Dr. Tom's Classroom

[MecEng]

Same here, Dr. Tom's Classroom, Slay the PE, Engineering Pro Guides, NCEES 2001, 2011 and 2016.

Still was shocked with AM questions of October 2019.

 

[cjcarter]

100% Right

I solved 2001, 2011 and 2016.

October 2019 was surprising for me 

Out of curiosity I looked at the Page 5 of the latest NCEES Practice Exam regarding the Approximate Number for questions from each section. It says Basic Engineering Practice Section shows Approximate 6 problems and Supportive Knowledge Section Shows Approximate 4 questions with a total of 10 questions. This includes AM and PM Sections out of 80 problems. Now, the Practice Exam only had 8-9 questions total for these sections. The October 2019 exam had at least 20 questions total out of these sections. The question is can you sue NCEES for something like this without a proof since they don't provide the questions after the exam? They definitely did not stick with their own exam specification. Being and engineer, following industry standards and client's standards is a must. So what NCEES did with the October 2019 Exam is against their Ethics of Engineering. They better grade the Thermo Fluids Sections higher for the cut scores. 

 

[Dr. Barber]

Out of curiosity I looked at the Page 5 of the latest NCEES Practice Exam regarding the Approximate Number for questions from each section. It says Basic Engineering Practice Section shows Approximate 6 problems and Supportive Knowledge Section Shows Approximate 4 questions with a total of 10 questions. This includes AM and PM Sections out of 80 problems. Now, the Practice Exam only had 8-9 questions total for these sections. The October 2019 exam had at least 20 questions total out of these sections. The question is can you sue NCEES for something like this without a proof since they don't provide the questions after the exam? They definitely did not stick with their own exam specification. Being and engineer, following industry standards and client's standards is a must. So what NCEES did with the October 2019 Exam is against their Ethics of Engineering. They better grade the Thermo Fluids Sections higher for the cut scores. 

Sue them for what? What are the damages?  You don't even know if you failed or not!!!! Will you still sue if you passed?

If I'm a plaintiff's attorney and I'm to take your case in a contingency basis, you'd have to show me how you would have definitely passed if they had only asked 8 - 10 questions on general/supportive knowledge and that asking 18 - 20 was what made you fail.  Then you'd have to show me how having to retake the test makes you special and deserving of whatever it is your suit seeks.

Also, It's not like they singled YOU out and gave you a different test.  It was the whole cohort that was thrown this curveball, and the way they grade the test accounts for that.

 

[Supe]

LOL, you're going to sue a test administrator because they didn't have exactly the number of questions listed after the word "approximate" in a practice exam.

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

Out of curiosity I looked at the Page 5 of the latest NCEES Practice Exam regarding the Approximate Number for questions from each section. It says Basic Engineering Practice Section shows Approximate 6 problems and Supportive Knowledge Section Shows Approximate 4 questions with a total of 10 questions. This includes AM and PM Sections out of 80 problems. Now, the Practice Exam only had 8-9 questions total for these sections. The October 2019 exam had at least 20 questions total out of these sections. The question is can you sue NCEES for something like this without a proof since they don't provide the questions after the exam? They definitely did not stick with their own exam specification. Being and engineer, following industry standards and client's standards is a must. So what NCEES did with the October 2019 Exam is against their Ethics of Engineering. They better grade the Thermo Fluids Sections higher for the cut scores. 

Please tell me this entire post was a glorious attempt at trolling?

 

[cjcarter]

So as an engineer lets define approximate. Can I call 10% plus minus approximate? Yes I can. Can I call 50% plus minus approximate. Hey there wait a sec! Can I call 100% plus minus approximate? You are joking right? If the number of approximate questions are 10, asking 15 and above is against what you call approximate in engineering with a pretty big error margin. Do you still think I am trolling?

 

[Supe]

Did they specify a margin of error?  No?  Then yes, every one of those percentages you listed is approximate. 

And if you think you're going to "sue" over being out of tolerance where no tolerance was specified, well, good luck in the real world.  Your bosses are going to love you. 

Be sure to send them a strongly worded letter while you're at it, I'm sure it'll go right to the top.

 

[cjcarter]

Did they specify a margin of error?  No?  Then yes, every one of those percentages you listed is approximate. 

And if you think you're going to "sue" over being out of tolerance where no tolerance was specified, well, good luck in the real world.  Your bosses are going to love you. 

Be sure to send them a strongly worded letter while you're at it, I'm sure it'll go right to the top.

Ohh i m not going to but if someone wants to it’s a legitimate case, especially in the US with ton of law suits going on. If you are an engineer you damn well know what is approximate or not. They don’t have to give a margin of error. I hope you are not stamping anything because i would have serious safety concerns with the way you are thinking. 

 

[Supe]

And if you're an engineer specifying "approximations" on anything that shouldn't be approximated, I would have serious safety concerns on behalf of your E&O insurance provider.

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

This thread is quickly approaching being locked.

 

[Audi Driver P.E.]

Ohh i m not going to but if someone wants to it’s a legitimate case, especially in the US with ton of law suits going on. If you are an engineer you damn well know what is approximate or not. They don’t have to give a margin of error. I hope you are not stamping anything because i would have serious safety concerns with the way you are thinking. 

This is some funny **** right here. A legit case? LMFAO.

 

[cjcarter]

And if you're an engineer specifying "approximations" on anything that shouldn't be approximated, I would have serious safety concerns on behalf of your E&O insurance provider.

Well guess what? Passed the exam on the first try. Regarding your statement about approximation. If you have it in writing on an official NCEES document released to public then there is nothing you can do about it. It is written as " Approximate" on the number of questions, which means it shall be approximated. I feel bad for quality engineers studying hard, spending time on studying instead of being with their family and failing this exam due to NCEES not following their own exam specification. I think this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and not taken lightly. 

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

Well guess what? Passed the exam on the first try. Regarding your statement about approximation. If you have it in writing on an official NCEES document released to public then there is nothing you can do about it. It is written as " Approximate" on the number of questions, which means it shall be approximated. I feel bad for quality engineers studying hard, spending time on studying instead of being with their family and failing this exam due to NCEES not following their own exam specification. I think this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and not taken lightly. 

1. Congrats on passing the exam.

2. Passing the exam lends no legitimacy to your argument regarding approximations.

3. Are quality engineers really engineers though? (trolling)

4. If you feel this strongly about it then contact NCEES in lieu of arguing on this board.

 

[Audi Driver P.E.]

Well guess what? Passed the exam on the first try. Regarding your statement about approximation. If you have it in writing on an official NCEES document released to public then there is nothing you can do about it. It is written as " Approximate" on the number of questions, which means it shall be approximated. I feel bad for quality engineers studying hard, spending time on studying instead of being with their family and failing this exam due to NCEES not following their own exam specification. I think this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and not taken lightly. 

You have this little understanding about something as simple approximations and still passed?  I'm thinking something nefarious led to that passing score, and perhaps NCEES needs to look into how it happened. That's the serious issue that needs to be addressed. I pity any company that would consider hiring you as a PE.

 

[cjcarter]

You have this little understanding about something as simple approximations and still passed?  I'm thinking something nefarious led to that passing score, and perhaps NCEES needs to look into how it happened. That's the serious issue that needs to be addressed. I pity any company that would consider hiring you as a PE.

Huh! Coming from someone who doesn't read specifications and approved documents? Who doesn't know what approximation is? I also believe in Engineering Ethics unlike you. You should be the one ashamed of yourself. With a nick name of Audi Driver, I pity the company paying the money so you can afford one. Don't even joke about approximation in engineering especially when public safety is at risk. DO NOT STAMP ANYTHING. That is my advice to you. Mr Audi Driver. 

 

[Audi Driver P.E.]

Huh! Coming from someone who doesn't read specifications and approved documents? Who doesn't know what approximation is? I also believe in Engineering Ethics unlike you. You should be the one ashamed of yourself. With a nick name of Audi Driver, I pity the company paying the money so you can afford one. Don't even joke about approximation in engineering especially when public safety is at risk. DO NOT STAMP ANYTHING. That is my advice to you. Mr Audi Driver. 

Doesn't read specifications and approved documents?  Might want to put the crack pipe down.

 

[cjcarter]

1. Congrats on passing the exam.

2. Passing the exam lends no legitimacy to your argument regarding approximations.

3. Are quality engineers really engineers though? (trolling)

4. If you feel this strongly about it then contact NCEES in lieu of arguing on this board.

Thank you so much. I did submit my concern with the Survey and have no intention of pursuing forward. Thank you so much for your suggestion. 

 

[Tiger15]

There's a legit difference of opinion here:

• The fact that NCEES publishes a specification for the exam (the exam that they create) which provides an approximate number of questions on each topic.
  
• The reality that NCEES has no obligation (legal or otherwise) to follow that specification, and they can legitimately do whatever they want.
  

I do read a lot of specifications, and NCEES made no binding "shall" or "must" statements in their self-imposed specification.

I understand both sides, but I also understand that with the stress of the exam, emotions can get a little heated. The anonymity of the internet doesn't help. But this is a site dedicated to obtained Professional Engineer licensure. Let's all try to act a little more professionally. No need for personal attacks.