Deceptive Exam

[Wade_TX]

I relied heavily on the Quick Reference manual and used it like the FE exam reference manual.  It was especially handy for quick questions that only required plug and chug equations.  I tabbed it, made notes in it, and tried to get really comfortable with it.  If I could not solve a problem with that, then I went to CERM and a few notes sheets that I made to get more in depth.  I tried to save using other references for last.  I think that really helped to give me to get the best use of my time in the AM.

 

[ruggercsc]

I can't speak to if the exam was more deceptive, but if you look at the Construction Exam statistics for the last 5 exams it is not more difficult to pass than other past exams:

1. October 2015 First Time Takers 686/58% Pass Rate  Repeat Takers 663/27% Pass Rate
   
2.  April 2016 First Time Takers 779/62% Pass Rate  Repeat Takers 737/36% Pass Rate
   
3. October 2016 First Time Takers ???/55% Pass Rate  Repeat Takers ???/29% Pass Rate
   
4. April 2017 First Time Takers 838/60% Pass Rate  Repeat Takers 832/32% Pass Rate
   
5. October 2017 First Time Takers 819/60% Pass Rate  Repeat Takers 661/36% Pass Rate
   

It actually had one of the higher passing rates.  If you are a repeat taker, you only stand a 1:4 to 1:3 chance of passing.  Don't give up though, statistics also showed Hillary Clinton was supposed to be president.

 

[JackmanPE]

My two cents on the topic at hand....

This Oct was my first attempt at the PE exam. I took the Geotech PM session. I got the PPI books and the NCEES practice exam. I prepared diligently for the exam. I managed to fail the exam. What I observed was that the NCEES practice exam was easier than the PPI problems and exams, as well as the actual PE exam. I felt like the AM session was alright; there were certainly topics I am not well-versed in and I had to guess at several questions, but that is pretty standard. We can't all know everything. The PM session was not quite what I expected. Meaning, maybe only a quarter to a third of the exam was actual standard work out problems that I had practiced from PPI books/exams and the NCEES practice exam. There were a LOT of concept-type questions on the exam, especially in the PM session. The truth of the matter is, like many others here have stated, you either know the concept or you don't. Many I knew and answered correctly (admittedly, some I only knew from field work and others I didn't know because I had not done that particular thing before in the field), and also several I stared at with wide eyes trying to understand what in the hell they were asking or talking about for several minutes before guessing and moving on....lol There were a good handful of questions that really stretched the realm of possibility in the Geotech world (I had a few that were straight structural and one or two that belonged in water resources) but since Geotech (and this also applies to Construction) is so connected with other civil disciplines, its expected that we know these things. In the real world, we have to sort out all sorts of random crap from clients and agencies and anyone else providing us with information. We also have to take any problem and figure out a way to solve it. The PPI book even discusses how to learn to read between the lines in exam problems, since there are what they call "distractors" in some of the problems. It is our job to learn the material so well that we are not distracted very often. As frustrating as it is to fail when you feel prepared, it tells us that we need to learn more and increase our abilities to solve (exam) problems, differentiate between minor differences in answers, and read the problems carefully. There were certainly several tricky questions, but what may have seemed deceptive to one person might have been a simple problem for someone else. It is a matter of what you know, as well as what material is on the exam. A PE stamp is a big deal, and there most definitely needs to be exams like this (i.e. minimum knowledge criteria) to ensure the safety of the public and integrity of the profession. Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is my personal opinion. I do not have all the answers on how to improve studying methods to pass, but certainly practicing many, many problems cannot hurt. I feel your pain at the thought of spending the next four months studying again, but I plan to suck it up and hit the books hard no matter how unpleasant it may be. I sure do hope all of us who failed this Oct exam are able to pass in April! If not, try, try, try again. We will pass eventually!

Agreed! The Geotech depth was twice harder than the April 2017 exam. Overall I thought both depth and breadth were uniquely different.  However,  I PASSED. I passed because I figured after my April attempt I needed to do things differently. By the way it was my third attempt. First attempt was a wasted one. I tried to wing it and I was pleasantly surprised lol. I'm willing to share my approach! Never give up!

 

[CivilGuy00]

I relied heavily on the Quick Reference manual and used it like the FE exam reference manual.  It was especially handy for quick questions that only required plug and chug equations.  I tabbed it, made notes in it, and tried to get really comfortable with it.  If I could not solve a problem with that, then I went to CERM and a few notes sheets that I made to get more in depth.  I tried to save using other references for last.  I think that really helped to give me to get the best use of my time in the AM.

Is this quick reference manual something you created or can be bought? 

 

[user 35538]

Agreed! The Geotech depth was twice harder than the April 2017 exam. Overall I thought both depth and breadth were uniquely different.  However,  I PASSED. I passed because I figured after my April attempt I needed to do things differently. By the way it was my third attempt. First attempt was a wasted one. I tried to wing it and I was pleasantly surprised lol. I'm willing to share my approach! Never give up!

Hey, congrats on passing, that is awesome!!! And I have already determined that I need to beef up on concepts, learn more of the breadth stuff that I don't know, and keep practicing geotech problems. I would love to hear your strategy. I know everyone has to find what works individually, and what I did for my first attempt worked out pretty well, I think I almost passed, but obviously I need to do more of something...lol Thanks, I appreciate your input.

 

[Wade_TX]

Is this quick reference manual something you created or can be bought? 

The quick reference manual is sold by PPI. 

https://ppi2pass.com/quick-reference-for-the-civil-engineering-pe-exam-ceqr9.html 

It does not contain all of the equations of the CERM, but it contains the "most valuable and common used equations and graphs" while using the same numbering and order as CERM.  While working a problem, if I could find the topic in my quick reference manual (150 pages), but then I realized that I needed more information on the topic, I could use the quick reference as sort of an index for the CERM.  

 

[CivilGuy00]

The quick reference manual is sold by PPI. 

https://ppi2pass.com/quick-reference-for-the-civil-engineering-pe-exam-ceqr9.html 

It does not contain all of the equations of the CERM, but it contains the "most valuable and common used equations and graphs" while using the same numbering and order as CERM.  While working a problem, if I could find the topic in my quick reference manual (150 pages), but then I realized that I needed more information on the topic, I could use the quick reference as sort of an index for the CERM.  

Oh nice ok. Thanks. 

 

[CivilGuy00]

Agreed! The Geotech depth was twice harder than the April 2017 exam. Overall I thought both depth and breadth were uniquely different.  However,  I PASSED. I passed because I figured after my April attempt I needed to do things differently. By the way it was my third attempt. First attempt was a wasted one. I tried to wing it and I was pleasantly surprised lol. I'm willing to share my approach! Never give up!

I am glad you passed! Big relief. So what was your approach?

 

[WE WERE THE MULVANEYS]

I would just like to say to hang in there and eventually you will pass, what helped me tremendously was EET for Construction, Samir is an excellent teacher. He is why I passed second time around. After a while you just get more comfortable with finding those tricks. I failed first try and was very dissapointed with the fact that I thought I did good, this time around I knew what to expect and was much more relaxed.

I even had the time to check to see if there were some tricks and found a few, where I checked if I made a certain wrong assumption if that answer was one of the choices, and saw that it was in fact one of the choices. It was one I almost got wrong and it had to do with understanding the correct unit weight to use for solving a problem. This time around I could find the tricks much easier than the first time. Stick with it.

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

The luck involved in passing the PE is incredibly minimal. There are a couple "know it or don't" type questions, that are basically gimmes for certain people or guesses for others, depending on what industry you work in. I had 2 that I can think of.

This is so true and those questions will vary for each person as well as for those who do/dont have the reference books listed in the specs. I opted to buy the OSHA book this time and I'm so glad I did. There are way too many topics to rely solely on free publications/handouts for the OSHA questions which are usually easy lookup questions. Costs can add up but when you fail by only a handful of questions,  you start to think about all the east points you may have missed.

 

[CAPLS]

For those of you that think the test is tricky and deceptive...maybe you’re just not experienced enough to be licensed.  Yet.  

 

[S7234R]

If you try to look for reasons why you failed like blaming the test then you will never pass. Take responsibility for your failure, evaluate your strategy and make any adjustments that you think will help you succeed. 

I failed my first time and passed the second. I modified my study strategy to incorporate working as many practice problems and examples as possible to expose myself to facets of every test area.

Do something different in your study, take a class if you need to and feel you have exhausted other options. I refused to take a class out of pride because I had done the FE using only self study and wanted to continue that trend. 

The test incorporates common mistakes (using wrong equation, forgetting a unit conversion, etc) as possible answers in the multiple choices not to trick you, but to evaluate your ability as an engineer. These things can happen in the profession and mistakes in units or equation selection could potentially be disastrous. I even caught a few mistakes myself during the exam because I was using an incorrect equation and corrected them. 

The only person you are hurting by blaming the test for your failures is yourself. 

 

[Voomie]

For those of you that think the test is tricky and deceptive...maybe you’re just not experienced enough to be licensed.  Yet.  

This is very true. What percentage of actual projects are just straight forward and don't have some sort of twist that complicates things? Maybe 10%?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Stephen2awesome]

This is very true. What percentage of actual projects are just straight forward and don't have some sort of twist that complicates things? Maybe 10%?

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10%?....lucky

 

[txjennah PE]

This is very true. What percentage of actual projects are just straight forward and don't have some sort of twist that complicates things? Maybe 10%?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

10%?....lucky

Granted I don't do traditional engineering day to day, but I'd say complications pop up pretty regularly, whether it's our clients, regulators, or field conditions when we go and collect samples.  It's all part of the job though.

 

[j.hernandez.1989]

I took the Construction Civil PE exam for the 2nd time (Oct. '17) and swore I aced it. I left so confident that I felt I would never be coming back. Much to my amazement I failed, I missed 14 in the morning and 16 in the afternoon. I really felt the construction exam was super easy and honestly I certainly don't feel like I missed the concepts, I feel more like I didn't understand the tricks. This test is very deceptive and it's frustrating that at one time the exam was much more straight-forward. The one aspect I learned from studying for this exam is, quantity and quality of hours devoted to studying doesn't mean a thing. This test is a combination of luck and knowing the tricks of what is being asked. I learned from this attempt don't leave feeling arrogant, and another one is I don't think it's very practical to say one can ace the breadth exam. I feel like I keep getting around 27-28/40 for the morning and that's the best I can get. I need to ace the afternoon, and it may be I need a different depth. I owe it to my family more than anything to take time away from studying. Hard to believe I aced civil engineering in college and have failed twice. Congrats on everyone who passed this time.

I just want to share my thoughts of the exam. I do not have previous test experience with this exam before Oct. 2017, but I also took the Construction portion too and passed. I do not know what my score is (since a pass doesn't permit an evaluation) so I really am only speaking from terms of my experience.

Personally, I did not find the test deceptive. I also did not find the exam to be extremely difficult either, but it is none the less a challenging test. The point of this test is to show you can determine important and non-important data, show proper problem solving techniques and to be able to learn on the fly. While preparing and studying for this test i spent about 1-2 months studying everyday after work from 5PM-10PM and spent over 1000 dollars on reference materials and practice exams. In my opinion this was a waste of time, because 90% of what was on the test I did not study for. I wish more of what I studied was actually on the test. To add to that the most important thing I did which I believe allowed me to pass was to tab the CERM with only relative information and understand how to navigate the manual. There were several problems on the exam that I have never encountered before and I believe navigating the CERM was 50% of the key for passing, the other 40% is understanding the basic concepts of each discipline (Civil, Trans, Geotech, WR, and Struct). The last 10% would most likely be having a deep understanding of your chosen discipline. The construction test in my opinion (for this test cycle) had an array of questions I believe shouldn't have been in the construction depth, but I was glad they were there because most were concepts I learned from school. Just remember you have 6 minutes a question going back and reviewing your answers is very important (i changed at least 5 of my answers), so if you walked out early keep that in mind. I hope this helps and I really hope the next time around you have a better outcome.

 

[Tyke]

This exam tests your ability to win the lottery. If you pass this exam, you can win the lottery. FACT.

 

[engine42]

Especially those that work in government. 

Don't be like that.

Oh, matt267 has something there...

 

[engine42]

So I put an exhaustive response over in Electrical/Electronics (as there is precious little information specific to that test here):

 

[PipesAndPins]

I just want to share my thoughts of the exam. I do not have previous test experience with this exam before Oct. 2017, but I also took the Construction portion too and passed. I do not know what my score is (since a pass doesn't permit an evaluation) so I really am only speaking from terms of my experience.

Personally, I did not find the test deceptive. I also did not find the exam to be extremely difficult either, but it is none the less a challenging test. The point of this test is to show you can determine important and non-important data, show proper problem solving techniques and to be able to learn on the fly. While preparing and studying for this test i spent about 1-2 months studying everyday after work from 5PM-10PM and spent over 1000 dollars on reference materials and practice exams. In my opinion this was a waste of time, because 90% of what was on the test I did not study for. I wish more of what I studied was actually on the test. To add to that the most important thing I did which I believe allowed me to pass was to tab the CERM with only relative information and understand how to navigate the manual. There were several problems on the exam that I have never encountered before and I believe navigating the CERM was 50% of the key for passing, the other 40% is understanding the basic concepts of each discipline (Civil, Trans, Geotech, WR, and Struct). The last 10% would most likely be having a deep understanding of your chosen discipline. The construction test in my opinion (for this test cycle) had an array of questions I believe shouldn't have been in the construction depth, but I was glad they were there because most were concepts I learned from school. Just remember you have 6 minutes a question going back and reviewing your answers is very important (i changed at least 5 of my answers), so if you walked out early keep that in mind. I hope this helps and I really hope the next time around you have a better outcome.

The amount of people that walked out early blew my mind.   I, at least, double checked everything.   Some of the people posting on here are definitely guilty oh hubris.