PE - HVAC October 2010

[MechEngineer]

Mechgirl,

Which afternoon depth did you take? I am taking thermal / fluids and wondering do I need all the 4 ASHRAE books you have mentioned?

Thanks.

I used the most recent ASHRAE handbooks (mechguy listed the titles). If you're an ASHRAE member, they send you a new handbook every year. My company pays for two pro organization memberships per year, so I've always maintained my ASHRAE membership (but I think I've only attended 2 meetings). http://www.ashrae.org/publications/page/158 . If you're buying them new, make sure you get the IP edition for English units. Maybe you could borrow some from your office library? If you work as a consultant in the USA , you should have a copy of these.
I did use all four handbooks. Before the test, I tabbed topics and tables that I thought I would need.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Mechgirl,
Which afternoon depth did you take? I am taking thermal / fluids and wondering do I need all the 4 ASHRAE books you have mentioned?

Thanks.

I'd think the fundamentals, Equipment and Refrigeration one can be of use to anyone in the morning. The "Application" one might only be useful for HVAC in the afternoon. But if you have them, just take all four.

I think as a student member the books are $ 49 each (as student member you don't get the annual free one). If you work in the industry at all, you should have them anyway.. if you company is too stinchy to buy those books for your work, I'm concerned those ASHRAE books are HVAC bibles...

if you work mainly in fluids, there might be more fluid specific books in addition.

At work everyone else is Civil & transportation engineer. so they weren't much help... but they said many of the questions they could just look up from a table in their standard "bibles". So knowing those books is really helpful.

 

[dneva]

Mechgirl,
Can you please provide the editions and names of the 4 ASHRAE handbooks

Your help is appreciated.

I'm not Mechgirl but only a few letters off.

The 4 ASHRAE books are Fundamentals, Applications, Refrigeration and Systems & Equipment. I used the 1997-2000 editions (one of the four books is updated every year). You can buy the newer editions but they cost a lot more than older used editions, and the information is 90-95% the same from 10-15 years ago. It's enough to get you through the PE exam, but if you want the new ones for reference they're a good investment if you're an HVAC designer.

Thanks Mechguy and Mechgirl.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Yesterday I received the MERM, "Engineering unit conversion" and "six minute solution HVAC". UPS is supposed to deliver the "NCEES sample exam" tomorrow.

So far I'm doing this:

- reading all MERM chapters (and later all ASHRAE books) and make a table with where is all stuff (i.e. pumps in MERM chapter 18, ASHRAE.. etc.). I assume if I print it and put it in a 3-ring binder it will be allowed. That way I get an overview over what there is and a refresher. I'm already at chapter 27 in MERM. Almost everything I already knew at some point. I haven't done any of the MERM examples (but will eventually in the second run).

- Six minute solutions: it only seems to have HVAC breadth and depths questions. I glanced at them and almost all looked like I have an idea how to solve them once I quickly know my references. It recommends the following references: all 4 ASHRAE books, ASHRAE standard 15, 34, 55, 62, 84, 90.1, and 2006 uniform Mechanical Code. I have or can justify buying this through work.

- It also recommends: CTI standard 201-2004 for Certification of Water Cooling tower thermal performance, Crane Technical Paper "flow of fluids through valves, fittings and pipes" the "Hydraulic Institute: engineering Data book" and ANSI standard "Gas Water Heaters"and ANSI "Gas Central furnaces". Are these really needed or useful in addition to the material above?

- MERM recommends many references on page "XXVI": Mollier charts, different psychometric charts for different altitudes and temperatures, machinery's handbook etc.... are any of those needed or are the MERM charts and charts int eh ASHRAE books and tables enough? Especially related to the Machine Design and TF parts of the am section. it seems like overkill to me to get all that. Especially considering buying all this will be expensive and i don't think I'll be proficient with all these books.

- All my references so far are HVAC heavy. Do I need machine design and fluid specific references for the am section? and if yes, which?

- Sample Exams: I think I'm convinced the "101 solutions" is not worth the money and time to prepare for the test. How good are "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" and "Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam"? The latter one got good reviews on Amazon and i think I'll buy it. The "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" reviews say it is much harder than the test. so I'm not sure if it will be really helpful???

- which of the MERM chapters will NOT be part of the exam?

 

[mechgirl]

Yesterday I received the MERM, "Engineering unit conversion" and "six minute solution HVAC". UPS is supposed to deliver the "NCEES sample exam" tomorrow. So far I'm doing this:

- reading all MERM chapters (and later all ASHRAE books) and make a table with where is all stuff (i.e. pumps in MERM chapter 18, ASHRAE.. etc.). I assume if I print it and put it in a 3-ring binder it will be allowed. That way I get an overview over what there is and a refresher. I'm already at chapter 27 in MERM. Almost everything I already knew at some point. I haven't done any of the MERM examples (but will eventually in the second run).

- Six minute solutions: it only seems to have HVAC breadth and depths questions. I glanced at them and almost all looked like I have an idea how to solve them once I quickly know my references. It recommends the following references: all 4 ASHRAE books, ASHRAE standard 15, 34, 55, 62, 84, 90.1, and 2006 uniform Mechanical Code. I have or can justify buying this through work.

- It also recommends: CTI standard 201-2004 for Certification of Water Cooling tower thermal performance, Crane Technical Paper "flow of fluids through valves, fittings and pipes" the "Hydraulic Institute: engineering Data book" and ANSI standard "Gas Water Heaters"and ANSI "Gas Central furnaces". Are these really needed or useful in addition to the material above?

- MERM recommends many references on page "XXVI": Mollier charts, different psychometric charts for different altitudes and temperatures, machinery's handbook etc.... are any of those needed or are the MERM charts and charts int eh ASHRAE books and tables enough? Especially related to the Machine Design and TF parts of the am section. it seems like overkill to me to get all that. Especially considering buying all this will be expensive and i don't think I'll be proficient with all these books.

- All my references so far are HVAC heavy. Do I need machine design and fluid specific references for the am section? and if yes, which?

- Sample Exams: I think I'm convinced the "101 solutions" is not worth the money and time to prepare for the test. How good are "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" and "Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam"? The latter one got good reviews on Amazon and i think I'll buy it. The "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" reviews say it is much harder than the test. so I'm not sure if it will be really helpful???

- which of the MERM chapters will NOT be part of the exam?

There are Six Min Solution (SMS) books for HVAC, Thermal & Fluids, and Machine Design. My depth was HVAC, so I only purchased the HVAC SMS. Yes, I thought the price was ridiculous, but had heard folks say that they were most representative of the exam, and I knew that the more practice problems, the better. I'm glad I did. I remember that these solutions were more helpful than most. I felt very comfortable with Thermal & Fluids, so I didn't think I needed to purchase that SMS. I had seen some posts that folks had found errors in the Machine Design SMS, so I didn't get that one. Machine Design was my weakest subject, so I did extra review, but I still felt I underestimated that subject while I was in the exam. You're the best judge of what you need to focus on. The more practice problems you can get, the better off you'll be.

The MERM has tables for friction loss equiv length through fittings, friction factors, Mollier diagrams, psych charts, pretty much everything you'll need. Get familiar with the appendices. I don't think you need Cranes, or any of those other references. I forgot that I did make a couple copies from ASHRAE standard 62, and put them in my binder for the exam. I also took my IMC (International Mech Code). I don't remember using either of these on the exam. If you have these reference available at your office, perhaps you can just be familiar with where things are located, then borrow them for the exam? I wouldn't purchase them for the exam.

I didn't take any other text books to the exam, and I didn't use any thermal/fluids or machine design references except the MERM, Lindeberg practice problems, Lindeberg sample exam, and NCEES sample exam.

I would get the Lindeberg practice problems and sample exam. I think the Lindberg sample exam is too difficult to finish in 8 hours (at least for me). The problems are a bit too long. But I think it's a very helpful study tool to use for practice problems. I worked all the depths to practice for the morning section. With all my books, and working them multiple times, I still felt like I didn't have enough practice problems. So I would definitely recommend the Lindeberg sample exam and practice problems.

The ASHRAE handbooks have some example problems in them that you can work. I would be familiar with the books, and use them for reference when working your practice problems, but reading these books is a huge undertaking. There's a lot in them.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

thanks, Mechgirl. I ordered both of the books today.

My strategy is to get an overall overview of all references (browsing through, not literally reading every word since most is already kind of familiar).

then I'll make a table with what is where and what is redundant (some MERM things are in ASHRAE in almost same form or depth) then do the MERM (and maybe ASHRAE) examples. Then I do the more difficult "PE Practice Problems". Once that is done I'll time myself on the more realistic tests (NCEES etc.). No point in timing myself on tests that are more difficult.

On the machine design I'll just use the MERM. It is 20% in the am session, so it is 10% overall. With some luck I can solve some, and maybe be lucky in guessing the rest. I'd rather put all my eggs into the HVAC basket (along with fluids), which I'm better at to begin with. If I get half of the machine stuff wrong, I only lose 5% overall.

Besides ASHRAE books I'll take the ASHRAE standards with me, MERM, IMC and then almost nothing else. I know some people bring baskets full of books. But this seems putting too much focus on the wrong things - unless you really are fluent with those books.

Thanks, really good advice. now it seems very logical. At first before seeing any sample tests and the MERM I was much more worried.

 

[mechgirl]

thanks, Mechgirl. I ordered both of the books today. My strategy is to get an overall overview of all references (browsing through, not literally reading every word since most is already kind of familiar).

then I'll make a table with what is where and what is redundant (some MERM things are in ASHRAE in almost same form or depth) then do the MERM (and maybe ASHRAE) examples. Then I do the more difficult "PE Practice Problems". Once that is done I'll time myself on the more realistic tests (NCEES etc.). No point in timing myself on tests that are more difficult.

On the machine design I'll just use the MERM. It is 20% in the am session, so it is 10% overall. With some luck I can solve some, and maybe be lucky in guessing the rest. I'd rather put all my eggs into the HVAC basket (along with fluids), which I'm better at to begin with. If I get half of the machine stuff wrong, I only lose 5% overall.

Besides ASHRAE books I'll take the ASHRAE standards with me, MERM, IMC and then almost nothing else. I know some people bring baskets full of books. But this seems putting too much focus on the wrong things - unless you really are fluent with those books.

Thanks, really good advice. now it seems very logical. At first before seeing any sample tests and the MERM I was much more worried.

But you were supposed to buy my books that I'm selling! Either way, I think you'll be glad you have them.

Another helpful resource: search this message board for the yahoo ME PE study group. I remember someone posted info on joining the group. If you join the group, they have a file library posted online with a lot of resources. They had some codes/standards, and also had Mark's Machinary Handbook (non-printable version), and more that I don't recall.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

My current strategy is to solve the 500 "Practice Problems". for that I do each question on my own and then compare to the solution. I also look at the solution when I don't know how to do it. that way I learn well. I try to do that every night and almost all weekends.

I just wonder, which chapters won't be necessary for the HVAC exam? I think chapter 19 (Fluid Power) would not be in HVAC. I also think the Algebra chapters won't be necessary. Any ideas on which MERM chapters one could skip for HVAC am and pm?

Once I'm done (hopefully by end of September) I'll do the 6-minute solutions, the PPI sample exam, and the NCEES sample exam and time myself.

I'm also making cheat sheets that have the most common equations, conversions and rule-of-thumb calculations. that also contains where for each topic I find more information (Like on which MERM page, which ASHRAE etc.).

Edit: I also read a lot here the recommendation to buy the 6-minute solution of the other 2 sections (Machine design / T/F) in order to be better prepared for the am section. Is that any useful after doing all the sample problems? I already have the feeling some of the sample problems go beyond what I need for am and HVAC pm. I guess if i have time left, I could consider it. but it seems a waste of time and money. Any recommendations based on experience? (Obviously I know it always is better to study more than less and it wouldn't hurt - but I won't have that much time left and rather do something more useful to pass)

 

[Bman]

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.

Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.

when i compare the '500" problems to the NCEES sample exam it seems to me the NCEES exam doesn't go into depth at all in certain areas as the "500"sample questions go. Was that your impression of the actual exam that it is closer to the NCEES sample exam in difficulty? At least I'd think many of the "500" problems are way too long to be on the exam.

I'm thinking if I can skip some of the long questions?

for example the one combustion question on the NCEES exam I could solve without any studying. the sample questions are kind of exhaustive (not really hard, but to be solved in multiple steps)

Edit: for the FE exam I also was under the impression many of the Lindeburg sample questions were way too exhaustive for the test.

 

[navyasw02]

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.

I havent taken the PE yet, but I definitely feel like there's a good third of the book I can skim or skip and not miss anything. There's no way you can know every single topic perfectly, you just have to know where to find it if asked. Also, there's some sections in there that I really doubt you'd see unless you're taking the depth section for that topic. I could be wrong, but I dont think they'll ask too many questions about advanced topics like Fanno or Rayleigh Flow or shocks on an AM section. That really narrows down the subject matter to basic fluid mechanics (pumps and head loss type problems), basic thermo (processes, saturation/steam table problems), heat xfer, power cycles, psychometrics, basic solid mechanics, and maybe some oddball questions from MD, economics, and some other sections that you can find by going through the index.

 

[Bman]

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.

when i compare the '500" problems to the NCEES sample exam it seems to me the NCEES exam doesn't go into depth at all in certain areas as the "500"sample questions go. Was that your impression of the actual exam that it is closer to the NCEES sample exam in difficulty? At least I'd think many of the "500" problems are way too long to be on the exam.

I'm thinking if I can skip some of the long questions?

for example the one combustion question on the NCEES exam I could solve without any studying. the sample questions are kind of exhaustive (not really hard, but to be solved in multiple steps)

Edit: for the FE exam I also was under the impression many of the Lindeburg sample questions were way too exhaustive for the test.

I've posted in many different threads that I thought the actual exam was harder than the NCEES or the SMS problems. The questions asked were similar in nature, but the actual systems being analyzed were much more complicated on the actual exam. For example: When asked to find the C.O.P. for a refrigerations system, the NCEES Practice Exam would show you a simple system with the 4 main components (compressor, condenser, evaporator, expansion valve); easy enough. This same type of question might be asked on the actual exam, but expect there to be additional components beyond the 4 just discussed (this is as much detail as I am willing or allowed to go here...), so there is additional analysis that needs to be considered and I just didn't anticipate....

As far as some of the practice questions, the only ones I skipped were some of the 1 hour questions in the MERM practice problems book. If you have the time and energy, I would solve them (I didn't). The ones I did solve did not take an hour; they are basically several questions grouped together into a single problem...

I focused the final weeks of my studying on the NCEES and SMS books and worked through each them about 3 times til I could understand and solve all of the questions without a problem. This strategy seemed to work for me as I passed the exam my first time....

 

[Bman]

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.

I havent taken the PE yet, but I definitely feel like there's a good third of the book I can skim or skip and not miss anything. There's no way you can know every single topic perfectly, you just have to know where to find it if asked. Also, there's some sections in there that I really doubt you'd see unless you're taking the depth section for that topic. I could be wrong, but I dont think they'll ask too many questions about advanced topics like Fanno or Rayleigh Flow or shocks on an AM section. That really narrows down the subject matter to basic fluid mechanics (pumps and head loss type problems), basic thermo (processes, saturation/steam table problems), heat xfer, power cycles, psychometrics, basic solid mechanics, and maybe some oddball questions from MD, economics, and some other sections that you can find by going through the index.

I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.

 

[navyasw02]

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.

I havent taken the PE yet, but I definitely feel like there's a good third of the book I can skim or skip and not miss anything. There's no way you can know every single topic perfectly, you just have to know where to find it if asked. Also, there's some sections in there that I really doubt you'd see unless you're taking the depth section for that topic. I could be wrong, but I dont think they'll ask too many questions about advanced topics like Fanno or Rayleigh Flow or shocks on an AM section. That really narrows down the subject matter to basic fluid mechanics (pumps and head loss type problems), basic thermo (processes, saturation/steam table problems), heat xfer, power cycles, psychometrics, basic solid mechanics, and maybe some oddball questions from MD, economics, and some other sections that you can find by going through the index.

I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.

Personally, I think the MD sections of the MERM are pretty weak once you get past basic solid mechanics and get into the meat of machine design. I spent a day reading through my Shigley book to refresh on that stuff so hopefully that section will be a bit easier now as I try more practice problems.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.

I find myself working through each chapter (at 29 now) and try to do as many problems as i can. but at some point the problems seem to be way too complex to be in the test. Especially when it is Thermo/Fluid/Machine I kind of don't do the problems if they get too complicated (and if the solution is a page long).

i try to do one chapter every day after work. some days I just don't really get to do much and hope to make up for it on weekends. Obviously some chapters have none or only very few easy problems (which i find weird, since I paid for the MERM and MERM covers the chapters assuming they'd be important, but then there are no questions)

The NCEES sample exam seems much much easier than the sample problems.

The questions that actually relate to HVAC (i.e. duct design) really seem easy to me. But all the machine design stuff is like a foreign language to me, my head hurts. So I hope the am section aren't too hard on those parts (I do HVAC pm).

It appears the MERM often is not sufficient to solve the problems. for example chapter 30 (Nuclear) has no single equation needed to solve the questions.

I hope to be all done with the "500"Lindeburg questions (or 300 if i skip many by end of September. then i do the PPI sample exam, HVAC SMS and NCEES. Maybe i buy the other to SMS if I have enough time since everyone seems to think they are helpful. If i still have time I can revisit the "500" questions that I skipped.

Will there be much regarding fire protection or other code questions? I read NFPA and uniform mechanical code are good to take. The issue is, in our city (I work for a city) the International fire code is adapted and our state code is based on internationall mechanical code. so I have the INTERNATIONAL codes available and don't want to buy the national ones. I can't imagine they are so different that it is worth buying different a versions.

I have all the ASHRAE books and standards (15,34, 55, 62, 90) at work.

 

[navyasw02]

I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.

I find myself working through each chapter (at 29 now) and try to do as many problems as i can. but at some point the problems seem to be way too complex to be in the test. Especially when it is Thermo/Fluid/Machine I kind of don't do the problems if they get too complicated (and if the solution is a page long).

i try to do one chapter every day after work. some days I just don't really get to do much and hope to make up for it on weekends. Obvioulsy some chapters have none or only very few easy problems (which i find weird, since I paid for the MERM and MERM covers the chapters assuming they'd be important, but then there are no questions)

The NCEES sample exam seems much much easier than the sample problems.

The questions that actually relate to HVAC (i.e. duct design) really seem easy to me. But all the machine design stuff is like a foreign language to me, my head hurts. So I hope the am section aren't too hard on those parts (I do HVAC pm).

It appears the MERM often is not sufficient to solve the problems.

I hope to be all done with the "500"Lindeburg questions (or 300 if i skip many by end of September. then i do the PPI sample exam, HVAC SMS and NCEES. Maybe i buy the other to SMS if I have enough time since everyone seems to think they are helpful. If i still have time I can revisit the "500" questions that I skipped.

Will there be much regarding fire protection or other code questions? I read NFPA and uniform mechanical code are good to take. The issue is, in our city (I work for a city) the International fire code is adapted and our state code is based on internationall mechanical code. so I have the INTERNATIONAL codes available and don't want to buy the national ones. I can't imagine they are so different that it is worth buying different a versions.

I have all the ASHRAE books and standards (15,34, 55, 62, 90) at work.

What's the best way to study for the AM session? I was thinking about doing the afternoon sessions of the NCEES exams, but I think those might be a little more complex than the AM session questions.

 

[Bman]

I think you guys are both on track and seem to be doing fine. Once you get to the point where you start taking the sample exams, you will get a better understanding of where you need to begin focusing and getting more in depth. I took the PPI exam about 6 weeks before the exam date. Many people say just work through the problems, but I did it timed to help condition myself for the stress of taking an 8 hour exam... At this point, just keep trudging along and do the best you can to at least familiarize yourselves with as much material as possible.