NJ Dual PLS/PE Licensure

[NYCProjectEngineer PE PMP]

Does anybody have experience with dual licensure as PS/PLS and PE? If I passed the PE this last go-round then I want to look into getting PLS/PS licensure too.

 

[NJmike PE]

In NJ you need to first fulfill certain academic requirements for the LS degree.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

@NYCProjectEngineer You have to treat them like two separate credentials completely.  You generally can not use experience that you claimed toward your  PE to toward your LS experience requirements.  You need to look at the requirements for your state for licensure as a LS and then start going through the process.  For me, it's been about a 15 year journey from "hey, I'm an engineer but would like to also be licensed as a surveyor" to "I hope I passed this last test in the process of becoming a dually licensed professional".  It's not going to be quick or easy.

 

[NJmike PE]

I had looked into it about two years ago. The university in NJ which I had attended and received my BSCE provided me their BSLS curriculum and it looked like a minimum of 2 more years of part-time classes before I had satisfied my academic requirements and was eligible to begin accumulating the experience necessary.

 

[miloc]

I had looked into it about two years ago. The university in NJ which I had attended and received my BSCE provided me their BSLS curriculum and it looked like a minimum of 2 more years of part-time classes before I had satisfied my academic requirements and was eligible to begin accumulating the experience necessary.

What university in NJ? Does anyone knows if I can take classes online? 

 

[NJmike PE]

What university in NJ? Does anyone knows if I can take classes online? 

NJIT. I don't believe that they are offered online

 

[miloc]

@NJmike PE Thanks, I 'm a PE in NJ and NY. I sent my PLS application to NY and was told that only 1 yr of my undergrad civil engineering was valid towards the PLS license and that I need 7 years of endorsed LS experience. The experience I have in LS was at the beginning of my career and I already use those years when I applied for the PE. Anyhow, did you start your classes yet? how many credits you have to take and how much is it per credit? Thanks for your input.

 

[NJmike PE]

Anyhow, did you start your classes yet?

No. I didn't decide to go in that direction

 

[Larry]

I took the classes at NJIT....about 10 years ago.  It was a far more flexible program then, with satellite campuses and everything.  As enrollment lessens the online options seemed to be winding down as well.

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

From my experience most of the dual PE/PLS professionals that I know in NJ are older as I believe the process used to be much simpler and/or automatic to become both when you got your PE license. If you decide to pursue this, make sure you take a look at the continuing education requirements so that you know what you are in for once you get both. 

 

[Lady PE]

I am currently going through the process.  After passing the FS and PS in December 2017 and March 2018, I submitted my application to the board.  I am flying blind because no one I know has applied for the PLS license in NJ in the last ten or more years.  The licensed guys I know were grandfathered in before the four-year degree requirement.  One guy did get his license after completing the degree at NJIT, but I don't know him that well.  I ran into him one day and he didn't seem too willing to help when I asked him about the state-specific exam.  He told me to check on the NJSPLS website.  I did and found nothing.  I find literally no hits when using Google to search 'NJ state specific surveying exam'.  Similar searches without the 'NJ' yield plenty of results for other states' exams.

Currently, I am a civil P.E., but have been running many of the survey jobs at my firm, so I need the credentials to go after bigger jobs with public agencies - especially when the PLS in-place retires.  He's like 66 or so.  He pretty much lets me run everything as long I keep him in the loop and consult him on legal issues. 

My checklist says 'Not Applicable' for the line item 'NJ State Specific Exam', but I don't quite trust that means that I don't have to take it.  Other line items have been marked 'Not Applicable' only to be marked 'Complete' later.  So if anyone seeing this post has anything to offer me for the state-specific NJ survey exam, please share.

 

[Larry]

You need to have the degree requirements in order to be considered for an NJ PLS.  The grace period to get a license without a degree ended better than 15 or 20 years ago.  If you have a Civil degree, the NJIT program is perfect for you.  It's exactly what I did.  I think it was 12 classes I had to take and then with that degree was accepted to sit for the exam.  By the time I finished my degree, I already had my PLS in PA and Ohio, so all I needed to take was the State Specific Exam and Law exam.

The reason the checklist says not applicable is because there is no way you could have taken it unless you were already approved to site for the NJ PLS exam.  I always found it ironic that they had that on the application.

As for resources, I don't remember where I got it, but I have a reference manual prepared by Robert Ent, Jr. from May 2006.  It's 750 pages and 19mb, but definitely helpful as a study guide.  I'm certain that if you can't find it, we can figure out a way for me to get it to you  But as I said, if you don't have a surveying degree the Board won't even look at your application.

Good luck.

Larry

 

[Lady PE]

Thanks for your input, Larry.  I am well aware of the degree requirements.  My post did not indicate, but I am currently taking surveying classes.  NJIT's program was not perfect for me, however.  Many of the classes are not available online and the commute would have been too tough on my family and me.  Plus, they looked at my transcript and told me that I'd need like 53 surveying credits and a couple other classes in economics and business management.  There were also labs scheduled for Saturdays between 9 - 2.  No thanks.  I had to try to find another way.

There are a few online programs.  In fact, the NJ Society of Professional Licensed Surveyors (NJSPLS) was promoting the University of Maine online program at their last SurvCon event. 

I plan to get a master's degree, but I'm not quite there.  With no actual "x amount of survey credits" written into the rules, I just decided to apply with my BSCE and the surveying credits I have now.  If they decline, maybe I can get some guidance on how much surveying education would be adequate.  I think it would be silly to require an applicant to get a second bachelor's degree.  I'm sure that is not the SPIRIT intended by the new statute.  They were just trying to assure that people had formal surveying education from a college program.

We'll see.

As for that reference, what is the name of the document?  A quick search of that name does not show me any reference manuals.  Maybe there is a private message feature where I can send you a Dropbox link?

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

Log on to your NCEES account and go to references. They have a guide for PS exam on there, I actually brought a copy to the PE exam with me as a reference for the surveying items on the construction exam. 

 

[Lady PE]

@youngmotivatedengineer  I have already taken and passed the PS exam.  My request was directed at @Larry, since he mentioned a specific reference manual for the NJ state-specific portion.  I did find it on another forum, along with a post from someone saying that the NJSPLS informed him that NJ has eliminated the state-specific exam.  The document is found here:

https://docslide.net/documents/entmanual.html

I am glad I found it.  I know I will read and study it, in case this person's intel is wrong.  Also, there is good information to apply in practice.

 

[Larry]

Good morning Lady PE,

Sorry for the long delay, it's been a busy summer.  53 credits is way too many for someone that already has an Engineering degree,  it's disappointing to hear that's what they're asking from you.  In my day, I felt that NJIT bent over backward to help me get the degree and make my previous classes fill voids.  It's also sad that they've done away with the satellite campus and remote learning.

I'm surprised to hear about the lack of a state specific exam.  That's kind of the most important test for Surveyors.  The FS and PS cover the math and basic aspects, but the State exams are there to check to make sure you understand the specifics of each state, since they vary so much.

Good luck in the application and let me know if I can be of any help.

Larry

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

@youngmotivatedengineer  I have already taken and passed the PS exam.  My request was directed at @Larry, since he mentioned a specific reference manual for the NJ state-specific portion.  I did find it on another forum, along with a post from someone saying that the NJSPLS informed him that NJ has eliminated the state-specific exam.  The document is found here:

https://docslide.net/documents/entmanual.html

I am glad I found it.  I know I will read and study it, in case this person's intel is wrong.  Also, there is good information to apply in practice.

Check directly with the NJPELS, I think the other individual is wrong. The PLS exam is administered in testing center. State specific exam is given the morning of PE exam. You get 2 hours to complete it, and you get to use a wooden pencil. The NJ website shows this state specific exam on the schedule for 2019.