Solar and Wind

[Dleg]

Sounds like anxiety symptoms, to me. This is very telling:

One 2013 study on the wind turbine effect published in the journal Health Psychology examined the power of suggestion and concluded it may have caused the reported health problems.

In the study, researchers exposed 60 participants to 10 minutes of infrasound and then silence. Beforehand, half the group was shown television footage of people who lived near wind farms and were recounting the harmful effects. Within this group, the people who scored high for anxiety developed symptoms, even if they were exposed to sham infrasound.

Even worse:

Rauch also cautions against those who say complaints are psychological in nature.

"That's a slippery slope, blaming the patient in medicine," he said. "I am not a wind industry businessman or a policy maker. I am a doctor, and I take care of my patients."

As an engineer, I can't help but wonder, why hasn't anyone attempted to log the air pressure and sound within their house to see whether or not "infrasound" is present? Or, for a bigger cost, run a bunch of lab rats or dogs through a controlled infrasound experiment. Leaving this to the quacks and lawyers won't answer anything.

 

[Road Guy]

That's over my head but I thought you all would find this interesting...

I got a letter in the mail from my new power company here in Colorado. It had a picture of a windmill and some blue skies, birds etc.. Then it wanted to know if I wanted to elect to pay around $20/ extra / month to have my power delivered from windmills instead if the normal "fossil fuels". That shit may go over in boulder but give me the cheap stuff!

So that's how they make a go of wind power by charging people a surcharge just to use it?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Sounds like anxiety symptoms, to me.

It isn't that at all. They admit they don't like the windmills. This is just an attempt to use the ADA act to get rid of them, at least that's my guess (full disclosure, I had a case where a coworker threatened to sue a company I worked for under ADA because she didn't like smelling the welding fumes).

That's over my head but I thought you all would find this interesting...

I got a letter in the mail from my new power company here in Colorado. It had a picture of a windmill and some blue skies, birds etc.. Then it wanted to know if I wanted to elect to pay around $20/ extra / month to have my power delivered from windmills instead if the normal "fossil fuels". That shit may go over in boulder but give me the cheap stuff!

So that's how they make a go of wind power by charging people a surcharge just to use it?

They apparently have that in Charlotte, and a bunch of people signed up for it (general of the more liberal persuasion).

I call it a dumbass fee.

 

[mudpuppy]

That's over my head but I thought you all would find this interesting...

I got a letter in the mail from my new power company here in Colorado. It had a picture of a windmill and some blue skies, birds etc.. Then it wanted to know if I wanted to elect to pay around $20/ extra / month to have my power delivered from windmills instead if the normal "fossil fuels". That shit may go over in boulder but give me the cheap stuff!

So that's how they make a go of wind power by charging people a surcharge just to use it?

My company has offered this type of program for about 10 years, but that's pretty much fallen by the wayside now because there is so much tax subsidy of wind power that they don't need to charge extra to make a profit now.

 

[Road Guy]

I don't want to subsidize your company why does everyone expects a government handout these days

 

[mudpuppy]

I don't want to subsidize your company why does everyone expects a government handout these days

Lol, yeah... honestly we didn't want to get into the wind power business, but the government made it so attractive that we didn't really have a choice.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

the government made it so attractive that we didn't really have a choice.

The epitaph on the USA's tombstone.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Watch out for those nasty storms:

http://msnvideo.msn.com/?channelindex=4&from=en-us_msnhpvidmod#/video/65831814-e025-4967-9dc5-8bb037d18050

 

[Road Guy]

woah! that was cool!

 

[Dleg]

That was pretty cool. Any idea on the story behind this?

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

No idea. I only saw the video on MSN yesterday.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Video blocked. What was it, a windmill self destructing?

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Pretty much. I looked like it was in some seriously nasty winds and was spinning faster than it should have been when one of the blades delaminated and caused the whole thing to shred itself.

 

[knight1fox3]

^ was probably either an older model or something malfunctioned internally. The dynamic braking feature should have kicked in long before it even ramped up to that velocity. And then it should have been locked in position until the storm passed. But if it was older, it may not have had DB or even speed detection.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

OK, I've seen that one. From what I recall, K1 pretty much nailed it. Overspeed prevention failed. The big debate was whether the blade failed due to speed or vibration.

 

[Master slacker]

In gas / steam turbine world, that blade "liberated" itself.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

A long-awaited analysis of "net metering," the policy that allows homeowners, school districts and businesses to offset the cost of their electric use with the rooftop solar power they generate and export to the grid, finds the policy will cost California's nonsolar customers $1.1 billion a year by 2020.

More: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24182761/popular-solar-net-metering-policy-will-cost-california

 

[Exception Collection]

A long-awaited analysis of "net metering," the policy that allows homeowners, school districts and businesses to offset the cost of their electric use with the rooftop solar power they generate and export to the grid, finds the policy will cost California's nonsolar customers $1.1 billion a year by 2020.

More: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24182761/popular-solar-net-metering-policy-will-cost-california

Wait, allowing people to sell the energy they generate back to the electric company is a bad thing? Aside from the fact that the electric company is (maybe) forced to pay retail rates, this seems like an incontrovertibly good thing. Or should the people that own panels pay for the electricity they aren't using as well?

It looks like they're currently paying (I'm making up variables here)

(Kwu - Kws) * $kwdi

when the formula should be something like

Kwu * $kwdi - Kws*$kwdo

Kwu: Kilowatts used (incoming from electric company)

Kws: Kilowatts supplied (outgoing to solar company)

$kwdi: Retail Delivery Charge per KW incoming (used)

$kwdo: Wholesale Delivery Charge per KW outbound (supplied).

Of course, I'd be willing to bet that the utilities truly, absolutely, DO NOT want to do this. Why? Because during the summer - when power consumption in CA is at it's highest - the peak power supplied by the panels is more likely to be during peak consumption hours (meaning a higher delivery charge rate). If a home uses "x" kw at night and "zx-y" during the day, the company will have to pay more for any extra power if y > zx and (y-zx)*$kwdo(day) > z*$kwdi(night). Solar panel installations in *Oregon* can manage that much, and the efficiency there is a lot lower due to cloud cover.

 

[Dleg]

I didn't read the article, but my utility is dealing with the same thing: when you pay the customer back in the form of offsetting his regular bill, that customer does not pay his share of the base costs of running the utility (T&D, overhead), which then have to be passed on to the non-net metered customers. It's something that is apparently coming back to bite many utilities right in the balls, espcially as the other customers are realizing they are being screwed and are beginning to take legal action.

 

[mudpuppy]

Not sure about the load curve in CA, but here, peak demand occurs around 4-5 PM, which is well after peak sunshine.

In theory, utilities don't care too much about net metering as long as it's mandated by their regulators. The costs will be passed on to the other customers. Granted I work for a utility... but as a customer I think net metering is grossly unfair to those who don't want to slap solar panels on their houses, because they end up subsidizing those who do.