Hi everyone, I just graduated with my bachelor's degree this May and have been offered an entry level Civil Engineering position with my city government. While this is certainly great news in this economy, I am a bit apprehensive about taking the job. It would be great if you guys can give me some advice. It's a design job but I would like to get into construction management. Also, how is working in the public sector vs private? My starting salary will be lower than what is offered by private companies, so will I catch up later on?
First Job - Civil Engineer
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My husband and I are both engineers. I work in the private sector, and my husband works for the government. Each has it's advantages. He gets to work an "alternative work schedule" meaning he works 9 hr/day and gets every other Friday off. He also is encouraged to telework up to one day per week. He never has to stay late at the office because of a deadline, or bring work home with him on the weekends. And he has great job security.
I don't know if you'd ever "catch up" to what you could be making in the private sector. In my experience, the private sector is generally a little higher and has the potential to be much higher as you move up, especially if you get to the point where you own your own firm. With government jobs there is an upper threshold on what you can make (the pay scales should be public and you may be able to find them online to see what the potential would be). But the flip side is that with a government job you have job security as well as a program set up for raises/cost of living adjustments. I went 2 years without a raise, but I know some firms that actually had a pay cut.
Is salary the only thing keeping you from accepting this job? Try to look at it from a total benefits perspective. What is the retirement match? Is there a pension? How much do you have to pay for healthcare? How many vacation days/holidays would you receive?
The reality is that in this economy, a steady job that will give you experience in your field as well as health insurance is a great thing. You certainly don't have to commit to a life of working for the government and I'm sure a lot of firms will see the benefit of your experience. Have you applied to CM firms? What has your response been from them?
Thank you so much for your input IL-SE, I really appreciate it. The benefits your husband receive from his job sounds really nice, and of course job security is very important. For my position, I know that they have really good medical and retirement benefits, with a good pension system. I think that the number of days off is very generous as well.
For me, I feel the downside is that since I am so young and just starting out, this is the time I should be working crazy long hours and learning a lot in a demanding work environment. I'm not saying that government work will not be challenging, but just maybe I would like to see how I do with strict deadlines that require OT.
My situation is a bit complicated. I just started a Mandarin language program in Taiwan for 6 weeks because I got tired of sitting around at home waiting for calls for a job. However, literally the day after I got here, I received a call from a private firm about an interview. It sucks they are not able to wait until I come home in 6 weeks. Two days after that I found out I got the city job, and they want me to start as soon as I come back from Taiwan. In a way, I feel that I don't want to pass up a job offer. This is my first one! During the summer I was not able to really interview with any companies because I couldn't find any that were hiring. It would just suck if I miss out on more job opportunities because I took a job "too early."
jeb6294
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I don't know where you are, but back home there are registered engineers who used to work at the company I did who are currently working at Wal-Mart and anything that shows up including CAD jobs. If you've got an offer, I'd suggest you take it.
I worked at a County Engineers office for a while and at the very least it'll be a good way to get some experience and get some contacts in the private side if you decide to look elsewhere. After about 5 years, I actually went to work for one of the A-E companies that I had dealt with a lot while I was with the county. That company has since gone down the crapper and I am back with the Corps of Engineers, but working at the county is what got me that job.
I worked at a County Engineers office for a while and at the very least it'll be a good way to get some experience and get some contacts in the private side if you decide to look elsewhere. After about 5 years, I actually went to work for one of the A-E companies that I had dealt with a lot while I was with the county. That company has since gone down the crapper and I am back with the Corps of Engineers, but working at the county is what got me that job.
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picusld
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While the salary may not be as high in government work, the total compensation package will just about always be higher than in the private industry.
At least in the northeast and for the feds.
As far as stability, all government jobs are not equal.
I live in Michigan. Some government jobs here are funded by property taxes, which are dropping. Others are funded by utility fees, which are staying relatively constant. The difference in stability is immense.
Although, that department is probably doing OK if they are hiring somebody right now.
I live in Michigan. Some government jobs here are funded by property taxes, which are dropping. Others are funded by utility fees, which are staying relatively constant. The difference in stability is immense.
Although, that department is probably doing OK if they are hiring somebody right now.
HerrKaLeun
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When you say your starting salary will be lower than in private.. you only can compare what other salaries you have been OFFERED. Of course, there always will be a job that pays more. but if that isn't offered to you the comparison s pointless.
For government you also can see on their websites (or ask them) what the pay steps and typical promotions are. I work for a city and we have 5 step increases in each level, longevity and promotions. until las tyear we also received about 3% annual cost of living increases. Obviously benefits are good. I also get plenty of paid OT. So if you are willing to work more, you may be able to. If they don't let you work OT, you can open your own business and work on evenings as long as there is no conflict of interest. Private employers may not like that at all, but in government this isn't a problem (unless you work for a company that you hire for your government job project
I know my maximum pay won't be as much as it could be in private, but it likely is more than for many in private industry right now. 4.5 years ago I started out as hourly engineer (less pay, no benefits), then they created a permanent position for me 3.25 years ago. I started as engineer 1, and now I'm engineer 3 already (to give you perspective, some people retire here as engineer 3 after 30 years, and engineer 4 is the highest before principal engineer). so you have a real chance to make a career and make reasonably more than your salary they offered you now. You also may be able to negotiate it, depending on what it was written out. For us the positions typically are advertised as "engineer 1-3"and then depending on previous experience the people may be hired as engineer 2, step 2 or so instead of engineer 1 step 1.
As for the company that called you for the interview, this may mean nothing, especially if they weren't able to wait for you while you are out of the country educating yourself on your own dime. That government agency were willing to wait for you - go figure! They may call 15-20 people for interviews knowing no everyone will show.
If that is your only concrete offer, take it. Give it a chance and you will be able to learn a lot. they will let you manage projects as soon as they think you can handle them. you also need to consider they pay some % in pension fund, pay probably all your health insurance etc. A $ 50K job can be worth more than a $ 60K job in private. You always can walk away in 2-3 years if you don't like it.
Many people work with me that worked for consulting firms before. They all say that they had a fixed salary but had to work crazy hours. They only got OT pay if they had more than 40 billable hours a week... which isn't realistic. Here i may get paid a little less, but i get paid for every hour OT. As engineer 2 I still got 150% OT pay, now as engineer 3 I get straight pay for OT. This really is better than what you get in private industry.
BTW: I'm not goofing off at work right now as the stereotype may suggest, I'm off studying for PE
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Why is a registered engineer working at walmart, sounds like they are unwilling to move out of their depressed area. If engineers are having to scrounge for cad work then the economy in your area is tanked and dead and its time to leave if your out of work. Even depressed areas are going to have a few full time engineers (at least one) but if your not that guy then guess what time to move on. I never understood why engineers would ever put in an application for wal mart or wait tables, I guess you could apply for sect 8 housing and get on various gov assitance programs and maybe go back to school for free since you will have time to apply for money since wal mart does not want full time people because then they have to pay benifits.
Work at wal mart long enough to save for a plane ticket or gas money to get out of dodge.
If you can get design experience I would take it, it seems like now days nothing new is really being done in the USA , most of the engineering work I see being done is stick picker work, no one is designing and building new refinerys, power plants, etc. There might be some cool stuff going on in DARPA or defense contractors but even that I dont hear about alot going on.
jeb6294
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Please enlighten us oh wise one as to where these Engineering job offers are being tossed out like free Gov't cheese. Or perhaps you can explain to these guys, and his wife and kids by the way, that they should just pick up and move from the place where they have been living for years. Must be nice living there in Neverland.
HerrKaLeun
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there may be personal reasons (kids go to school there int heir last year, spouse has a good job) or the type of engineering and specific experience isn't good for new jobs. someone could have reviewed plans for 30 years as PE (like as reviewer for permits). After being laid off that is not much design experience.
they also may be close to retirement age and not 1005 up to speed on computers (and this just may be perceived) and no employer will hire them if they cna get someone who is 30 years old.
So I wouldn't be so judgmental. Of course, like in any profession, there are lazy ones. but they typically don't work at all. working at Walmart shows they are willing to do whatever it takes to not live on welfare.
I live in an "Engineering City" - Houston. Have a P.E., 10 years experience in both government and industry, and have been "out" for 10 months since my last job. I've had a grand total of 2 interviews since that time. My old company just had another round of layoffs last week.
There is no place to run... no place to hide... in this economy.
UNLESS... of course, you are willing to think outside the box. America isn't the only country in the world. Don't let a false sense of patriotism stand in the way of a better life.
It ain't easy, and work visas are not easy or cheap to come by, but relocating abroad may be the best bet.
We leave in January.
HerrKaLeun
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May I ask where you are going to?
One of the (many) reasons for me to come to the US was because the labor market in Germany was so retarded (and still is) back then. Unemployment was high and so many weird rules didn't allow you to work when you were not in a special group. Like the unemployment agency would co-pay your salary when you got hired. But because I didn't get unemployment benefits coming from school, the companies wouldn't get that for me and would hire someone who was eligible for that co-payment. And all such BS. Unemployment rate in my area was 25% at that time. the only real job interviews were 400 miles away (which is across the country in Germany) and then my wife would have had a harder time finding a job... when I came to the US it was like paradise. Many job interviews from places less than 20 miles away. That was 2005. Of course, now it is harder to find a job. But I still think it is not so bad in the US because the labor market is not so regulated.
Based in Australia with projects across Asia. Getting the VISA was no picnic (or cheap), the Aussies are tough - so... admittedly, it's not an option for everyone.
FLBuff PE
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Yep my thoughts exactly, I was not going to say it becusae the condesention was being laid on so thick directed at me. My posts will get farther and fewer between as I did not expect such behavior from fellow engineers.
BTW I have always wondered what these degreed professional engineers have to prove by applying at wal mart. "working at wal mart at least shows they are willing to work", show who? and why does it matter? As long as you have enough money to get out of dodge thats all that matters, unless your uncle louie who thinks you can go to the polaris snowmachine store and buy a new sled on pricipal wants to give you a free room to stay in then who cares.
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picusld
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