Structural II Exam/ Licensure

[ARLORD]

PE vs SE after name :
If a person passed SE II, can he writes S.E. after his name irrespective of state ? My assumption is the state should have structural engieering title act rules enfrorced.

that means a person in AZ can write SE and one in KC can't write?

I would appreciate if some one can confirm.

These rules are hard to inforce, and may vary from state to state. With that said, here is my take:

I think with the PE license, you can't use your cards or use the PE title in a state where you are not registered as a PE, but every state has PE rules and regulations. It should be similar with the SE in states that recognize the SE license.

However not every state has SE rules and regulations. So a state that has SE registration can dictate when you can and can't use the SE title. But how can a state that doesn't have any rules regarding SE dictate when to use it. It doesn't exist in that state. Legally, you are not violating any rules because there are no rule to violate.

 

[Greg C]

PE vs SE after name :
If a person passed SE II, can he writes S.E. after his name irrespective of state ? My assumption is the state should have structural engieering title act rules enfrorced.

that means a person in AZ can write SE and one in KC can't write?

I would appreciate if some one can confirm.

To answer your first question...NO....Not really sure why it makes a difference but... Most states right now you are a P.E. There are some states, IL, CA and a few others which you can become an S.E. You should not be writing S.E. after you name or on your business card unless you are registered in one of those states. If you have P.E. next to your name you do have to be registered as P.E. in the state which is on the card, ie the address. If I am not registered in NY but hand out my business card with P.E. next to it and my current address is on the card I am ok but If there is no address on the card then the assumption is that I am registered in NY which would be false and against the law.

The problem is that even if you are not registered in the state they can take action against you which you then have to report to other states when you go to renew your licences. This could be a problem.

I know some people in IL are only S.E.'s because they never got a P.E. in another state so they would only have S.E. next to their name. I have P.E.'s in a few states and an S.E. in IL so I have both on my card. CA and NV you have to be a Civil P.E. before you can become an S.E. you people would have both on their cards.

I half think what the states what are a listing on your business card the states where you are licenced to make it clear.

 

[McEngr]

See below for the latest on the new Structural Exam(s) format:


The committee in charge of the new specification will be meeting in January to review the results of the recently completed Professional Activities and Knowledge survey and based on those results will develop the examination specification. We will release further information in the spring regarding the specification and how the exam will be administered. The impact, if any, on states that have a STRIII exam has not yet been evaluated. The Council approved the change in the structural exam to be effective starting with the spring 2011 exam administration.

Regards,

Tim Miller, P.E.

NCEES - Director of Exam Services

Is this the same Tim Miller that is principal of Miller Consulting Engineers in Portland, OR? Just curious if anyone knows.

 

[ARLORD]

Is this the same Tim Miller that is principal of Miller Consulting Engineers in Portland, OR? Just curious if anyone knows.

I don't think so. This TM works for NCEES which is in North Carolina and he is a PE. I would assume your TM is an SE?

 

[ARLORD]

See the folllowing link for the new 16 hour SE exams:

http://www.ncees.org/news/index.php?release_id=47

 

[kevo_55]

Like I said before, get that SE II done if you think that you'll need it later down the road.

SE licensure is a pain to get, but well worth the investment.

 

[Shaker-PE]

Does anyone know how this may effect the western states SE3 or the CA seismic/survey test?

 

[ARLORD]

Based on the ncees web site, it looks like the western states were involved in the new exam specs and should adopt the two day exam. The lateral afternoon session includes seismic design cat > D.

 

[AL2GA-Eng]

Help me out here!

I just passed the SE I exam. Lets say I apply for comity in the states I'm pretty sure I'm going to be working for the rest of my professional life before 2011. When the new exam comes out in April 2011, would I have to take that exam to keep my registration in every state I'm already registered?

Basically, my question is this: Will the state take away my registration after April 2011, having worked for 2 years as a PE, if I don't have the SE II or take the new exam?

Sorry if it seems like a stupid question, but I've only been a PE for about 24 hours!!!

 

[kevo_55]

^^ No if you are currently a PE in a state and suddenly they enforce a "structural" exam you will be able to keep your PE.

If your state enacts some sort o SE provision, just about anything can happen. I would think that you may be grandfathered in, but then again it could go the other way as well.

 

[McEngr]

^^ No if you are currently a PE in a state and suddenly they enforce a "structural" exam you will be able to keep your PE.
If your state enacts some sort o SE provision, just about anything can happen. I would think that you may be grandfathered in, but then again it could go the other way as well.

Kevo is right.

In Oregon, I know a lot of guys that claim to be SE's, but they've only passed one SE exam, which was an 8 hour exam after they took the civil PE. It seems that that exam was easier than the process now. The unfortunate thing is that the midwest may start to follow what Illinois has done.

 

[McEngr]

Kevo is right.
In Oregon, I know a lot of guys that claim to be SE's, but they've only passed one SE exam, which was an 8 hour exam after they took the civil PE. It seems that that exam was easier than the process now. The unfortunate thing is that the midwest may start to follow what Illinois has done.

I should also note that these Oregon SE's can't claim their SE-ship in Washington or California unless they went through the same process of grandfathering with those respective states.

 

[THUDore]

[SIZE=12pt]In my humble opinion, the idea of a 16 hour structural exam is the dumbest crap.[/SIZE]

We need to a T party to boycott this stupid thing.

Why do they single out structural engineers for this more difficult exam?

Do structural engineers make more money?

- NO.

So is it fair to make structural engineers live more difficult?

 

[knelli]

This is what I received from NCEES regarding the SI, SII and SIII:

I have passed the PE and the Structural I exams and am planning on taking the Structural II Exam. If I do not pass the S2 before 2011 will I have to take and pass both parts of the 16 hr new-format Structural Engineering Exam? Or will I be able to take just the Lateral Forces exam in order to be registered in most states? Will California and Washington still require the Structural III exam?

Thank you for your time,

These are excellent questions. See below.

? The new structural exam is not designed to work in conjunction with the existing exams. Therefore, if you do not pass STR II before 2011, you would need to pass both parts of the new exam to cover current STR II exam requirements.

? Regarding the current third exam of CA and WA, the new exam will incorporate the needed elements to replace this third exam. Discussions indicate that these states are planning to drop their third exam and to allow the new exam to take its place.

I trust this helps. Please feel free to email me again or call if you have further questions.

Bruce G. Martin, P.E.

NCEES - Exam Development Engineer

800-250-3196, ext. 5475

864-654-6033 (fax)

[email protected]

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 3:30 PM

To: Bruce Martin

Subject: NCEES Feedback Form

Sender Information:

WI

________________________________________

Comments:

I

 

[kevo_55]

knelli:

Direct from the WA board: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/engineersla...ucturalExam.pdf

The fates of SE's everywhere will change with this new exam. Here's hoping that I can pass the SE3 before it's gone!

 

[McEngr]

[SIZE=12pt]In my humble opinion, the idea of a 16 hour structural exam is the dumbest crap.
We need to a T party to boycott this stupid thing.

Why do they single out structural engineers for this more difficult exam?

Do structural engineers make more money?

- NO.

So is it fair to make structural engineers live more difficult?

[/SIZE]

Well, there's certainly an increase in salary in the states that require it (such as the West Coast). Most SE's will make around $80k+ because they can then legitimize their billable rate rather than just saying 15 years of design experience. I feel that it's more the fault of the NCEES than it is the west coast states. The fact that it's in Columbia, SC might have something to do with the lack of seismic and lateral in the structural exams.

Personally, I think structurals should get paid more than civils. Their jobs are much less mentally challenging. I've seen my civil design cohorts, and they don't have the same challenges.

Please flame away. I don't care.

 

[Hromis1]

Well, there's certainly an increase in salary in the states that require it (such as the West Coast). Most SE's will make around $80k+ because they can then legitimize their billable rate rather than just saying 15 years of design experience. I feel that it's more the fault of the NCEES than it is the west coast states. The fact that it's in Columbia, SC might have something to do with the lack of seismic and lateral in the structural exams.
Personally, I think structurals should get paid more than civils. Their jobs are much less mentally challenging. I've seen my civil design cohorts, and they don't have the same challenges.

Please flame away. I don't care.

I have mixed feelings on this, having been on both sides of the civil and structural table. After years of bouncing between the two, I'll take the responsibilities of the structural side over all the crud that gets heaped on the civil side.

I have spent years on projects getting civil permits, only to have an EPA puke review it who did not now the difference between a pipe flowing half full or filled to the brim. (No exageration there, this really did happen, had to get two PhDs to put a state EPA jerk in his place, don't even get going on the Army Corp, very few real engineers there). The problem with the "civil" side is that they are stuck between all these people that write endless regulations that are written by people who really could not solve a simple math problem. Civils now have a thankless job that mostly consists of getting permits, real design of civil projects is secondary. As a structural I get "thanks" from many of my clients and thier employees, as a civil I was just someone's "#4@&%" to get a permit.

I pray every day I never have to go back to the world of straight civils.....Also an FYI, a lot structurals carry a lot of attitude. They may be smart, but they have little experience in the "civil" field as it exists now.

The structural exams are rough, and I do strongly object to trying to do 16 hours in one sitting. It makes more sense to pass modules one at a time like the CPA's. I can't wait to hear how much that exam costs! 1,500 to 2k I bet!

I do not mind sitting for a tougher exam,....what I mind is the the crazy way the new IBC and Asce 7 are laid out. Would it be too much to ask for a simple flow chart?

Yes, I see a lot of designs that are sorely lacking in the lateral load area. Most my stuff has heavy crane load with impacts and fatigue (they never taught me that stuff in school).

I have even had a few designs here that are dominated by seismic factors (yep side zone of the New Madrid area, oddly loaded).....what I am still struggling with is the "new" code....and HOW DO I CONVINCE MY CLIENTS TO PAY FOR ALL THE EXTRA CALCS REQUIRED????

Okay enough gripping for now, back to studying all those California Seismic example problems!

FYI, this structural guy has had to fall back on some real basic civil skills just to stay busy in these slow times. I guess my years of civil crud are at least paying the bills now.

Hromis1

 

[rsaunders]

Any new movement on this topic? I'm specifically interested in the grandfathering rules. I'm currently registered to take the SE-II exam this spring, but I feel like we're getting the short end of the stick based on the information currently available from NCEES.

Here's the scenario:

A new engineer with 4 years of experience will take the new 16hr format in 2011 and be an SE everywhere. Congrats to them if they pass and I'm not trying to question their licensure. But for those of us who take the SE-I and SE-II in the old formats will have 16 hours of tests passed (assuming I pass) yet still be required to take the new 16 hour exam because I never passed the state specific exams. I will then need to take another 16 hour exam and pass, giving me more experience and 32 hours of examinations to pass to be equal in licensure to someone with less experience and fewer exam hours passed. Granted, all exams are not created equal and the new format may be incredibly difficult and/or more encompassing of the state-specific test topics, but the old formats are no walk in the park either.

Granted, this really only bears upon licensure as an SE in the specific states that have/had state specific exams (CA, WA, and OR). If I ever decide to get licensed there as an SE, I would need to pass the new format.

Here's another scenario, previously mentioned in this forum:

Engineers who passed the SE-I, but don't have credit for passing the SE-II. They apply for comity as a PE in any other state after April 2011. Will they be granted comity, or will they have to take the 16 hour test to get it? Before 2011 they would have been granted comity as a structural PE. If they have to take the new test, this would give them 24 hours of test credit and more experience than the new testing engineers. Is there any chance that having passed the SE-I and having x-years of experience will allow someone to be granted comity in other states? I know I'm guessing here and it may be handled differently by different states, but the questions need to be answered. It directly bears upon how those of us with any given amount of experience my make decisions about which tests to take.

In my most professional opinion, NCEES and the state boards need to consider this information in terms of how they grandfather or grant comity to practicing engineers.

Thoughts?? Anything I'm missing here?

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

Most states, when you apply for comity will look at when you obtained your initial license and compare it to what their requirements were at that time. If you met their requirements at that time, then they'll probably grant you comity.

So for example, if you have the se1 and 2 now, you should be able to get a license in any state down the road that currently allows comity for people with the se1 and 2 now.

At least that's my understanding.

 

[ELB- B2 Engineering]

I think the confusing thing that appears in many of the post is the difference between a PE and an SE designation. While I am a PE in many states (including IL) I am not an SE in any. My original test was taken in PA in 1984. While I took the “structural” questions my PE is in Civil engineering and I received a PE via comity in all other states including IL. As Illinois law is currently written (at least to my understanding) I cannot even sit for the SE exam as my experience was never under the supervision of an SE.

I hope that in the future I will still be able to receive PE via comity for civil engineering as in the past. However, I am resigned to be forced to take the 16 hour test to receive the SE designation. My questions for the boards are a bit more complex ……Will the requirement for supervision by an SE be eliminated? Will I have to apply as a “new” engineer to sit for the test or will I be able to use my NCEES record (having supervisors from 1984 verify experience will be rough as many are no longer with us).