Easiest State to pass PE EXam in?

[navyasw02]

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

I give up... you've got it all figured out and you see this as an argument. I've no interest in arguing; I was just trying to help you see another perspective.

I appreciate your perspective and discussion, but when you start criticizing the semantics of a metaphor it comes across like you're trying to argue pointlessly.

 

[Slugger926]

I think some states easier than others in terms of their passing score which depends on the demand of the state for registered Engineers vs. the number of examinees every year but anyways this difference is very small 1-2% So I second the opinion if you study little harder you will pass the exam with any state.

That's a pretty bold statement. Do you have any proof that this is done?

Here's what ncees says on their website:

NCEES scores each exam with no predetermined percentage of examinees that should pass or fail. All exams are scored the same way.

Do states determine the cut score or NCEES?

I agree with the poster a few above who recommended reducing the fees instead. As active duty myself, I dont think it's fair to lower the standard that is set for the exam just because of military service. However, I'd love to have the impact on my wallet be a little less for a license that I dont need for my military career. I added it all up and so far I'm in for about $730 between exam fees, study materials, and a hotel for the night before.

NCEES does it statistically along with help of a Cut Score Panel consisting of PE's in that field supplied by the appropriate engineering society.

 

[ironman]

Military friendly state Georgia! It is.
They give you extra 5 points to your score. If you are eligible for veteran's preference points.

Join the military and have yourself ship to war zone for at least 90 days.

http://sos.georgia.gov/plb/faqs/09%20faqs.htm#Q. How does the NCEES

Wow that has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, why should military experience excuse you from not knowing your stuff if your going to call yourself a professional engineer. I could see having the fee waived for veterans or something like that, but if you want to be a PE you ougth to know your shit and a 65 is not knowing your shit. Texas had some deal like this where at one point you could get a PE based soley on experience and no exam but you can not transfer your PE to any other state, well maybe to Georgia lol.

 

[ironman]

so in Georgia they basically say that veterans are not as smart and need a 5 score head start? :withstupid:
the test is about testing if someone is fit to make important decisions and designs. There is no rewarding of anything else than knowledge and ability...

what about nurses, cops, teachers... that all serve their country? Or engineers in general, where would the country be without engineers? Why not give everyone a 5 score advantage?

Preferential treatment is the worst form of discrimination... it also doesn't help the veteran. Since every veteran who is a PE won't get the same respect because everyone thinks he wouldn't have passed without the 5 scores.

I hope you are kidding. I cannot believe somebody trully think in that way. While I do not agree with the 5 point buffer it is also true that if someone can be good enough to take a weapon and defend our country, he/she must be good enough to receive some benefits out of it. If that benefit is a 5 points head start in the PE test so be it. Who am I to go against that? Who are you?

About the test, IMHO, it is just a measure of mental endurance and there is a lot of luck involved. I would like to know how many of us, that already passed, will be willing to give a 100% guarantee that they will pass it again if they have to take it again.

More than that, How many of the Gods at the NCEES Mountain would pass the test if they have to take it. It is very easy when you have the answers...is not it?

I have met good engineers that were not able to pass the PE and morons who were able to pass it. Five points do not make a difference.

Thats because your definition of good and moron is subjective and likely based 99.9% on personality issues not on technical competence. The PE is a purely objective measurement and thats why its used. I have known "good" engineers that can get the day to day engineering stuff done but when it comes to complex design they fold, I would call someone like that a glorified designer not an engineer. Just becasue engineers have to do mundane things to put food on the table does not mean that is the esense of our profession. There is alot of balony in our profession (as there is in any profession) but just becasue you are good at the bolony which is likely even 80-90% of someones time does not make you a good engineer. I have my doubts about some on this site considering how emotional they get over things and yet claim to be engineers or technical people yet act like a woman on her period.

 

[ironman]

Giving away points is getting something free without it being earned. Having different testing conditions still requires people to earn their passing score. That's the difference.

OK... now we're getting somewhere. This has nothing to do with "earning [a] passing score". Each and every state in the union is responsible for their own licensing of professionals. There is *no* national interest in licensing PEs (at least not yet) and so each and every state is free to decide how they want to manage the process. PEs are little different than Massage Therapists in many states.

Each and every state uses some combination of education, experience, and examination for licensing PEs. Georgia has chosen to let some experience offset some examination. If you consider this "lowering the standard" and you live in Georgia, write your legislature and let them know.

Have you read the other thread? Do you think there's a big difference between a 65 tester and a 70 tester?

No, I dont think there's much difference between a 65 tester and a 70, but if there wasn't a difference, why is the 70 the minimum? The Olympic committee doesn't take 5 seconds off the Jamaican bobsled team's time. Is there a difference between a team that comes in 32nd vs the team that comes in 31st? Neither is going to medal. Now if taking 5 seconds off the time means that they'll get on the podium, then that's a problem. In this case, we're letting guys stand on the podium that wouldn't necessarily be there.

If thats the case why dont they graduate engineers with a 1.0 GPA after all its only 1 point between 1 and 2 LOL. Seriously your handle suggests your in the military so you should know about standards and testing.

 

[ironman]

I think the answer to the original question is: Alaska. Go there and take the exam, it is way easy up there.

Alaska is actually one of the harder states to get your PE in. Your experience has to be in the specific disipline you are testing for and you have to take an arctic engineering class regardless of which test you sit for. They probably ought to have the seismic exams here for civils as well but we dont have the infrastructure of cali.

 

[IlPadrino]

If thats the case why dont they graduate engineers with a 1.0 GPA after all its only 1 point between 1 and 2 LOL.

I hope you were drinking when you wrote this (LOL!) because if you think 65 is to 70 as 1.0 is to 2.0 then you need to retake some 6th Grade math.

 

[benbo]

If thats the case why dont they graduate engineers with a 1.0 GPA after all its only 1 point between 1 and 2 LOL.

I hope you were drinking when you wrote this (LOL!) because if you think 65 is to 70 as 1.0 is to 2.0 then you need to retake some 6th Grade math.

Maybe they teach this in his "Advanced Engineering Math" course.

 

[navyasw02]

If thats the case why dont they graduate engineers with a 1.0 GPA after all its only 1 point between 1 and 2 LOL.

I hope you were drinking when you wrote this (LOL!) because if you think 65 is to 70 as 1.0 is to 2.0 then you need to retake some 6th Grade math.

Maybe they teach this in his "Advanced Engineering Math" course.

I'm wondering if he even went to school with his functional math skills, poor spelling, and awful grammar.

 

[benbo]

I'm wondering if he even went to school with his functional math skills, poor spelling, and awful grammar.

Shockingly, he passed the PE exam. A fact which in itself makes me question the validiity of the test.

Seriously, rppearso (aka ironhead) may very well be good at math or chemical engineering. His grammar and spelling on a message board, atrocious as they are, really don't matter much as long as he can improve it for professional interactions. But some of his questionable ideas, and his obsession with "fatty pay" get old very quickly.

 

[Paul S]

Alaska is actually one of the harder states to get your PE in. Your experience has to be in the specific disipline you are testing for and you have to take an arctic engineering class regardless of which test you sit for. They probably ought to have the seismic exams here for civils as well but we dont have the infrastructure of cali.

Please tell us about the arctic engineering class you took.

 

[ironman]

I'm wondering if he even went to school with his functional math skills, poor spelling, and awful grammar.

Shockingly, he passed the PE exam. A fact which in itself makes me question the validiity of the test.

Seriously, rppearso (aka ironhead) may very well be good at math or chemical engineering. His grammar and spelling on a message board, atrocious as they are, really don't matter much as long as he can improve it for professional interactions. But some of his questionable ideas, and his obsession with "fatty pay" get old very quickly.

I have not once brought up fatty pay in this thread or even in a while, because your right going on and on about one topic is boring. seriously if you cant get at least a 70 on the PE you have no buisness having the title, considering they throw out questions to modify scores in the first place. And actually its not to far off from saying a 1.0 is the same thing as a 2.0 because a 65 is functionally a D so if 65 is the same as a 70 then they should pass everyone thought with a D average (we could make it a 1.5 if that makes you feel better). So the cut score on the PE is no different than on a university exam, a C average. This is similar to the chineese and indians they import on H1 visas with "engineering" degrees who dont know what the hell they are doing because their degree programs are a sham. If you dont have hard ridgid standards then pretty soon you dont know who is really an engineer and who is a poser that can talk louder than others but is functionally retarded (people with degrees from questionable universities or 65's on PE exams).

 

[ironman]

I'm wondering if he even went to school with his functional math skills, poor spelling, and awful grammar.

Shockingly, he passed the PE exam. A fact which in itself makes me question the validiity of the test.

Seriously, rppearso (aka ironhead) may very well be good at math or chemical engineering. His grammar and spelling on a message board, atrocious as they are, really don't matter much as long as he can improve it for professional interactions. But some of his questionable ideas, and his obsession with "fatty pay" get old very quickly.

Maybe you should bring this up to the board, if you think the exam is a piece of cake that anyone can pass and that you think it should be more rigorus. I think they will disagree with you since the first time fail rate is non trivial. You will probably need to talk to someone after I get my masters in electrical as well, since if I get a masters then it must have been a piece of cake LOL.

Just because you disagree with someone politically does not have any bering on their engineering skills (because this is not about grammer, this is about my opinions clashing with others) becasue only tool bags derail discussions to micro analyze spelling and grammer. I know people that correct other peoples speach and no one will converse with them because its anti social behavior.

 

[ironman]

Alaska is actually one of the harder states to get your PE in. Your experience has to be in the specific disipline you are testing for and you have to take an arctic engineering class regardless of which test you sit for. They probably ought to have the seismic exams here for civils as well but we dont have the infrastructure of cali.

Please tell us about the arctic engineering class you took.

Send me a PM.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

This is similar to the chineese and indians they import on H1 visas with "engineering" degrees who dont know what the hell they are doing because their degree programs are a sham. If you dont have hard ridgid standards then pretty soon you dont know who is really an engineer and who is a poser that can talk louder than others but is functionally retarded (people with degrees from questionable universities or 65's on PE exams).

Generalizing people on a visa as not being educated enough is pretty offending. India and China have some very good schools rivaling the top US schools. Obviously they also have bad schools. But the US also has many more questionable schools (i.e. University of Phoenix) that give out worthless degrees to anyone. But we wouldn't say all US engineers are bad because of that.

Among all the OECD countries the US doesn't have best average education system and is dropping even further. However, some of the best schools are in the US.

Many of the engineers, that come on a visa that you despise so much, attend graduate school in the US and get their MS and PhD degrees from the top US schools. So their fundamental education cannot have been that bad.

 

[benbo]

Just because you disagree with someone politically does not have any bering on their engineering skills (because this is not about grammer, this is about my opinions clashing with others) becasue only tool bags derail discussions to micro analyze spelling and grammer.

I have no idea if I agree with you politically or not because I don't bother to read the rambling blather you post. But if you think anybody has to "micro analyze" your posts to see that they contain about the worst grammar and spelling anywhere on this site (or probably most any other site on the web) you have an amazing lack of self awareness. It is almost painful to read.

Also, it is not your political point of view that many find offensive, but your positions on moral matters. You know what we're talking about rppearso.

 

[ironman]

This is similar to the chineese and indians they import on H1 visas with "engineering" degrees who dont know what the hell they are doing because their degree programs are a sham. If you dont have hard ridgid standards then pretty soon you dont know who is really an engineer and who is a poser that can talk louder than others but is functionally retarded (people with degrees from questionable universities or 65's on PE exams).

Generalizing people on a visa as not being educated enough is pretty offending. India and China have some very good schools rivaling the top US schools. Obviously they also have bad schools. But the US also has many more questionable schools (i.e. University of Phoenix) that give out worthless degrees to anyone. But we wouldn't say all US engineers are bad because of that.

Among all the OECD countries the US doesn't have best average education system and is dropping even further. However, some of the best schools are in the US.

Many of the engineers, that come on a visa that you despise so much, attend graduate school in the US and get their MS and PhD degrees from the top US schools. So their fundamental education cannot have been that bad.

I have worked with people who have over seas degrees and PhDs from the US and when it came down to core thermo design work they were not much help, I would think a PhD would be busting out PDE's to solve equations but thats not what was happening. As far as Indian and Chineese schools it is offensive but its the truth, China has no good schools I have heard of that rival top notch US schools and their academic credibility as a nation is weak (heck they were asking companies to turn over proprietary designs and technology as part of doing buisenss in china becasue they are too inept to do anything orginal themselves), India does a little better but still no where on par with the top notch US schools. I do have to say there are some indians who know what they are doing (I have never worked with them lol) but per capita they are non existant and the chineese have none (the ones that are smart come to the US and get US degrees). I agree the US is going down the toilet as far as quality individuals and engineers etc but thats becasue I believe the bill rate is getting so marginal that these fields cant attract the best and brightest becasue of the reasons I mentioned above of which H1 visa workers is part of the problem. What top notch US kid wants to compete with an indian who got their degree out of a cracker jack box who is willing to work for 10-20$/hr? Why not use that talent to go work for goldman schachs. University of phoenix is kind of a red herring in my opinion.

And its not an ethnic issue, I had a VERY intellegent chineese decendant professor that taught P chem in college but guess what his degrees were from the US, so no problems. I have a good friend I work with from Tunisia, again degrees from the US. Europe has good schools too but india and china we need to close the doors tight and calk around them, let them sink or swim on their own merit, if for no other reason than I dont think we should have to compete with them as it drives our own quality of life down. IF they are so great let them develop their own industry with out western help and technology (of course we have already held their hand through much of their industrial revolution giving them a huge leg up compared to what we had during ours).

The political correctness is going to sink this nation, call a spade a spade, the chineese are worthless as well as the indians and are the greatest national security risk to our nation, like a parasite.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

@ ironman: if the Chinese are so worthless... how come that the mighty US need to borrow money from them just to get by on a day to day base?

Here in WI I don't see any H1 visa engineers (if they are other ethnicity they are born here, or have a green card). I'm myself German on greencard and I don't work for less money than everybody else (still too little, though. The mediocre designs I see are from US born white people that call themselves "designer"and don't have an engineering degree, or non in the field they work in (i.e. architectural engineering degree is doing mechanical engineering design work).

You are correct that engineering rates are too low and Wall Street jobs pay more and take brains away. But that is because our industry now is based on financing schemes and not on actually doing anything productive. But that is our own fault, not the Chinese. Getting their best people into our country is beneficial. If a company hires mediocre people, that is their own fault (whether US or Chinese). i believe the H1 visa is more for interns.. not much damage done with an intern who doesn't know much. that is normal. when the company let's that $ 10-$ 20 guy do higher-paid work - that is their problem and the company is responsible for the outcome.

China and India will kick our butt... it will be less painful if we adapt and don't seal the doors.

 

[ironman]

@ ironman: if the Chinese are so worthless... how come that the mighty US need to borrow money from them just to get by on a day to day base?
Here in WI I don't see any H1 visa engineers (if they are other ethnicity they are born here, or have a green card). I'm myself German on greencard and I don't work for less money than everybody else (still too little, though. The mediocre designs I see are from US born white people that call themselves "designer"and don't have an engineering degree, or non in the field they work in (i.e. architectural engineering degree is doing mechanical engineering design work).

You are correct that engineering rates are too low and Wall Street jobs pay more and take brains away. But that is because our industry now is based on financing schemes and not on actually doing anything productive. But that is our own fault, not the Chinese. Getting their best people into our country is beneficial. If a company hires mediocre people, that is their own fault (whether US or Chinese). i believe the H1 visa is more for interns.. not much damage done with an intern who doesn't know much. that is normal. when the company let's that $ 10-$ 20 guy do higher-paid work - that is their problem and the company is responsible for the outcome.

China and India will kick our butt... it will be less painful if we adapt and don't seal the doors.

I do agree with you that companies hire "designers" who have had a 2 week auto cad course and thoes can be H1 or US citizens so thats an issue all its own that I have put comments in for an AELS open forum. So I agree there are significant domestic issues to engineering as well. However, china would not be where they are without the know how from american or western countries technology, they simply are a sub par nation that relys on their cheap labor to entice greedy CEO's. If we told them screw you we are not paying the debt and are pulling ALL western technology and resources they would be totally crippled because they are incompetent. We are borrowing money because all our manufacturing base is going over seas so we no longer have a GDP, alot of US jobs are service based. If we keep up this same political suicide they will stomp us with our own technology and know how. There was a day when you could be put in prison for doing what some companies are doing now with building things that use high technology in a hostile nation, it was called treason and was a breach of national security. And as I said before India is a little better but not much better, at least we are not in debt to them nor do we build factorys there to exploit slave labor.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

If we told them screw you we are not paying the debt and are pulling ALL western technology and resources they would be totally crippled because they are incompetent. We are borrowing money because all our manufacturing base is going over seas so we no longer have a GDP, alot of US jobs are service based. If we keep up this same political suicide they will stomp us with our own technology and know how. There was a day when you could be put in prison for doing what some companies are doing now with building things that use high technology in a hostile nation, it was called treason and was a breach of national security. And as I said before India is a little better but not much better, at least we are not in debt to them nor do we build factorys there to exploit slave labor.

OMG, not even nations like North Korea or Cuba would consider to just not pay their debt.. besides the fact that at the moment we don't pay off our debt, no sane person or country will ever ever lend us money again. and money borrowing is what we do all day.

And unless you can convince every other industrialized country to join your technology boycott (what technology doe the US actually have that Western Europe, Japan etc. don't have something better?). and I'm sure those countries have some technology we need. Software etc, mainly is developed in India nowadays.

for everyone believing in protectionism I'd recommend this book before you make the mistake of bringing the US even more behind other nations.