Is it worth it to take the SE exam?

[Bcarvi2]

Hi guys,

I am going back and forth whether or not to take the SE exam and hoped I could get some quality feedback here. A little background info on me...I am a licensed civil engineer in Louisiana. I have designed both bridges and commercial buildings for a small civil/structural consulting firm. Also, I recently passed the CA Seismic and Surveying exams to obtain a license in that state as we do a few projects there. I think that will help me some on the SE since I am now familiar with Seismic where I had absolutely zero knowledge about it before the CA test.  We don't get many earthquakes down here!

I've been weighing the pros and cons of taking this test. A few Pros include: better understanding of my field, gaining more respect from current and future employers by having an SE behind my name, no more tests lingering over my head!, leverage for a higher salary. Some of the Cons: won't get a raise from current employer (likely), time away from family and friends, buying expensive codes/review courses, my wife is having our first child in February and I'm taking the test in April which will be very stressful household!

For those who live in a state where an SE license is not required, what benefits did you gain from passing the test?  Will an SE license be required everywhere in the future?

This board has been very helpful in showing me the amount of time I will need to study. I will likely signup for one of the recommended review courses. Thanks for any and all responses, I look forward to any advice you can offer me!

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I was on board until you said you have a kid on the way. I'd plan on at least waiting until October.

I took the SE exam in-lieu of the PE exam; closest SE state half the country away. It seemed to make the most sense given my diverse structural background and that I wanted to challenge myself. Overall I considered it a great choice and am exceedingly proud I passed it.

The biggest thing I feel you'll find about the SE exam is whether you pass it or not (hopefully you do) you'll gain a much more complete understanding of structural engineering because of it. It makes a fantastic capstone and really helped me turn into (or at least what I hope) a well-rounded structural engineer.

As for the future; I suspect we'll see the SE pop up in more states. Florida tried it recently and I know there's a push by the structural engineering associations out there to make the SE more prevalent in the state boards. I highly doubt you'll look back on the SE and say that wasn't worth it or was a waste of time.

Definitely only attempt it if you can actually fit in the required number of study hours and afford to get all the codes and study texts required. It's going to take some money but not ridiculous amounts; time is the real killer. I'd highly recommend a review course if you'll be having a young child around and need to be efficient in studying.

 

[CyclonePE]

I agree with TME.  I thought I knew structural engineering until I started to study for this test.  Even if I had failed the test what I learned by studying would have made it worth the time.

 

[kevo_55]

I would recommend taking the exam if you are up to it. It is a big commitment, but if you pass you will benefit greatly from it.

I am a bit older than some of you but I was taking the exams back when there was no 2 day SE exam. I took the SE 1 and SE 2 exam. I don't live in a seismic state but my company does work all over the country. So, I decided to take the structural exams. After passing those, I decided to take the civil exam. After that I decided to take the CA surveying & seismic exams. After that, I just decided to fly to CA yet again and take their SE 3 exam.

After every exam that I passed, I received more perks at work, higher pay, more managing, and yadda yadda yadda. 

It is definitely worth it in the long term. 

 

[user 32699]

I agree. I'm also a PE in a non seismic state and have my CA PE and have passed the vertical SE. Even with an incomplete SE it has led to work on projects in CA that would not have been offered to others and a good raise at the end of the year. I also agree that the review of basic structural concepts with a focus on their code applications is invaluable, especially after a few years of experience which allows concepts to be understood from a practical standpoint that just wasn't possible in an undergraduate course.  

 

[smahurin]

I agree with the others that going through the process of studying did help me pick up things that I had never encountered, knew or maybe didn't have a great understand of.  It's also allowed our company to pursue work in at least 1 SE state that we originally couldn't work in (although we did have 2 SE's already that could have gotten comity to pick up their license in that state so I think that probably didn't help the company that much).  I do think certain states will add the SE in the coming years, but I highly doubt that most states will incorporate it in our lifetime, and the ones that do will likely be a slow process.  But it wouldn't surprise me that over the next 20 years to see 5-10 additional states start to adopt certain requirements.  Keep in mind that even many of the states that do have an SE license are only title act states or roster designation states in which you're just rostered differently or you can officially call yourself a Structural Engineer in those states but can realistically do all the design necessary.  To my knowledge there are 2 full practice restriction states (IL, HI) and only 6 partial practice restriction states (AK, CA, NV, OR, UT, WA).  So out 50 states a total of 8 restrict practice... that's a pretty small number.  

I think for people practicing in Non-SE states it really comes down to whether you WANT to take it or not.  It might sound oversimplified, but I just wanted to take it.  Why?  I guess the challenge, the ability to be done with testing forever once passed, the vanity of being an SE I suppose.  All those things contributed, but for a multitude of reasons I guess I just "wanted" to take it.  You can ration it anyway you want, but if its not needed, its really just personal preference.  

 

[user 32699]

To add to that list, GA requires the SE exam for a PE license (to stamp structural plans) for anyone who has not been licensed for 5 years. 

 

[Bcarvi2]

Thanks for the advice guys, I greatly appreciate it!  I'm leaning towards taking it and realize I need to start reading/studying soon if I'm taking it in April. 

 

[Andy Lin]

I totally agree that having an SE is going to help you in your career (in fact, it had helped mine tremendously).

But I have to play devil's advocate here for a second...

...If you are going to take it in April, make sure your wife is on-board!

If she can't accept the fact that you'll be "pretty busy" for a few months and you'll hardly have any time to help her out between January and April, it might cause a lot of grief later on. It might also cause you to not be able to study effectively.

Also, she might say "no prob babe, I can't handle it" right now, but when the reality kicks in, she might feel differently. So make sure you guys explore it together and play out some of the "worst case" scenarios to make sure this stressful period is not going to affect your relationship.

My daughter was born last year and man, what a thrill, and so much work!

If I were in your situation, I seriously wouldn't know what to do either but I would start off by having a serious conversation with my wife.

Hope that makes sense.

Here are some things for you to think about:

• It's recommended that you spend roughly 300+ hours to prepare for the SE - (you can use that number to backtrack roughly how long it's going to take you to study).
  
• Most babies cry a lot -- will you be able to study with a crying baby in the background?
  
• Babies grow up super fast -- I mean, in the beginning, you can see significant changes week-to-week and then later on, month-to-month. Are you OK missing out on a few things in the beginning?
  
• Friends and families will be visiting after the baby is born. You'll have to account for that in your study time.
  
• Your wife (and you) will be exhausted because babies don't sleep continuously for a long time like we do. When they wake up, you have to feed/change diaper/rock...etc. Lack of sleep means you will not be able to study effectively nor efficiently.
  
• You'll be spending time shopping and buying baby stuff before and after the baby is born. Account for that also.
  

There's probably more but you get the gist and the point is that: sometimes we may feel unstoppable and we feel like can really do everything; but the truth is that... we often can't.

I mean, the exam will still be around; you still have years ahead of you to advance your career; but spending time to take care of your first child when he/she is born... you really only get that one chance.

Sorry this probably made it harder for you to make the decision but I just wanted to throw in some reality so you won't be too stressed out later.

 

[David Connor SE]

Bcarvi2,

I think you get the idea on whether or not you should take the exam. You definitely should! My guess is you are fairly young (under 40), and if this is your chosen professional you should strive to accomplish as much as you can. On the consulting side of things, having an SE is almost like having your PhD. Also, you don't know what the future holds with PE/SE license requirements and it would be good to have that worry behind you. If you are 45 years or older it may not make sense to take it if your work is in a non-SE state. You should be able to grandfather in if there are any changes in licensure requirements.  

That being said, you have a baby on the way and I would take TME's advice and wait until October. I would do the following:

1. Only take 1 component at a time (Vertical or Lateral). Consider taking lateral first. That's what I did and actually found it somewhat easier to study for.

2. Since you have bridge experience, you may want to consider taking the bridge exam. For the essay questions you will have 3 questions to answer, instead of the 4 for the buildings essay portion. Plus you will only have 1 code to fumble through in the afternoon, that being AASHTO.

3. The new code standards for the SE exam will come out in November. Wait until than before getting codes together. Once they come out, go ahead and start gathering up the codes. 

4. Go ahead and start studying in November as you gather codes together, but once your baby arrives take that time to enjoy it for a couple months. Hopefully by then you will have all the codes and won't have to worry about doing that.

5. Hopefully by April/May the routines will be settled and the family visits will be done. Then you can really start studying. With taking 1 component at a time, I would assume about 10-15 hours of study per week.    

Good luck!

David Connor, SE, PE

 

[user 32699]

The new code standards for the SE exam will come out in November.

David, interested to know why you think the code cycle will change this spring. many of the codes (ACI 318, ACI 530, IBC) are on 3 year cycles and changed in spring 15. It would follow that they won't change again until spring 18. 

The exception may be AASHTO which changes every two years and is currently 4 years behind. 

Do you have a source on this, or just speculation. I'm just curious because I had planned on waiting until spring to take the lateral portion, but maybe it's better to cram for a few months and give it a shot this fall. I think tomorrow is the registration deadline. 

 

[Lukus]

I chatted online with an NCEES rep earlier this year and I seemed to get a strong indication that the codes would change this Fall.  Also, I don't see AASHTO changing without the ACI changing as AASHTO 7th Edition had major changes to Section 5 Concrete consistent with the changes in ACI 318-14.

 

[user 32699]

That sounds reasonable, I was purely guessing and my chat with NCEES got me nowhere. There were significant changes to AASHTO 2016 interims, more so than the 2014 code I think so it will depend if the interims are included in the update. 

I'll see what happens in November and keep the printer ready.  

 

[David Connor SE]

It's a guess, but they have had the same standards for a while now and most of the codes they reference now have newer editions out. So, that's all I'm going on. 

 

[bassplayer45]

I am in a non-SE state of Indiana. I got it for 1, personal goal set in college, and 2, prestige. I wont lie, I like the idea of having it after my name. Our company is trying hard to get work in Illinois, so we needed one to start poking around. My company was very generous and agreed to pay for all my attempts and all my study material. I also got in writing up front what the raise would be. If you company isn't going to give a raise, I think it is very reasonable to request they pay for the study materials and codes, because at the very least, they can still use those codes at the company for pretty much anything

 

[Phatso86]

i am i  florida and i was debating really hard on whether i should take it. 

for me, it would be absolutely ZERO benefit. literally zero. i do not work for a firm nor plan to. i remember i actually studied for it when i took my civil structural exam like six years ago. i was probably ready then and had the time to study (was unemployed). 

i think im sticking with just my civil PE and masters degree in structural. I call myself a structural engineer because of my graduate degree. you cant reaaly compare a two day exam that takes 300hrs of study (8 weeks) to a degree which takes two years (it actually took me only a single year).

also just got my PE electrical this october, thank goodness. that one helps much more than the SE (for me at least)

 

[Phatso86]

i am i  florida and i was debating really hard on whether i should take it. 

for me, it would be absolutely ZERO benefit. literally zero. i do not work for a firm nor plan to. i remember i actually studied for it when i took my civil structural exam like six years ago. i was probably ready then and had the time to study (was unemployed). 

i think im sticking with just my civil PE and masters degree in structural. I call myself a structural engineer because of my graduate degree. you cant reaaly compare a two day exam that takes 300hrs of study (8 weeks) to a degree which takes two years (it actually took me only a single year).

also just got my PE electrical this october, thank goodness. that one helps much more than the SE (for me at least)

also, at this time. i wouldnt be able to study for this for another two years or so. 

working on obtaining various contractor licenses. thats where the money is

 

[Mithrandir918]

also, at this time. i wouldnt be able to study for this for another two years or so. 

working on obtaining various contractor licenses. thats where the money is

I envy the rest of this country that doesnt have to go through the suffering of this exam.  In Illinois if you work with structures and do not have an SE you have no future.  This test takes such a toll on yourself and your family.  If 300 hrs of study was all it took to guarantee a pass rate it would be a no-brainer.  I would say a majority of people take this test at least 3 time so you are looking at carving out about a year of your life, and this is not being pessimistic, this test is not about how smart you are, its about how well you can take an exam period...... I have experienced Doctors with 35 years of structural experience never pass this exam but then a young engineer with 4 years of experience pass it first time.

Its all about goals.  If you are willing to take the sacrifice and your family is willing to take it along with you then shoot for the moon!

 

[Phatso86]

I envy the rest of this country that doesnt have to go through the suffering of this exam.  In Illinois if you work with structures and do not have an SE you have no future.  This test takes such a toll on yourself and your family.  If 300 hrs of study was all it took to guarantee a pass rate it would be a no-brainer.  I would say a majority of people take this test at least 3 time so you are looking at carving out about a year of your life, and this is not being pessimistic, this test is not about how smart you are, its about how well you can take an exam period...... I have experienced Doctors with 35 years of structural experience never pass this exam but then a young engineer with 4 years of experience pass it first time.

Its all about goals.  If you are willing to take the sacrifice and your family is willing to take it along with you then shoot for the moon!

well remember, a kid in school has a brain that is like a sponge. so easier to grasp. on top of this, they recently experienced test taking and studying.

i dont think its fair to comapre a 24 year old to a 55 year old

i'm thinking that the reason my civil test was so much easier than my power pe test was because i was more than five years younger. i got the concepts but they felt so tricky in my mind. luckily passed first try.

im really debating on at least seeing if i can study a tiny bit and see how well i do with se practice test. i really dont need this test whatsoever, but ive been obsessing lately with just freaking passing it

 

[Phatso86]

well remember, a kid in school has a brain that is like a sponge. so easier to grasp. on top of this, they recently experienced test taking and studying.

i dont think its fair to comapre a 24 year old to a 55 year old

i'm thinking that the reason my civil test was so much easier than my power pe test was because i was more than five years younger. i got the concepts but they felt so tricky in my mind. luckily passed first try.

im really debating on at least seeing if i can study a tiny bit and see how well i do with se practice test. i really dont need this test whatsoever, but ive been obsessing lately with just freaking passing it

holy crap

that's the last time i use my ipad. That took me like 15 minutes to type and sounds like shit. lol