How you did AM/PM October 2013 (All)

[NinjaPanther]

I took civil transportation. Did the School of PE review course.

The morning was pretty straightforward. I had to make one complete guess on a construction problem and a few other educated guesses that I felt good about. For everything else, I feel like I got the right answer. Factoring in careless mistakes, my predicted score falls in a range of 31-39, with 95% confidence.

The afternoon was a bit more difficult. Despite all of my power bars, mental fatigue started to set in about hallway through the test. I had to make 3 complete guesses and maybe 4 educated guesses. There were probably some stupid mistakes that I made due to fatigue. So this one has a predicted score of 26-34, with 95% confidence.

I studied a LOT so if I didn't pass I'm going to quit engineering and apply for a job at mcdonalds.

 

[NJmike PE]

I took civil transportation. Did the School of PE review course.

The morning was pretty straightforward. I had to make one complete guess on a construction problem and a few other educated guesses that I felt good about. For everything else, I feel like I got the right answer. Factoring in careless mistakes, my predicted score falls in a range of 31-39, with 95% confidence.

The afternoon was a bit more difficult. Despite all of my power bars, mental fatigue started to set in about hallway through the test. I had to make 3 complete guesses and maybe 4 educated guesses. There were probably some stupid mistakes that I made due to fatigue. So this one has a predicted score of 26-34, with 95% confidence.

I studied a LOT so if I didn't pass I'm going to quit engineering and apply for a job at mcdonalds.

without discussing it, I know which construction problem you are referring to. That and about two others I am thinking that I got wrong in the morning. I feel strong in saying 35-37 in the morning. I did not take any review classes but I did study consistently 2-3 hrs a night, 4-5 nights a week for 3 months and made sure to tailor my studying AND format of my practice problems to follow the NCEES outline. I believe that helped the most.

Like everyone else, I too thought the afternoon was "out there" with some of the questions. In the end, they were all listed in the NCEES outline, but not what I was expecting if you know what I mean. I took the WR & E afternoon module. my feelings are around the 20-25 range for this half with fatigue also playing a big role.

Either way, 55-62 should be a sufficient passing score.... I hope. :dunno:

 

[NinjaPanther]

Either way, 55-62 should be a sufficient passing score.... I hope. :dunno:

I would think so. The cut score threads seem to confirm this.

 

[NJmike PE]

cut score = :brickwall:

 

[ASG]

Power

AM - know I got a couple wrong but was feeling good.

PM - head a splode.

I don't know why they make this test so damn hard. If everybody who took this test passed the FE, it should be written so the passing rate is closer to 90% than 65%. I could rant more but what are you going to do.

But at the very least you would think there would at least be one textbook/review book that covers all the material you need to know. I took a prep class and there were at least 2 questions on this exam that weren't even in the material we went over.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

Either way, 55-62 should be a sufficient passing score.... I hope. :dunno:

I would think so. The cut score threads seem to confirm this.

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

Power

AM - know I got a couple wrong but was feeling good.

PM - head a splode.

I don't know why they make this test so damn hard. If everybody who took this test passed the FE, it should be written so the passing rate is closer to 90% than 65%. I could rant more but what are you going to do.

But at the very least you would think there would at least be one textbook/review book that covers all the material you need to know. I took a prep class and there were at least 2 questions on this exam that weren't even in the material we went over.

That's like saying Underwriter Laboratories should set their safety standards so 90% of the refrigerators pass...... Is that really what you want?

I don't want them controlling the passing rates - I want them to develop a fair test, set a reasonable passing score and those that pass, pass. And those that don't, need to work harder and try again.

 

[ASG]

That's like saying Underwriter Laboratories should set their safety standards so 90% of the refrigerators pass...... Is that really what you want?

I don't want them controlling the passing rates - I want them to develop a fair test, set a reasonable passing score and those that pass, pass. And those that don't, need to work harder and try again.

I said 90% of those who pass the FE, not 90% of random people off the street. I don't think your comparison is apples to apples. You realize this test is harder to pass (at least in terms of pass rate) than the bar?

The point is what is considered a "fair test." I think being considered a "professional engineer" should be more about having relevant experience and understanding your line of work than being able to pass some test that has about 20% relevance to what I do on a regular basis. I shouldn't have to know as an MEP engineer the same thing that somebody who works for the utility company or for somebody that works for a generator or transformer manufacturer needs to know and they don't need to know what I do. For example (a simple one), in the NCEES sample test there's a question asking what material is not covered in the safety code. I've never used the safety code in my professional life and I don't plan to so why should I care what it covers? And that's not even a technical question.

IMO they should do away with the PE and be more critical of what experience people are using to say they qualify for being a professional in their field than a test that, IMO, is more concerned with you having in depth overall theoretical knowledge than being able to solve a real world problem that might come up in the field.

 

[NinjaPanther]

Either way, 55-62 should be a sufficient passing score.... I hope. :dunno:

I would think so. The cut score threads seem to confirm this.

Don't be hatin'. Cut scores are awesome and you know it.

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

That's like saying Underwriter Laboratories should set their safety standards so 90% of the refrigerators pass...... Is that really what you want?
I don't want them controlling the passing rates - I want them to develop a fair test, set a reasonable passing score and those that pass, pass. And those that don't, need to work harder and try again.

I said 90% of those who pass the FE, not 90% of random people off the street. I don't think your comparison is apples to apples. You realize this test is harder to pass (at least in terms of pass rate) than the bar?

The point is what is considered a "fair test." I think being considered a "professional engineer" should be more about having relevant experience and understanding your line of work than being able to pass some test that has about 20% relevance to what I do on a regular basis. I shouldn't have to know as an MEP engineer the same thing that somebody who works for the utility company or for somebody that works for a generator or transformer manufacturer needs to know and they don't need to know what I do. For example (a simple one), in the NCEES sample test there's a question asking what material is not covered in the safety code. I've never used the safety code in my professional life and I don't plan to so why should I care what it covers? And that's not even a technical question.

IMO they should do away with the PE and be more critical of what experience people are using to say they qualify for being a professional in their field than a test that, IMO, is more concerned with you having in depth overall theoretical knowledge than being able to solve a real world problem that might come up in the field.

Sounds like you'd be more happy in canada - I think that's what they do. Only one exam and then an apprenticeship.........

 

[palvarez83]

^^^If they only tested how good you were at doing your job, then 99% of people would pass! That is not the point! By that rationale, if you were to switch jobs/industries, you should loose your PE license because you have not proven you are competent outside of your specific field! For the electrical PE, it is the only discipline for which they eliminated the breadth section. You have Power AM and Power PM.... no more computer or electronics questions. They have already done you a tremendous favor in that regard. What more could you ask for? They can't practically individualize a test for everyone.

Most engineers do not know everything they run into on a daily basis of the top of their head... a non-licensed, non-degreed designer can handle that. Even if you are not intimately familiar with a code, you should be able to know how to navigate it and find information using the index and reasonably be able to apply it. NCEES wasn't throwing you a curve ball. They list the NESC as one of the references on their power exam specifications. The more useful stuff out of that code is summarized in the "Power Reference Manual."

 

[knight1fox3]

^ agreed! lusone:

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

IMO they should do away with the PE and be more critical of what experience people are using to say they qualify for being a professional in their field

Well that sure sounds completely objective and a 'fair test.' :deadhorse:

 

[PSU09Vet]

I took civil transportation. Did the School of PE review course.

The morning was pretty straightforward. I had to make one complete guess on a construction problem and a few other educated guesses that I felt good about. For everything else, I feel like I got the right answer. Factoring in careless mistakes, my predicted score falls in a range of 31-39, with 95% confidence.

The afternoon was a bit more difficult. Despite all of my power bars, mental fatigue started to set in about hallway through the test. I had to make 3 complete guesses and maybe 4 educated guesses. There were probably some stupid mistakes that I made due to fatigue. So this one has a predicted score of 26-34, with 95% confidence.

I studied a LOT so if I didn't pass I'm going to quit engineering and apply for a job at mcdonalds.

IMO there is a remote chance you over-studied. Every piece of advice I received was to just study NCEES materials, that the school of PE and other review courses might overload you. That being said I hope for your sake you were able to pass, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I agree with your assessment. I took Civil/Transportation. I feel like there was more emphasis on a topic I wasn't as prepared for. I guess I'll be safe and not say which topic, but it is what it is.

I feel like there's 10 questions in the morning and 10 in the afternoon where 5 were probably I didn't know my AH from my elbow and I was probably not even in the same ballpark, and 5 where probably in the ballpark but the wrong part of the field. We'll see. I feel 90% confident I answered 60 correctly overall, +/- 5.

As embarrassing as it is, I'm positive I screwed up the very first question that a college freshman could have probably gotten right but I nailed the structural related questions. A whiff on a gimme and a bullseye on something I shouldn't know as much about. I can't explain that one ... :bag:

 

[CU07]

That's like saying Underwriter Laboratories should set their safety standards so 90% of the refrigerators pass...... Is that really what you want?

I don't want them controlling the passing rates - I want them to develop a fair test, set a reasonable passing score and those that pass, pass. And those that don't, need to work harder and try again.

I said 90% of those who pass the FE, not 90% of random people off the street. I don't think your comparison is apples to apples. You realize this test is harder to pass (at least in terms of pass rate) than the bar?

You know that the FE and the PE are designed to test different qualities, right? NCEES sets the FE cut score at what a minimally competent intern engineer should know right out of college. It tests fundamental knowledge that someone with maybe a C average in school should have, someone you might not even want to hire at your company. The PE is the exam that allows engineers to put people's health and safety on the line. I don't want 90% of those minimally competent students becoming licensed unless they have sufficient working knowledge of design principles and codes. It's possible that everyone who passes the FE may be able to pass the PE, but it shouldn't be a given. The PE is rightfully a more difficult exam.

 

[jgusa]

ME - HVAC/R

Felt like the morning went pretty well, but the afternoon was a different story.

Now we wait.

 

[NinjaPanther]

I took civil transportation. Did the School of PE review course.

The morning was pretty straightforward. I had to make one complete guess on a construction problem and a few other educated guesses that I felt good about. For everything else, I feel like I got the right answer. Factoring in careless mistakes, my predicted score falls in a range of 31-39, with 95% confidence.

The afternoon was a bit more difficult. Despite all of my power bars, mental fatigue started to set in about hallway through the test. I had to make 3 complete guesses and maybe 4 educated guesses. There were probably some stupid mistakes that I made due to fatigue. So this one has a predicted score of 26-34, with 95% confidence.

I studied a LOT so if I didn't pass I'm going to quit engineering and apply for a job at mcdonalds.

IMO there is a remote chance you over-studied. Every piece of advice I received was to just study NCEES materials, that the school of PE and other review courses might overload you. That being said I hope for your sake you were able to pass, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Now you've got me worried. I had never even considered the possibility of overstudying. :O

 

[engrstructural11]

I took civil transportation. Did the School of PE review course.

The morning was pretty straightforward. I had to make one complete guess on a construction problem and a few other educated guesses that I felt good about. For everything else, I feel like I got the right answer. Factoring in careless mistakes, my predicted score falls in a range of 31-39, with 95% confidence.

The afternoon was a bit more difficult. Despite all of my power bars, mental fatigue started to set in about hallway through the test. I had to make 3 complete guesses and maybe 4 educated guesses. There were probably some stupid mistakes that I made due to fatigue. So this one has a predicted score of 26-34, with 95% confidence.

I studied a LOT so if I didn't pass I'm going to quit engineering and apply for a job at mcdonalds.

IMO there is a remote chance you over-studied. Every piece of advice I received was to just study NCEES materials, that the school of PE and other review courses might overload you. That being said I hope for your sake you were able to pass, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I agree with your assessment. I took Civil/Transportation. I feel like there was more emphasis on a topic I wasn't as prepared for. I guess I'll be safe and not say which topic, but it is what it is.

I feel like there's 10 questions in the morning and 10 in the afternoon where 5 were probably I didn't know my AH from my elbow and I was probably not even in the same ballpark, and 5 where probably in the ballpark but the wrong part of the field. We'll see. I feel 90% confident I answered 60 correctly overall, +/- 5.

As embarrassing as it is, I'm positive I screwed up the very first question that a college freshman could have probably gotten right but I nailed the structural related questions. A whiff on a gimme and a bullseye on something I shouldn't know as much about. I can't explain that one ... :bag:

I'm not so sure it is possible to "overstudy", at least not for me. You could make the argument that your breadth of studied material is too large and you are focusing on materials that most likely wouldn't be covered on the exam and are sacrificing studying more intensely items that will likely be on the test, to that I would agree. I wish I would have studied the codes longer than I did although I still was able to find most things. The key on some problems are understanding the caveats or exceptions in codes in certain sections. It really sucks to try to learn something during the test.

Along the same lines though, with some of the "out of left field" questions that the afternoon Structural contained, I'm not so sure any topic is out of bounds. Generally speaking for studying, more emphasis should be put on studying the codes that will be referenced on the test, versus doing problem after problem in the ppi manual. For design, I would focus on a more broad based approach of knowing how to do a wide range of basic types of problems focusing on the easy to intermediate difficulty. Skip the difficult ones, as you most likely will not be tested on those, as they take too long on the test.

 

[PSU09Vet]

I took civil transportation. Did the School of PE review course.

The morning was pretty straightforward. I had to make one complete guess on a construction problem and a few other educated guesses that I felt good about. For everything else, I feel like I got the right answer. Factoring in careless mistakes, my predicted score falls in a range of 31-39, with 95% confidence.

The afternoon was a bit more difficult. Despite all of my power bars, mental fatigue started to set in about hallway through the test. I had to make 3 complete guesses and maybe 4 educated guesses. There were probably some stupid mistakes that I made due to fatigue. So this one has a predicted score of 26-34, with 95% confidence.

I studied a LOT so if I didn't pass I'm going to quit engineering and apply for a job at mcdonalds.

IMO there is a remote chance you over-studied. Every piece of advice I received was to just study NCEES materials, that the school of PE and other review courses might overload you. That being said I hope for your sake you were able to pass, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Now you've got me worried. I had never even considered the possibility of overstudying. :O

I really wouldn't worry about it. As long as you feel good about the sections of your references and you were capable of opening up the right part and use the right equation(s), you'll be fine. I just know I personally would have been overwhelmed if I'd taken classes and ordered extra books and etc.

We all just have to think positive! :waiting:

 

[engrstructural11]

For example, and I am not saying whether this was or wasn't on the test, but if you were asked to design per NDS the allowable bending stress of a dimensional lumber piece, if you aren't familiar with the code adjustment factors, (i.e, Shape factor, load duration factor, repetitive member factor, etc.), you can guarantee that some of the multiply choice answers will be with those factors excluded (or included). You will think you got it right simply by obtaining an answer listed because you didn't know there was a factor you needed to multiply it by to get to the true answer. Gotta know the codes WELL.