Salary Negotiation

[chaosiscash]

In the consultant/sub-contractor world I live in, its always about negotiations. Most sub compaines charge about the same hourly rate to the fed prime contractors, so what their employees make is mostly based on multipliers and negotiations. If I used the "take whatever I'm given" philosophy, I'd probably be making 15-20k a year less than I make now.

 

[MGX]

It's been a while since I looked for a job, but in the past most places have always asked me my salary requirements along with my resume. I always put the minimum I will accept as the bottom of the range. THen, if they offer me that, I just take it. If they offer me less, I just forget about it - I figure they are playing games.
But it's true you can't trust some employers. When I worked in semiconductor capital equpment everybody was a customer or a competitior and they all knew the staff at other companies. My company kept telling everyone they couldn't afford raises. So, one fellow left, and then the company that hired him made offers to about 10 other staff at my company at 10% raises. On hearing this, my company offered 5% on top of that for them to stay. But some people were so annoyed with the shenanigans they left anyway. And my company actually sued the other company for unfair business practices or some such nonsense. It was ridiculous. THey lost obviously.

I've seen entire sections of staff leave to work for the same boss when he changes companies, even across state lines.

In fire protection, the world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I've generated somewhat of a name for myself just by being efficient and using methods to improve fabrication and design practices. Most of these companies are in the technological dark ages so all I've done is use my brain and apply what I've learned in school.

Thankfully, I was given a tour before hiring on and I promised design time cut in half with a 5K budget for upgrade equipment. Leveraging that for a higher salary than I previously earned worked well and the boss believed me. He got what was promised.

Ultimately, you get what you negotiate IMO. Effective sales isn't taught in engineering colleges, sadly.

On topic: I wouldn't pit companies against one another in the hiring. Managers and owners have very good memories and given the small size of the engineering world a smudge on one's name isn't worth it. Besides, I'd be pissed if someone did that to me.

 

[Art]

Not true. Most employers will screw you at every opportunity they can. You can easily spend tons of time and effort working harder, faster, better with nothing to show for it.

in my 25 years I've never encountered that...

I've worked for 7 different places

large & small construction firms

large & small consulting firms

large government service companies

etc.

I generally believe folks want to treat you right, if you reciprocate...

then again I'm pretty good at sizing things up (sensitive BS detector) and have turned down more than a few jobs because it didn't feel right

the effort I put forth is for my own personal satisfaction, not anyone elses

I need to look at myself in the mirror in the morning

if someone 'thinks' they are screwing me, it's on them, and they are fooling themselves, because I am only letting them do it because at the time, it's to MY advantage

 

[SkyWarp]

^I certainly think employers will often try to keep their good people, but sometimes they wait until you have an offer letter in your hand before they're willing to show you that they don't want you to leave.

 

[Art]

^I certainly think employers will often try to keep their good people, but sometimes they wait until you have an offer letter in your hand before they're willing to show you that they don't want you to leave.

I'm sure there are people like that...

then again, I wouldn't work for them...I want someone to be smart enough to see what I do for them and to treat me with enough respect to show it...and not only with money...

I want a relationship that if I don't feel I am compensated fairly, I can talk to them, not try and leverage them...

but if I found myself with folks like that...I'm gone, and money won't change it...

life is too short to waste time in a situation like that...

to each their own...

I guess that's why I like small companies...you get noticed, for better or worse...lol

you have more responsibility and interaction with the guy signing the check...

not just another cog in the wheel...

but some people like to hide...safety in numbers/anonymity

 

[mudpuppy]

I'm not hiding from anything, but I will say I am glad to work for a large, stable company at a time when a lot of the small firms are laying people off left and right.

 

[Art]

I'm not hiding from anything, but I will say I am glad to work for a large, stable company at a time when a lot of the small firms are laying people off left and right.

it seems in this economy, small or large, none is immune

Cat, GM, MS, etc.

even the USPS is talking about 5 days!

some local utilities are laying off/not replacing

same for our state government...

it's crazy times...

I've found in a small firm, where each individual is more integral, or has unique (to the firm) skills, the individual may be a little safer...

but as I said, no one is immune...

and I did say 'some' like to hide, not all

 

[Flyer_PE]

I've found in a small firm, where each individual is more integral, or has unique (to the firm) skills, the individual may be a little safer...but as I said, no one is immune...

That has been my observation as well. We have a couple of clients that the larger firms couldn't afford to do business with because they don't do enough volume to cover the overhead expenses. We're also diversified enough to prevent any one client from sinking the ship. We aren't immune but I think we're better prepared for rough times than a lot of others.

 

[Art]

That has been my observation as well. We have a couple of clients that the larger firms couldn't afford to do business with because they don't do enough volume to cover the overhead expenses. We're also diversified enough to prevent any one client from sinking the ship. We aren't immune but I think we're better prepared for rough times than a lot of others.

I agree...

also in a smaller firm more personal Client relationships are built up...

the Client pays for YOU, as much as the firm...

they are YOUR Client...

but then again, a double edged sword...every problem is YOURS, and the midnight phone calls when they have an issue...

 

[MGX]

Wir fahren, fahren, fahren auf der autobahn...

I got nothing...

 

[SuperAlpha]

I don't blame him; I think he is doing it correctly. Anyone who would counter on me would get the boot. I am of the belief you take what you are given and come in and prove yourself, then you get rewarded.
We had a guy here who had no experience and countered... it just baffles me... finding a good job is tough, and I've always felt that countering would kill any chance you'd have at a job. At least that is my experience.

If you are not willing to negotiate, then you are not serious about filling the position....If you were serious about the position then you would realize that you actually *need* the employee. Negotiation leads the employer and potential employee to a win-win deal. Your "deal or no deal" approach actually harms the company because it expects the employee to take it in the shorts because you have an apparent advantage due to economic reasons. Don't be surprised if he seeks other employment or is not very loyal since you "stuck it to him."

Everything is a negotiation and each party should put their wish number out there and work toward a win-win solution.

 

[SkyWarp]

If you are not willing to negotiate, then you are not serious about filling the position....If you were serious about the position then you would realize that you actually *need* the employee. Negotiation leads the employer and potential employee to a win-win deal. Your "deal or no deal" approach actually harms the company because it expects the employee to take it in the shorts because you have an apparent advantage due to economic reasons. Don't be surprised if he seeks other employment or is not very loyal since you "stuck it to him."Everything is a negotiation and each party should put their wish number out there and work toward a win-win solution.

I would be okay with a no negotiation approach if the company published everyone's salary. If what they offer really is the highest they can go, I'd like to see proof.

 

[JoeBoone82]

I would be okay with a no negotiation approach if the company published everyone's salary. If what they offer really is the highest they can go, I'd like to see proof.

I agree. If they are stuck on one figure, then I would like to see that everyone else with my credentials are in the same ballpark. I would at least like to see ranges, kind of like gov't does... showing that you must meet these requirements to be at this particular level, and this is the range of pay for that particular level. In the private industry, you have no idea how you compare to an equivalent peer.

In my case though, right out of school, I tried to negotiate and was told that the figure they gave me first was all that they could do. I took it though, even though it was less than some other places because I liked the company, people, location, etc and had interned with them before. I think they made it up in the end though with good raises. A graduating student doesnt have much leverage though, but in some of your cases with lots of experiences, licensing, etc... I think companies should negotiate or show their hand.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I've found in a small firm, where each individual is more integral, or has unique (to the firm) skills, the individual may be a little safer...but as I said, no one is immune...

I've found that not to be true outside of the consulting world. In manufacturing/sales, the engineer (yep, I was the only one) is the first to go. So much for saving enough money to cover my salary and profit sharing every year and designing a product responsible for 60% of the company profit.