Cut Score...

[Mike in Gastonia]

54-56 cut score is for Civil. I don't think that Electical or Mechanical share the same cut score.

Nobody except NCEES knows the cut score for any of the tests.

Exactly right. And when people say these as statements, others take them as fact and the myths are perpetuated......

 

[hansel]

54-56 cut score is for Civil. I don't think that Electical or Mechanical share the same cut score.

I agree. 56 is a good guess. Nobody has ever reported here that they got more than 70% correct and failed the exam. So it is safe to say that 56 correct (or 70%) is the threshold.

What I don't understand about the NCEES, however, is the whole secrecy around the cut score. If the scoring process is so solid and fair as they claim why not publish at least the cut score?

 

[benbo]

I agree. 56 is a good guess. Nobody has ever reported here that they got more than 70% correct and failed the exam. So it is safe to say that 56 correct (or 70%) is the threshold. What I don't understand about the NCEES, however, is the whole secrecy around the cut score. If the scoring process is so solid and fair as they claim why not publish at least the cut score?

Somebody on this website used the diagnostic to calculate their score and reported failing with a 56.

 

[JoeysVee]

Somebody on this website used the diagnostic to calculate their score and reported failing with a 56.

Do you have a link to this thread? If not, what could we search for to find it? I'm not sure I would believe the guy if he said he got a 56 and failed..

 

[humner]

With todays computers and programs in them, our test results could be sent out in a week after they enter all the exam answers into the scantron. It comes down to money, if they demonstrate that it could be done in less then two months, they would not be able to charge as much. But seeing as how there is only one sherriff in town, there is no competition to get it done sooner. We pay with our cash, and we pay with our time. These tests could easily be offered 4 times a year.

 

[Vishal]

This whole % discussion does not tell the whole story. In "estimating" the # of correct answers the candidate is going by the %'s published in the diagnostic report and NCEES guidelines for the # of questions in each subject. According to me, this is flawed since in doing so you are assuming that all the questions from all the sections have been counted towards the final score and this may not be the case.

Not only do we not know how many questions have been tossed out of final score but we also don't know from which section. For example, you get a 100% score in an area where there were 4 questions on the test but 2 of these questions were tossed out so your # of correct answers is 2 and not 4. What will give the corect picture is if the test scorers will publish the # of questions accounted in each section and # of correct responses. PTOE test result did this for me. I had a break down for each section and also the average score (I passed the test and still got this breakdown). I think CA specific exams also give out the cut score.

Add to all this the fact that if a test is easier or if the pool of test takers is "above average" then it is completely possible for a candidate to get 56/80 (if all the questions were accounted for in the final score) and still fail since the average test taker for that test was able to score higher than 56. The whole myth of the number 56 is related to 70% which is related to the passing score of 70. But passing score is NOT equal to % of correct responses. So 56 is not even the starting point to calculate the cut score it is just that, a myth. I say that from the explanation given about the test scoring it is also possible for a candidate to score 60/80 and still fail since the average candidate was found to be able to answer more # of questions correct.

 

[benbo]

Do you have a link to this thread? If not, what could we search for to find it? I'm not sure I would believe the guy if he said he got a 56 and failed..

Believe me, it's on here. I have no idea where, or if he was lying (obviously).

 

[Mutha PE PS]

Nobody except NCEES knows the cut score for any of the tests.

Here is some information from the GA board FAQ's:

Q. Does a passing score of 70 mean that 70% of the questions were answered correctly?

A. No. The required number of points (questions answered correctly) needed to pass the exam is determined in terms of the total points available on the exam. The required number of points needed to pass the exam is referred to as the “raw passing score.” This raw passing score is always reported as the converted or scaled score of 70.

Q. Making this score conversion is confusing. Is it necessary?

A. Score conversion to a uniform scale is a common practice. The practice is used so that the passing score on every administration of the exam is always the same. Furthermore, some licensing boards are required by law to use 70 as the passing score. The NCEES has used this practice for many years.

Q. From the questions and answers above, I gather that the raw passing score can vary. Why is this?

A. The raw passing score can vary on exams that are no-choice. The no-choice format has been used for many years by the NCEES on the Fundamentals of Engineering exam and the two Land Surveying exams. At the present time (2001) the PE exams are in the process of converting to this format. The no-choice format permits the NCEES to perform a statistical analysis and use it to adjust the raw passing score to account for variations in the level of difficulty of the exams. So, if an exam is more difficult than usual the raw passing score is lowered accordingly. This means that the standard required for passing remains the same.

Q. Traditionally, for the PE exam in civil engineering you had to get 48 points out of 80 possible points to pass. This was 60% of the points available. Now that the passing score is 70 does this mean you have "raised the bar"?

A. Not at all. Under the old format prior to October 2000, the raw passing score for the civil engineering exam was always 48 raw points, and this passing score was always reported as a converted score of 70. In the old format candidates could pick and choose the questions they worked. Many candidates worked a unique set of questions. Under this system there was no way to adjust the passing score from 48 to account for variations in the difficulty of the exam. In October 2000, the civil engineering exam changed to a no-choice format. With this format all candidates work exactly the same exam and it will now be possible to use a statistical analysis to determine if any given exam is more difficult or less difficult than previous exams. The information is used to adjust the raw passing score. This means that an examinee's chances of passing the exam remain constant over time and do not depend on the difficulty of the specific exam that was taken. Therefore the new system is fairer to examinees.

 

[JoeysVee]

Believe me, it's on here. I have no idea where, or if he was lying (obviously).

I believe you...I'm sure it's here.

I would like to read what the guy said so I'd love to see that thread. If he did say that, I personally would not believe him.

 

[JoeysVee]

Here is some information from the GA board FAQ's:
Q. Does a passing score of 70 mean that 70% of the questions were answered correctly?

A. No. The required number of points (questions answered correctly) needed to pass the exam is determined in terms of the total points available on the exam. The required number of points needed to pass the exam is referred to as the “raw passing score.” This raw passing score is always reported as the converted or scaled score of 70.

Q. Making this score conversion is confusing. Is it necessary?

A. Score conversion to a uniform scale is a common practice. The practice is used so that the passing score on every administration of the exam is always the same. Furthermore, some licensing boards are required by law to use 70 as the passing score. The NCEES has used this practice for many years.

Q. From the questions and answers above, I gather that the raw passing score can vary. Why is this?

A. The raw passing score can vary on exams that are no-choice. The no-choice format has been used for many years by the NCEES on the Fundamentals of Engineering exam and the two Land Surveying exams. At the present time (2001) the PE exams are in the process of converting to this format. The no-choice format permits the NCEES to perform a statistical analysis and use it to adjust the raw passing score to account for variations in the level of difficulty of the exams. So, if an exam is more difficult than usual the raw passing score is lowered accordingly. This means that the standard required for passing remains the same.

Q. Traditionally, for the PE exam in civil engineering you had to get 48 points out of 80 possible points to pass. This was 60% of the points available. Now that the passing score is 70 does this mean you have "raised the bar"?

A. Not at all. Under the old format prior to October 2000, the raw passing score for the civil engineering exam was always 48 raw points, and this passing score was always reported as a converted score of 70. In the old format candidates could pick and choose the questions they worked. Many candidates worked a unique set of questions. Under this system there was no way to adjust the passing score from 48 to account for variations in the difficulty of the exam. In October 2000, the civil engineering exam changed to a no-choice format. With this format all candidates work exactly the same exam and it will now be possible to use a statistical analysis to determine if any given exam is more difficult or less difficult than previous exams. The information is used to adjust the raw passing score. This means that an examinee's chances of passing the exam remain constant over time and do not depend on the difficulty of the specific exam that was taken. Therefore the new system is fairer to examinees.

This is exactly how I thought it worked. I've never seen a thread were someone had a 56 and failed so my guess is they start at 56 and work down from there depending on how many problems they throw out and the level of difficulty. That's just my opinion.

 

[SteveV]

I failed in April 08 on the Civil exam and based on my diagnostic I figured I got 52/80.

 

[benbo]

I believe you...I'm sure it's here.
I would like to read what the guy said so I'd love to see that thread. If he did say that, I personally would not believe him.

I have no idea how to find it - especially since the topic of the cut score is not exactly unpopular on here. If I recall correctly he just posted his diagnostic results like everyone else. Of course he could have made that up too. I think IlPadrino may have responded to him, although I'm not sure.

I know a poster on here named LakersFreak posted a failing 55/80 diagnostic. But I can't remember the name of this other member with the 56.

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

With todays computers and programs in them, our test results could be sent out in a week after they enter all the exam answers into the scantron. It comes down to money, if they demonstrate that it could be done in less then two months, they would not be able to charge as much. But seeing as how there is only one sherriff in town, there is no competition to get it done sooner. We pay with our cash, and we pay with our time. These tests could easily be offered 4 times a year.

Wow......

Nothing like making broad, brash statements based on absolutely no facts and no knowledge of how the system works!

 

[EM_PS]

With todays computers and programs in them, our test results could be sent out in a week after they enter all the exam answers into the scantron. It comes down to money, if they demonstrate that it could be done in less then two months, they would not be able to charge as much. But seeing as how there is only one sherriff in town, there is no competition to get it done sooner. We pay with our cash, and we pay with our time. These tests could easily be offered 4 times a year.

In MI, the PS exam has 2 parts, ncees & state specific. The state specific is 4hrs closed book. Its done entirely on a computer. After you finish the test, it tells you before you even get up from your seat whether you passed. Its offered multiple months a year, and multiple days a month; if you fail, you can retake in 3 months. Goes to show there are agencies out there able to deliver an inexpensive, wait-free methodology in contract exam services.

 

[Mutha PE PS]

In MI, the PS exam has 2 parts, ncees & state specific. The state specific is 4hrs closed book. Its done entirely on a computer. After you finish the test, it tells you before you even get up from your seat whether you passed. Its offered multiple months a year, and multiple days a month; if you fail, you can retake in 3 months. Goes to show there are agencies out there able to deliver an inexpensive, wait-free methodology in contract exam services.

The KY Board for LS also offers the State specific 2hr exam at various times throughout the year. I took it in February. The exam started at 9 am went unitl 11am. The proctor had a doctors appointment and could not grade the exam immediatley. She told me to call back later. I called at 3pm and was told I passed! Results the same day!

 

[humner]

Thank you error matrix and hart for reinforcing what I commented on. Having worked in both the private and government sectors, it is amazing how fast some things can be done if there is competition.

 

[chaocl]

I believe you...I'm sure it's here.
I would like to read what the guy said so I'd love to see that thread. If he did say that, I personally would not believe him.

This link...

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=3347&st=50

see under post 96 on the 2nd page!!!!

and you will see 56/80 still fail!!!

By the way I am not Admin...so ask him to see where is his ip address that we might have slicely chance to see which states that he is from...

 

[IlPadrino]

Thank you error matrix and hart for reinforcing what I commented on. Having worked in both the private and government sectors, it is amazing how fast some things can be done if there is competition.

You're being silly if you think it's this simple... The process of determining pass/fail is IMPOSSIBLE to be done in a week (or a month, for that matter) given the methodology used. It's got nothing to do with lack of competition.

 

[sgsmith2_PE]

Regardless of cut score, if you studied and took this thing seriously you'll probably pass...if you winged it more than likely you'll fail. All this cut store stuff is just something else to worry the hell out of you until you get your score...

Just forget about all this until after Christmas!

 

[JoeysVee]

Here is the pink to the post where the guy claims he got a 56/80 and failed.

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?s=&amp...t&p=6600075

If I had to guess I would say he made a math error or it's simply not true. It was posted by a guest....I'm just not buying it.