Deceptive Exam

[Ken PE 3.1]

Just wondering the two of your who are disagreeing took the construction exam.. because your disciplines say mechanical and electrical.....

(Also not at all saying those two are easier - I couldn't even imagine attempting one of those problems)

What level of questions should be minimally acceptable?

Which part of any engineering job is not riddled with a bunch of nonsense and useless information?

If you read the questions on the test and understand the concepts, you should have an above average shot at answering it correctly.

I remember one particular question when I took it last that had a whole table of info provided. After reading the question again, there was only 2 lines that pertained to the question being asked. So, I feel that I got the correct answer because I paid enough attention to see what they were asking for.

 

[matt267 PE]

Which part of any engineering job is not riddled with a bunch of nonsense and useless information?

Especially those that work in government. 

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

Especially those that work in government. 

Don't be like that.

 

[Jbone27 PE]

I'm sure not passing is a hard pill to swallow but it will not serve anyone to blame the test. Yeah it throws curveballs but it is not intended to be easy. Take a few days to let it sink in and then get back in there. 

 

[YMZ PE]

The geotechnical depth was fairly straightforward back when I took it. I've heard the construction depth questions tend to be tricky on account of the concepts themselves being relatively straightforward. So I don't disagree with your complaint, but I do disagree that the quality and quantity of study time doesn't matter. It's a function of both doing enough practice questions and understanding the concepts.

 

[YMZ PE]

Don't be like that.

You've never had to jump through hoops trying to justify your engineering judgment because some politician wanted to mess with your project based on a whim?

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

You've never had to jump through hoops trying to justify your engineering judgment because some politician wanted to mess with your project based on a whim?

That's my daily life as a government employee...I just didn't want to be reminded of it.  Aren't we supposed to be in this together @YMZ PE @matt267 PE

 

[YMZ PE]

That's my daily life as a government employee...I just didn't want to be reminded of it.  Aren't we supposed to be in this together @YMZ PE @matt267 PE

I assumed we were all mutually masochistic.

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

I assumed we were all mutually masochistic.

Don't bring the bedroom into this.

 

[Mikene13]

I took the Construction Civil PE exam for the 2nd time (Oct. '17) and swore I aced it. I left so confident that I felt I would never be coming back. Much to my amazement I failed, I missed 14 in the morning and 16 in the afternoon. I really felt the construction exam was super easy and honestly I certainly don't feel like I missed the concepts, I feel more like I didn't understand the tricks. This test is very deceptive and it's frustrating that at one time the exam was much more straight-forward. The one aspect I learned from studying for this exam is, quantity and quality of hours devoted to studying doesn't mean a thing. This test is a combination of luck and knowing the tricks of what is being asked. I learned from this attempt don't leave feeling arrogant, and another one is I don't think it's very practical to say one can ace the breadth exam. I feel like I keep getting around 27-28/40 for the morning and that's the best I can get. I need to ace the afternoon, and it may be I need a different depth. I owe it to my family more than anything to take time away from studying. Hard to believe I aced civil engineering in college and have failed twice. Congrats on everyone who passed this time.

I totally agree. ThIs was my third attempt and the outcome was actually lower than the pervious (48 to 46) attempt. I too felt very good walking out on test day. Looking at the diagnostic reports is crazy. Subjects that I performed well in on one test I bomb on the next test and vise versa. Shouldn’t things be somewhat consistent?

I think for the next test I will take two practice exams the two weekends before the test and wing it on test day. I am over spending copious amounts of money on study materials and spending endless hours studying material that I feel comfortable with. 

Congradulation to all of the passers, and for the rest of us........we only fail if we stop trying.

 

[Dean Agnostic]

I do disagree that the quality and quantity of study time doesn't matter.

For me, Quality and Quantity matter. 

 

[txjennah PE]

For me, Quality and Quantity matter. 

Agreed. I spent over twice as much time studying for this exam the second time I took it, and only scored a point higher than the first time. So that tells me I need to reevaluate my study techniques and approach.  

 

[cal91]

I totally agree. ThIs was my third attempt and the outcome was actually lower than the pervious (48 to 46) attempt. I too felt very good walking out on test day. Looking at the diagnostic reports is crazy. Subjects that I performed well in on one test I bomb on the next test and vise versa. Shouldn’t things be somewhat consistent?

I think for the next test I will take two practice exams the two weekends before the test and wing it on test day. I am over spending copious amounts of money on study materials and spending endless hours studying material that I feel comfortable with. 

Congradulation to all of the passers, and for the rest of us........we only fail if we stop trying.

Someone who is not getting a passing score will not be as consistent on their subjects. That is because a greater portion of your questions are correct from guessing. Extreme examples - someone who knows everything 100% has no variation because nothing is left up to guessing. Someone who knows nothing will still get 25% right, and in some categories maybe 3/3. But then the next time they take the test they get 25% right again, but 0/3 in that same category. 

Keep it up though, improve your study habits and you'll get it!

 

[DCHopeful]

What level of questions should be minimally acceptable?

Which part of any engineering job is not riddled with a bunch of nonsense and useless information?

If you read the questions on the test and understand the concepts, you should have an above average shot at answering it correctly.

I remember one particular question when I took it last that had a whole table of info provided. After reading the question again, there was only 2 lines that pertained to the question being asked. So, I feel that I got the correct answer because I paid enough attention to see what they were asking for.

I will say I'm convinced here and do think I need to fully understand the concepts more than just how to solve problems. I think I just assumed that knowing how to answer a lot of different problems would be enough to get me by (I probably solved close to 1000 practice problems when studying).

On a side note, walking out I was shocked at how little problems actually required solving.  There seemed to be a lot more knowledge/ inofrmational questions.

 

[znjjay]

I don't think the exams are deceptive or tricky, fundamentally speaking, you only need to know 2 things, what you are trying to find, and how can you find that with what's given.  Order does matter, always work backwards, never try to put everything together with what's given UNLESS you know what you are looking for.

Also, don't approach the review with the mindset of just trying to simply pass the exam, use it as a process to really learn the material, even if you know you won't use some of it ever in your life. 

Better luck next time!

 

[user 35538]

My two cents on the topic at hand....

This Oct was my first attempt at the PE exam. I took the Geotech PM session. I got the PPI books and the NCEES practice exam. I prepared diligently for the exam. I managed to fail the exam. What I observed was that the NCEES practice exam was easier than the PPI problems and exams, as well as the actual PE exam. I felt like the AM session was alright; there were certainly topics I am not well-versed in and I had to guess at several questions, but that is pretty standard. We can't all know everything. The PM session was not quite what I expected. Meaning, maybe only a quarter to a third of the exam was actual standard work out problems that I had practiced from PPI books/exams and the NCEES practice exam. There were a LOT of concept-type questions on the exam, especially in the PM session. The truth of the matter is, like many others here have stated, you either know the concept or you don't. Many I knew and answered correctly (admittedly, some I only knew from field work and others I didn't know because I had not done that particular thing before in the field), and also several I stared at with wide eyes trying to understand what in the hell they were asking or talking about for several minutes before guessing and moving on....lol There were a good handful of questions that really stretched the realm of possibility in the Geotech world (I had a few that were straight structural and one or two that belonged in water resources) but since Geotech (and this also applies to Construction) is so connected with other civil disciplines, its expected that we know these things. In the real world, we have to sort out all sorts of random crap from clients and agencies and anyone else providing us with information. We also have to take any problem and figure out a way to solve it. The PPI book even discusses how to learn to read between the lines in exam problems, since there are what they call "distractors" in some of the problems. It is our job to learn the material so well that we are not distracted very often. As frustrating as it is to fail when you feel prepared, it tells us that we need to learn more and increase our abilities to solve (exam) problems, differentiate between minor differences in answers, and read the problems carefully. There were certainly several tricky questions, but what may have seemed deceptive to one person might have been a simple problem for someone else. It is a matter of what you know, as well as what material is on the exam. A PE stamp is a big deal, and there most definitely needs to be exams like this (i.e. minimum knowledge criteria) to ensure the safety of the public and integrity of the profession. Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is my personal opinion. I do not have all the answers on how to improve studying methods to pass, but certainly practicing many, many problems cannot hurt. I feel your pain at the thought of spending the next four months studying again, but I plan to suck it up and hit the books hard no matter how unpleasant it may be. I sure do hope all of us who failed this Oct exam are able to pass in April! If not, try, try, try again. We will pass eventually!

 

[user 35538]

I will say I'm convinced here and do think I need to fully understand the concepts more than just how to solve problems. I think I just assumed that knowing how to answer a lot of different problems would be enough to get me by (I probably solved close to 1000 practice problems when studying).

On a side note, walking out I was shocked at how little problems actually required solving.  There seemed to be a lot more knowledge/ inofrmational questions.

Yes, exactly. I agree with you 100% that we need to learn concepts more. For me, reading about topics and doing a ton of problems helps me learn the concepts. If you only learn the steps to solve some problems, but not on a conceptual level, then there will be many problems that you aren't able to solve correctly. I found that true for myself as well. Concepts and problems I knew and understood were relatively easy, and the rest were a lot of trying to solve it many ways, head-scratching, and ultimately, guessing.

 

[John QPE]

If you're tricked by the exam, you need to seriously re-evaluate your study habits. The test is straight forward. Put in the effort, and you too can get 100 on your first attempt like me.

 

[matt267 PE]

Put in the effort, and you too can get 100 on your first attempt like me.

 

[Wade_TX]

For me, Quality and Quantity matter. 

I couldn't agree more with the quality part.  The main thing that stressed me out about the PPI review course was getting bogged down in discussion about insignificant details during the classes.  Some of the practice problems/homework also made you graph data or use processes that would never be asked for on the exam.  I was stressed because I knew that I didn't have hours upon hours to study and I needed to make the most of my time.  Most people that are taking this exam have jobs, families, and other major life events that are taking place while studying for the exam.  None of those things stop for the exam either.  This puts a huge limit on study time and makes quality the most important aspect. 

One of the things that I think helped me the most was taking the NCEES practice exam 1 week before the test and treating it exactly like the real exam by allowing 4 hours in the morning, eating lunch, and 4 hours in the afternoon.  There are so many outside factors on test day that contribute to your overall performance that have nothing to do with knowledge of the material.  Sitting for 8 hours working problems, not being able to take a break, being stressed to finish on time, having limited amount of room to spread your books out, etc.   Treat the practice exam exactly like the real one, so that you get comfortable doing those things.

Most of all, keep your head up.  They are not trying to trick you, you know the material, and you can do this.