P.E. -- Past, Present, & Future?

[Dark Knight]

After reading the additionals posts by GT there are three options:

a) He is another alias from the Mods(i.e. Sapper) and he is just messing with us. No way somebody can be so arrogant

B) He is TMcK. He is playing it perfectly.

c) He is God undercover as an engineer.

 

[IlPadrino]

Ok, this has been, ummm, interesting. I do have a question though. What exactly is a software engineer? My understanding has always been that a person that designs computer hardware (and firmware) systems is a Computer Engineer (usually with an electrical engineering degree), and a person that creates software is a computer programmer (usually with a computer science degree). Are my definitions off (I'll admit right now that I could be completely wrong)? Where does Software Engineer fit in?

Computer or Computer and Systems Engineering has a foundation of programming but it's the applications that make it engineering. I could have easily been a EE (the difference was only about five courses) but I liked the systems approach part of CSYS. At my school all three (EE, Computer, and Systems) are under the same department.

I think programmers have created the term software engineer and I don't particularly like it. I think software is an ART, not a SCIENCE - so I don't know that I even like the term "computer scientist". Still, I guess it's clear they're more scientist and artist.

For me, the acid test for calling yourself an Engineer is a) do you drive a train? or B) is there a clear and distinguished path for earning a PE? That's why I started responding to this thread... I see the increased number of ways to earn a PE as diluting the clarity of what an Engineer really means; you can easily get around the education and the experience requirements and then sit for an exam that in some cases is easier than others.

I like the talk of health and public safety. I apologize for what may be my ignorance, but how does an Agricultural Engineer address health or safety other than pesticides and fertilizers?

 

[IlPadrino]

Well, I'm done feeding this troll.

I'm not convinced he's a troll (though I wouldn't bet a case of beer against it, either)... I just think he's got an enormous ego that has been inadvertently fed by calling attention to it. I can separate his deficient (well... maybe that's not the best word) personality from the subject at hand.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

I just gave this guy 5 days to review the "I play nicely with others manual"

Either way, you'll never be half the engineer I am.

True, many of us are already twice that, which wouldn't take much.

 

[maryannette]

:true: I work with an engineer who has been a friend and coworker for many years. We have some very good non-engineering discussions. You know--LIFE topics. In a discussion about family, I talked about my brother who is mentally disabled. My friend told me that he is the least educated person in his family, except for his mother. All of his brothers and his father have doctorate degrees. We decided that higher degrees, certifications, big titles, lots of money, etc. do not make you happy. We compared his father and my brother. One, highly educated, rich, and unable to function in society. He has no friends and doesn't even spend time with family. The other didn't finish high school, has almost enough money to live on, but lives a good life and enjoys the blessings he has. Just something to think about.

 

[Desert Engineer]

VTEnviro,

Maybe you should send GT the link to TMcKeon's E...trades.com board. I think the two of them would get along very well. They could have some interesting conversations about how each is better than the other. just imagine that...

 

[Guest]

^^^ I like the way you think !! :thumbs:

JR

 

[Road Guy]

(okay I admit I posted this before reading the last couple of posts)

one thing I do agree on is that the more engineering keeps getting sub-divided I think the worse we will be as a proffession. Sort of like the old saying, together we stand, divided we fall, or something like that... sorry, having a GW moment...

We always strive to be similar to Doctors & Lawyers, and they seem to rarely add new "specialties" whereas we seem to add new programs at colleges every year.

In Civil, people can rarely do more than one discipline, We have people who do only drainage that have never layed out a road & vice versa. How many Geotech people could do a set of signing and marking plans? & once you go down the ENV road, you can almost never go back. While there are exceptions, it does seem that Civil is becoming like wal-mart in some ways, sorry thats not my department.

 

[Guest]

... sorry, having a GW moment...

Hmmm .. I think I can see a new bumper sticker in your future

JR

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

We always strive to be similar to Doctors & Lawyers, and they seem to rarely add new "specialties" whereas we seem to add new programs at colleges every year.
How many Geotech people could do a set of signing and marking plans? & once you go down the ENV road, you can almost never go back.

Well I imagine its similar in the medical and law professions. If you do patent law, you probably aren't going to work a personal injury case and if you are a dermatologist you probably aren't going to check someone's kidneys.

That's why you have project teams. Most people know the general practice and have a specialty skill in one or two areas. I'm pretty good at stormwater design but if you want me to design a new highway interchange you're outta luck.

 

[Dark Knight]

^^^^I agree with that.

But when you were a top engineer recruit in the nation, from a top 3 engineering college, and own a multi-million dollar business there is nothing you can't do. The PE status is just like the Tonka truck we always wanted once, got it, and after a few months was left on the playground until it was taken to the Salvation Army boot.

 

[cement]

I tell you what....
Send me your fax #, and I'll send you an offer I recieved from the worlds' largest corporation for an engineering management position BEFORE graduating from undergrad -- 6 figure offer.

Then you can post it on this site, and we'll see who the real troll is -- deal?

Either way, you'll never be half the engineer I am.

It's OK, I've got a word processor and photoshop and I can make my own offer. Heck, I know a gut who makes 140k part time!

 

[Dark Knight]

I tell you what....
Send me your fax #, and I'll send you an offer I recieved from the worlds' largest corporation for an engineering management position BEFORE graduating from undergrad -- 6 figure offer.

Then you can post it on this site, and we'll see who the real troll is -- deal?

Either way, you'll never be half the engineer I am.

I miss Tom so much now.......

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

Heck, I know a gut who makes 140k part time!

Wow, what does the rest of his body make?

 

[chaosiscash]

If this guy is for real (which I doubt), I can see why he has his own company. I can't imagine anyone that would actually be willing to work WITH him.

 

[jroyce]

Wow... I just came back from a long vacation (ok only 4 days) and back to the information and "connected" world to read this guys crap.

I'll tell you that I wasn't going to comment on the blithering rambles of a pompous ******* who thinks he is God's gift to the engineering world but then I had to.

I would take the "Grandfathered" engineer who has 30-50 years of experience before I would take a graduate of a top 3 engineer school and Fortune 500 blah blah blah. My dad and grandfather were both grandfathered in because of their work experience and those guys both taught me more then what GT has probably taught anyone. Thats the problem with some people who think they are the world. Once you take that last trip and are no longer around, what do you have to show for yourself. Who have you helped? What have you shared with any younger so called less of an engineer that would help make the world a better place? I'm guessing nothing because you are so arrogant that you wouldn't share any of your professed exceptional knowledge.

Nevermind this even worth it.

 

[JoeBoone82]

I wouldn't say ME is superior, but as I stated, most of today's P.E. designations where under the ME umbrella.

"A civil engineer is a person who practices civil engineering, one of the many engineering professions. Originally a civil engineer worked on public works projects and was contrasted with the military engineer, who worked on armaments and defenses. Over time, various branches of engineering have become recognized as distinct from civil engineering, including chemical engineering, mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering, while much of military engineering has been absorbed by civil engineering."

Looks like ME was once under the CE "umbrella" as well.

 

[Dleg]

I just read this thread now. Interesting discussion topic. Too bad GT_ME had to muck it up.

I agree that there is a danger to the profesion in splitting it up too much. I recall reading several articles, several years back, by NSPE and NCEES about trying to attract more engineers into licensing. I seem to recall that was one of their main justifications for adding the new specialties - just to get more members.

Also, speaking as someone who graduated as an ME, and moved into the "useless" field of environmental engineering (you can never go back!), I can say, with authority, that there is plenty of stuff in civil that an ME simply does not know, and it isn't that easy to learn. MEs are no better than Civils, no matter how much harder the subjects may seem during school. But then, with all his background in the real world, I figured GT_ME would have realized that by now.

Another interesting subject was the recent (last year?) article by NCEES about requiring more course work beyond the BS in order to qualify for licensing. 5 years seems like the figure they mentioned ... and I can agree to that, especially for civil engineers, whose work covers such a broad range of subjects. Broader than ME.

 

[JohnNevets]

Since this thread is so far off topic already, I figured I'd throw in my take as well.

The most important thing I (and I feel most engineers) got out of my bachelor degree was learning how to be a good problem solver. This starts with the basics of math and science, and evolves all the way to as seniors most folks have open ended design projects. Is this to say that the experience that one gains doing the specifics of there discipline of choice doesn't matter, NO. But I think once you have a good solid basis for solving problems, and analyzing solutions to problems (a bit more difficult and a bit more important), you are much better prepared for what ever job you end up at. Some folks can do this naturally without any formal schooling, and many others have learned to do it with many years of experience, but getting an engineering degree is another way to learn this.

Undergrad schooling gives you basic tools not a finished set of them, your future employer will probably want to "mold" you anyway. We are talking about engineering schools not community colleges and tech schools where the important thing is to put employees for the local companies.

By the way I'm an ME who has been working as a structural, and is about to go into broadcasting, and one of the things that my future employer likes about me is I have an engineering way of looking at things.

Had to have a rant on my last day as a formal engineer ,

John

 

[DVINNY]

WOW. I just now saw this thread.

Great read.

I passed Civil PE and have an ME degree, am I the ultimate smarty fella?