong with the current version of the Civic?? One of my colleagues just bought a new one and it seems pretty nice. I will say though that he isn't getting the touted 40 MPG rather something on the order of 35 MPG on the open road and 28 MPG in the city. He is doing better than the young lady in my office that bought a Mitsubishi Spyder! :mellow:

I had never heard of the Yaris until you mentioned it in your post. What are the positive benefits in your humble opinion? How about factor of safety?

JR

 

[benbo]

What are the positive benefits in your humble opinion? How about factor of safety?
JR

I'm cracking up because I think this is the first time I've heard somebody tell someone else that they have a "humble opinion."

It just sounds funny to me.

:laugh:

Sounds like something I would do.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I actually prefer small cars as well! I am currently (don't laugh) driving a Kia Spectra. You don't want to know why I am driving a Kia ... <_< I plan to remedy with a decent smaller-sized car at my earliest convenience.

I like the Spectra5, but not so much the four door. I'm a hatch guy.

What is wrong with the current version of the Civic?? One of my colleagues just bought a new one and it seems pretty nice. I will say though that he isn't getting the touted 40 MPG rather something on the order of 35 MPG on the open road and 28 MPG in the city. He is doing better than the young lady in my office that bought a Mitsubishi Spyder! :mellow:

I'd love the Civic if they'd bought over the hatchback they sell in Europe. I'm not a big fan of sedans. Not nearly as useful. The only reason I have the Sentra is I needed something quickly, and cheap, and that's all I could find/afford at the time.

I had never heard of the Yaris until you mentioned it in your post. What are the positive benefits in your humble opinion? How about factor of safety?

I like the hatchback. It has Toyota reliabily, is cheap, mirrors quite closely the specs of my old Si, and the dealer is within walking distance of me. Safety...just like any other small car, I guess.

 

[Katiebug]

I like the hatchback. It has Toyota reliabily, is cheap, mirrors quite closely the specs of my old Si, and the dealer is within walking distance of me. Safety...just like any other small car, I guess.

I love my New Beetle, it's a blast to drive - but I do worry about what would happen to me if I was t-boned by one of those idiots in a gargantuan SUV. Few things anger me more than a soccer mom attempting to maneuver her Navigator through traffic like she's driving in a NASCAR race. Particularly when she's talking on a cell phone and ignoring road conditions and doesn't give a damn about anyone around her. SUV (and minivan) drivers often seem to have the attitude of, "I'm bigger than you, so get the heck out of my way." It scares me, because I know in a collision with the soccer mom in the Navigator, my little Bug won't provide much in the way of protection.

In the next few years, I'm going to need a 4-door (I suspect childrens' car seats won't work out so well in the Bug). Assuming I keep the same job in the long run, my commute is all in-town driving - so a hybrid has the potential to be a good choice.

If we could get our power generation back to nuclear (with hydroelectric, solar, wind, etc. in addition) it would substantially reduce our dependence on oil. That is going to be key. Other developed countries have the bulk of their power infrastructure based on non-fossil fuel sources. It's disgusting how new nuke plant construction has been held back over the last few decades. While the US generates the most nuclear power worldwide, France has the highest percentage of power needs generated by nuclear power (on the order of 80%). We need to get to that level or we will be facing severe energy shortages. It's a mistake to keep our power system based on fossil fuels. The UK is already building new reactors in anticipation of oil becoming more and more expensive.

With the exception of Chernobyl and a number of Soviet naval reactor "incidents", nuclear power is extremely safe when plants are properly designed and operated. There's the issue of what to do with the spent fuel, but I'd rather work on that problem than try to come up with alternatives to fossil fuels when there are shortages and we're under the gun.

People seem to think I'm some sort of nutcase when I advocate nuclear (and other non-fossil fuel based) power. I don't see many alternatives to that direction, though...

 

[Capt Worley PE]

It IS almost impossible to beat the energy density of nuclear fuel. I'm hoping both breeders and fusin reactors will be up and running within the next 50 years.

 

[IlPadrino]

SUV (and minivan) drivers often seem to have the attitude of, "I'm bigger than you, so get the heck out of my way." It scares me, because I know in a collision with the soccer mom in the Navigator, my little Bug won't provide much in the way of protection.

What? You've never heard of the "Law of Gross Tonnage"? It works on water... something about Newtonian Physics.

 

[Katiebug]

What? You've never heard of the "Law of Gross Tonnage"? It works on water... something about Newtonian Physics.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. The heavier vessel always has the right of way. However, the last time I checked, the Rules of the Road don't apply on the highway.

I just wish that people would have some degree of courtesy for others on the highway. Someone sliding into my lane (without using the signal) in a fashion that forces me to either slam on the brakes or floor the gas in order to avoid a collision puts me in a bad mood. When that someone is in a vehicle that's substantially larger and heavier than mine, it makes me even grumpier. Yeah, I get that the soccer mom's SUV takes longer to stop and is less maneuverable, but I shouldn't have to engage in evasive maneuvers because she's driving like a nutcase.

The rules on the highway are the same for everyone. You're supposed to signal before a lane change. You're supposed to drive in a sensible and safe fashion. An SUV doesn't give someone the right to drive like a maniac.