Pedestrian Bridge Collapse - Florida International University

[mudpuppy]

IDK does criminal negligence cause jail time?

By definition most criminal action could involve jail time (excluding civil infractions like parking or speeding tickets).  It's up to the prosecutor to determine charges, but it's possible they could bring up something like negligent homicide or reckless endangerment if they feel they can prove it.  If convicted they could end up in jail, paying a fine (to the government), probation, community service, losing a license, etc.  But a negligent homicide conviction would likely include some jail time.  Conviction under criminal law requires a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Separately, as Kevo mentioned, the victims can bring a civil action under tort law.  In this case the victims would likely be looking for monetary damages from the engineers/contractors, etc.  There is no risk of imprisonment, so the burden of proof is much lower (a preponderance of evidence) so these cases are easier for the plaintiff to win.

On a side note, often people go through both criminal and civil action for a crime.  In those cases you'll sometimes see people plead "no contest" to the criminal charge in order to enter a plea bargain without admitting guilt, because if they admit guilt in the criminal case they'll almost automatically also lose civil case as well.

In this particular case I read that the victims already settled with the construction company (which is bankrupt) for $42 million.  No word on criminal charges, but Dean Agnostic, this story seems to indicate manslaughter or negligent homicide charges are unlikely:  https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article205607154.html

 

[Road Guy]

in my opinion unless they design was intentionally flawed to produce injuries and fatalities then its not a criminal case

 

[wilheldp_PE]

in my opinion unless they design was intentionally flawed to produce injuries and fata then its not a criminal case

I think the "negligent" part indicates they might not have known, but they *should have* known.

 

[kevo_55]

:bump:

It apparently was a design (& peer reviewer) error.

https://patch.com/florida/miami/fiu-will-build-another-pedestrian-bridge-ntsb-blames-design

 

[Supe]

The abstract in that article is pretty good.

 

[csb]

Here's the NTSB link: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20191022.aspx

 

[Tiger15]

...

9. The consultant retained by EOR to conduct independent peer review of the EOR’s design, as per FDOT requirements, did not check the structural integrity of the bridge under different construction stages, a violation of the FDOT requirements. The independent check was performed only under the final design stage when all segments of the bridge were constructed and completed.

...

I am interested in knowing more about this. Is this the responsibility of the EOR? of the construction company? Does it depend on who determines the construction steps, engineer vs builder? 

 

[Road Guy]

Wow so if they didn't do the independent check until it was construction then it seems there was some mis-steps on the owners side as well, on every design build project I have been on the independent calcs are submitted with Pre RFC submission?  

 

[MA_PE]

Means and methods are often left to the contractor.  However, withe these new “efficient” designs it seems prudent to check the stability at various construction stages.  Sometimes construction loads are the controlling design loads.

 

[Road Guy]

typical misleading headline (WSP acquired one of the firms involved in the design)

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/wsp-faces-fiu-bridge-collapse-lawsuit-despite-not-being-involved-in-project-28-09-2020/?tkn=1

^- Some good figures in the article though.

I still say these type of "cutesy" ped bridges shouldnt be designed, or built at all, especially when using tax payer money, build the standard ugly ped bridge with some Bulb-T beams and standard bents this doesnt happen..  If private money wants to make the bridge "look cool" then fine, bill them for the upgrades (& the risk)

 

[leggo PE]

I just watched a presentation about this collapse and it’s still, obviously, such a tragedy. So many missteps at critical points in design and construction. I’ve actually gotta sit down and read the NTSB report. I think there’s an OSHA report too.

 

[BamaStrucPESE]

Houston will have to demo a portion of one of the major highways due to structural "Significant flaws". Guess who the engineering firm was...

'Significant' flaws in Beltway 8 bridge under construction will cost Harris County millions

 

[Tiger15]

typical misleading headline (WSP acquired one of the firms involved in the design)

WSP faces FIU bridge collapse lawsuit despite not being involved in project | New Civil Engineer

^- Some good figures in the article though.

I still say these type of "cutesy" ped bridges shouldnt be designed, or built at all, especially when using tax payer money, build the standard ugly ped bridge with some Bulb-T beams and standard bents this doesnt happen.. If private money wants to make the bridge "look cool" then fine, bill them for the upgrades (& the risk)

Those are excellent figures

 

[Reverse Polish]

I just watched a presentation about this collapse and it’s still, obviously, such a tragedy. So many missteps at critical points in design and construction. I’ve actually gotta sit down and read the NTSB report. I think there’s an OSHA report too.

Such an awful and preventable tragedy. The seeds were sown, however, when some genius at FDOT decided that every main road in the state needed to be a high-speed 8-lane divided highway.

 

[steel]

Such an awful and preventable tragedy. The seeds were sown, however, when some genius at FDOT decided that every main road in the state needed to be a high-speed 8-lane divided highway.

The width of the roadway ha absolutely nothing to do with what happened. Longer bridges in history have survived, and shorter ones have collapsed.

I'm not a transportation engineer, but I'd wager that the width of most roadways in Florida wasn't decided based on chance.

 

[Reverse Polish]

The width of the roadway ha absolutely nothing to do with what happened. Longer bridges in history have survived, and shorter ones have collapsed.

I'm not a transportation engineer, but I'd wager that the width of most roadways in Florida wasn't decided based on chance.

Oh, it most definitely does. If you have streets that are pedestrian-friendly and crossable on foot, and roadway geometries that aren't divided highways with speed limits of 45 mph, you have no need for pedestrian bridges.

I'm not a transportation guy, but I know that as engineers, our job is to find cost-effective and safe solutions for all stakeholders...not to build gold-plated infrastructure that only meets the needs of cars. The 1950s are over. We're smarter than this.

 

[steel]

Oh, it most definitely does. If you have streets that are pedestrian-friendly and crossable on foot, and roadway geometries that aren't divided highways with speed limits of 45 mph, you have no need for pedestrian bridges.

I'm not a transportation guy, but I know that as engineers, our job is to find cost-effective and safe solutions for all stakeholders...not to build gold-plated infrastructure that only meets the needs of cars. The 1950s are over. We're smarter than this.

I'm not refuting that the bridge should have been necessary. Though neither of us truly know what decisions led to the design of that particular roadway.

I'm saying that the span of the bridge was not the cause of the collapse. Like I said, history has seen longer spans survive and shorter spans collapse. Do some research on what caused the collapse. The span distance was not the cause. That's a fact.

 

[Reverse Polish]

I'm not refuting that the bridge should have been necessary. Though neither of us truly know what decisions led to the design of that particular roadway.

I'm saying that the span of the bridge was not the cause of the collapse. Like I said, history has seen longer spans survive and shorter spans collapse. Do some research on what caused the collapse. The span distance was not the cause. That's a fact.

You may want to watch your condescension.

The point I'm making is that, if you have a "regular" four-lane main street, with "regular" speed limits and traffic controls, such that pedestrians aren't regularly fearing for their lives trying to cross that road... then there is no bridge necessary at all, and hence, no collapse. The problem is that the roadway--the ecosystem in which the bridge existed--was completely overengineered in the first place. It was "fixed" with another completely overengineered (and expensive) solution. You don't see pedestrian bridges all over Manhattan, do you?

As practicing engineers, our problems exist in real-world contexts, and we must extend beyond isolated technical bubbles. I'm looking at root factors of how we got to the point of this problem even existing, which one can argue is far more important than being able to identify a shear crack. Perhaps in this case, the proper (and safer, less expensive) engineering solution was narrowing of the roadway and lowering of speed limits.

 

[steel]

You may want to watch your condescension.

Dude, now you're just getting offended over an intellectual discussion about a bridge collapse.

All I said was that the span length of the bridge did not cause the collapse. We can talk about the needs for bridges and highways all day, but that's not a part of this topic. But I consider this discussion over because you really don't want to hear anything except from your own mouth.

So yeah, I'll be condescending right now: just because you say one right thing doesn't make everyone else wrong. I literally acknowledged you're correct, but you're harping on me being wrong. *Ignore button pressed*

 

[Reverse Polish]

Dude, now you're just getting offended over an intellectual discussion about a bridge collapse.

No, I was offended when you wrote, "Do some research" and proceeded to put words in my mouth. As if you're the only structural engineer who has read anything about what has become a very publicized incident. Know your audience. Some of us have been around longer than you.